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Author Topic: The Fallen  (Read 33004 times)

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dragonfly

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The Fallen
« Reply #150 on: October 26, 2006, 11:24:13 PM »
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline Dr Fucktard

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« Reply #151 on: October 27, 2006, 12:08:53 AM »
Quote from: ""dragonfly""
Well, I don't know if I said it earlier or not, but at the Springfield memorial we will have the list available and on hand and folks are free to add to it, to comment on it, to mark names as whatever you want to do but we wont be reading it out loud...

The memorial will be the begining of gathering signatures for the letter of request and it could be a formal begining for the the list of the fallen, who is ever going to really nail it all down anyway, it will be an on-going project...

I'd be happy to see to it that you receive the monthly bodycount statistics from SIBS if you'd like.  :rofl:

Seriously, due to the plethora of intakes over the past several months, we've had to resort to a more zero-tolerance approach lately! I estimate that we end up having to kill at least 3-4 druggies a month, and that's considered a good month. Anyway, I'll send them to you so you can add their names. But NEVER FORGET that their blood was shed for a cause -- the cause of GETTING STRAIGHT.

Put THAT in your pipe and smoke it.  :rofl:
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Offline Valhalla

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« Reply #152 on: October 27, 2006, 01:47:50 AM »
Quote from: ""dragonfly""
Well, I don't know if I said it earlier or not, but at the Springfield memorial we will have the list available and on hand and folks are free to add to it, to comment on it, to mark names as whatever you want to do but we wont be reading it out loud...

The memorial will be the begining of gathering signatures for the letter of request and it could be a formal begining for the the list of the fallen, who is ever going to really nail it all down anyway, it will be an on-going project...


Sounds good to me!
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #153 on: October 27, 2006, 10:48:47 AM »
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formal begining for the the list of the fallen

"The Fallen"?  Dr. Fucktard's "Bodycount" is much more accurate, or maybe "The incomplete bodycount of those rumored to be dead compiled by a 'newcomer' to the bbs for no real reason aside to possibly make them feel productive as if they are contributing to something in some morbidly perverse way".  OK, Valhalla, maybe that was busting your chops alittle too harshly, but I don't like some of your reactions to what I have stated previously, either.

Quote
I think that the people that have passed would probably be glad to be remembered.. so I'm not sure what all the fuss is about.
I also don't understand why it's such an issue that the list be "complete."


You must not know family members of some of the deceased and how they feel about straight and about people like you (and me).  

The issue with the list being complete has been pounded again and again in this thread.  Still don't understand?  Whew, I'll summarize it again for you.   It is not so much the names being read by those that remember the deceased at any memorial that is an issue at this time.  The issue is this "list" of the "fallen" may live on and continue to grow past the pending memorials.  The initiation of such a futile effort is offensively dishonorable to those no longer with us as it is attempting to capture data that is literally impossible to capture.  The data that has been/will be compiled is based largely on second hand/rumored information.  

So basically:
1.) the information documented is questionable at best and
2.) the information documented is statistically only representative of a small fraction of those that have actually passed away.
and just for the fuck of it...
3.) Many of the deceased and families of the deceased would not want to be the subject of contemporary straight research projects.
 
To summarize simply, most data added to the list is bullshit hearsay and furthermore it includes (discludes?) the omission of thousands that SHOULD be on the list if the research was approached correctly (as all bonafied research should be, if you can't do it right, what is the purpose?).

I have stated my opinion, it won't change, there is a right way to go about this and a wrong way.  Listening to survivors, veterans, ex-$tr8s (or whatever) say "Oh I heard Timmy died in a car accident" is not the "right way" of conducting any sort of research resulting in adding Timmy's name to any "list of the fallen".

You remember yours, I'll remember mine.

I have posted my last post in the thread, go ahead---tear my ass up.
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Offline Anonymous

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The Fallen
« Reply #154 on: October 27, 2006, 11:06:11 AM »
Esse Quam Videri. Right on.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #155 on: October 27, 2006, 11:08:09 AM »
Well.... if that really was your last post, which I doubt, than what I have to say won't really matter to you, but just for grins I'll tell you anyway.
As a matter of fact I know several family members of some of the deceased, and oddly enough, they don't share your opinion. I know that must be hard for you to believe though since you seem to think that everything you write is the absolute truth.

I'm not sure why this whole thing has struck such a nerve with you ( and I don't really care) but I would like to offer a suggestion that might help you with your issues....don't attend. Simple really. If this really bothers you so much, there is the solution!

Oh yeah...and one final thought...get over yourself already! You have got waaay to much time on your hands to be devoting so much negative energy to something like this. Get a grip.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #156 on: October 27, 2006, 11:08:32 AM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
Esse Quam Videri. Right on.
Sorry, that was me. And I agree with this 100%:
Quote
I have stated my opinion, it won't change, there is a right way to go about this and a wrong way. Listening to survivors, veterans, ex-$tr8s (or whatever) say "Oh I heard Timmy died in a car accident" is not the "right way" of conducting any sort of research resulting in adding Timmy's name to any "list of the fallen".
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Offline Anonymous

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The Fallen
« Reply #157 on: October 27, 2006, 11:32:19 AM »
Good for you then!
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #158 on: October 27, 2006, 11:33:11 AM »
Yes, good for me.  :roll:
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Offline Anonymous

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The Fallen
« Reply #159 on: October 27, 2006, 11:38:34 AM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
Well.... if that really was your last post, which I doubt, than what I have to say won't really matter to you, but just for grins I'll tell you anyway.
As a matter of fact I know several family members of some of the deceased, and oddly enough, they don't share your opinion. I know that must be hard for you to believe though since you seem to think that everything you write is the absolute truth.

I'm not sure why this whole thing has struck such a nerve with you ( and I don't really care) but I would like to offer a suggestion that might help you with your issues....don't attend. Simple really. If this really bothers you so much, there is the solution!

Oh yeah...and one final thought...get over yourself already! You have got waaay to much time on your hands to be devoting so much negative energy to something like this. Get a grip.


I should shut up, but what the fuck, you make this fun.  In my defense, I have stated time and time again why this strikes a nerve with me, go back and reread my previous posts.  If you really know several family members of the deceased and they share your perspective and not mine, great!  As  this thread reflects, different people have different opinions about this whole thing.  My statements are MY opinion on the matter.  "Time on my hands, negative energy"?  I am simply typing words on my keyboard as are you, I am not building nuclear bombs in the basement for crying out loud.  I have a grip, a grip on the realistic fact that this is a futile attempt.  Again, for me--whether I attend or not, this has nothing to do with reading names at a memorial.  It has to do with the notion that someone thinks they could actually architect some centralized, factual list of deceased teens from straight.  Which is indeed a  noble thought, but with improper direction.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #160 on: October 27, 2006, 12:02:58 PM »
Ah...as I said..I knew that would not be your last post. I bet you're one of those people who takes forever to say something simple, just so you can hear yourself talk....

I've read your posts and know that you attempted to put together your own list and that it turned into a difficult and frustrating experience for you, I get that. What I don't get is why, after you posted your opinion, you continued to present it as the absolute truth.

You may see all this as a futile attempt with improper direction, but not everyone else feels that way, something you don't seem to have any respect for.

I have no problem what so ever with your opinion or your right to state it.

What I do have a problem with is your pompous and condescending manner in which you write it. Oh and please....don't tell me that's the first time you've been told that, cause my money is on the fact that it's just part of your personality!
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Offline starry-eyed pirate

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« Reply #161 on: October 27, 2006, 12:26:14 PM »
Each has their way.  We are only people.  We all want to be free.

Let's not try to convince each other of too much...

Let's kill the program.  Give up coercion and intimidation.

We are the Tao
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If you would have justice in this world, then begin to see that a human being is not a means to some end.  People are not commodities.  When human beings are just to one another government becomes obsolete and real freedom is born; SPIRITUAL ANARCHY.

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #162 on: October 27, 2006, 12:31:30 PM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
I've read your posts and know that you attempted to put together your own list and that it turned into a difficult and frustrating experience for you, I get that. What I don't get is why, after you posted your opinion, you continued to present it as the absolute truth.

You may see all this as a futile attempt with improper direction, but not everyone else feels that way, something you don't seem to have any respect for.

I have no problem what so ever with your opinion or your right to state it.

What I do have a problem with is your pompous and condescending manner in which you write it. Oh and please....don't tell me that's the first time you've been told that, cause my money is on the fact that it's just part of your personality!


How is "go fuck yourself" for pompous and condescending?  Are we judging perceived personalities here or talking about deceased teens?  The very sentence "What I do have a problem with is your pompous and condescending manner in which you write it" is extremely pompous and condescending.  This isn't group, buddy.

My attempt at the list did not become difficult, nor frustrating in the least.  Reread the posts.  The reason I stopped the project is that it was simply not possible to compile such a list unless there is a cross reference a list of all teens from all programs with the social security death index.  There is no other pragmatic way to go about this sort of research project.   I've been there.  No "absolute truth" just facts, convince me differently.  How would you even begin to accomplish such a task with any degree of accuracy?
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #163 on: October 27, 2006, 12:34:04 PM »
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How would you even begin to accomplish such a task with any degree of accuracy?


My bad, I forgot that "accuracy" is of no relavance to this project.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #164 on: October 27, 2006, 12:41:32 PM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote
How would you even begin to accomplish such a task with any degree of accuracy?

My bad, I forgot that "accuracy" is of no relavance to this project.

 :rofl:  :rofl:
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