i'm an incoming senior....to parents interested

[Anonymous]

I've given tours to families who ask some of the kids that hate hyde the most what they thought. They didn't lie. But they weren't obnoxious or childish about it. They were like "I don't like it, but i know it's good for me" or "i'd rather be somewhere else" or "i'm looking at other schools for next year" or something like that. But many of you "guests" on this board are the type of kids like Matt Mumford who would yell as I pass with them "Don't send your kid here!" or "Turn back now!" or "Get out while you can!"

Billy,

Ursus probably goes under a pseudonym in an attempt to maintain the focus on the issues, as distinguished from personal attacks from those who are uncomfortable facing the issues.  

I find myself comparing your honesty and objectivity to Matt Mumford's. Is Matt in London with you and the Hyde gang? This is a purely informative question, and not meant as a personal attack. Really, I am sympathetic to you. I remember that when my college roommate's mother heard that I was fresh out of Hyde and said to me "bad school," I came to Hyde's defense. You might take a look around this forum for my opinion of Hyde now.

Can I pick your brain? What are your thoughts on peer-enforced punishments and peer-enforced correction of "attitudes"?  

Mike

[Anonymous]

I find myself comparing your honesty and objectivity to Matt Mumford's. Is Matt in London with you and the Hyde gang? This is a purely informative question, and not meant as a personal attack. Really, I am sympathetic to you. I remember that when my college roommate's mother heard that I was fresh out of Hyde and said to me "bad school," I came to Hyde's defense. You might take a look around this forum for my opinion of Hyde now.

Can I pick your brain? What are your thoughts on peer-enforced punishments and peer-enforced correction of "attitudes"?  

Mike

No, Matt was not in London with us. He was kicked out earlier in the yer. If by "peer-enforced punishments" you mean something along a senior on a wing telling his wing that we're getting up at 5:30 the next morning to clean (an example of something I've done), it depends. Of course, there's the possibility of someone being spiteful. It's happened to me, I think. It's interesting, for break Mr. Rigney assigned all the seniors to read a book called "Difficult Conversations". Mostly stuff I already knew (there were many Hyde-ish parallels) but reworded to make me understand better. One point brought up was that one can not assume someone's intentions. As sure as we are about them. I'm struggling with my stance on that, but the book's right next to me and it was a thought. On peer-enforced punishment, umm...I feel there's a spectrum of appropriateness and that there needs to be an initial trust that we're all looking out for each other's bests and that's all of our motivations. Of course that's not true though. That trust will be violated, just like your best friend violated your trust one time...but eventually was forgiven. I've been skeptical of some enforcements, as some have questioned mine. When I see something I'm sketchy about, I'll either not be involved or help the person enforcing an accountability and then talk to them afterwards that I disagreed or how they could do it differently UNLESS i grossly disagree, then I pull the person aside (such as "George"(fake name, real person) on my wing has trouble with his highly immature higly energetic-when-he-doesn't-take-his-medication frehsman roommate on my wing. good kid. i like him. but he can get on one's last nerve rather quickly. a couple of times, i've seen "George"'s anger get the best of him and have seen him try to give an accountability where I grossly disagreed. in that case i intervene, ask "George" if i can talk to him for a minute outside. i get him to cool off, calm down, and take another look at the situation such as: his role, his roommate's role, and where his anger is playing the role of enforcer. then we go back in, talk it out, and reevaluate it. and it's fine. so to answer your question (sorry, i go on tangents), it really does depend on the circumstances and my judgment of it. if it's not a HUGE deal, i'm not going to cut down someone's leadership. if someone's arguing over 25 push-ups for being late to in-dorms(i've been guilty of that), and the person giving the accountability seems to have just happened to handle it a different way, i'm going to support him/her in that and then talk to them afterwards.
on peer-assessed evaluation of attitudes...i see it as SOMEONE else(as in another person over the age of maybe 13-14) seeing something in me. like i've said before, too many people take it as a personal attack. even if it is, i stop and look at it. if it MIGHT have some truth in it, i think about it later. then i either take it on or let it go. but i dont' usually get disgruntled and pissed off because someone thinks i have a bad attitude. even if their intentions are totally off, it could still be true. message and messanger. you know the saying. i know, it's hard. sometimes i struggle with it as well.
let's pick away. because if anything i say can clarify what we really do here(especially now, remember this place(i mean woodstock) is SO much different this year than the other years, as i've stated before. and many really need to open their thoughts about a bit more under this new circumstance. i've had to as well.).
btw...europe was awesome. although i'm a bit jetlagged and underslept, it was a fun trip. i still can't believe i wen to the friggin top of the eiffel tower.
- Bill Procida '07

[Antigen]

Sorry, guys, formatting issues will be properly resolved later tonight.

[Anonymous]

I find myself comparing your honesty and objectivity to Matt Mumford's. Is Matt in London with you and the Hyde gang? This is a purely informative question, and not meant as a personal attack. Really, I am sympathetic to you. I remember that when my college roommate's mother heard that I was fresh out of Hyde and said to me "bad school," I came to Hyde's defense. You might take a look around this forum for my opinion of Hyde now.

Can I pick your brain? What are your thoughts on peer-enforced punishments and peer-enforced correction of attitudes"  

Mike

No, Matt was not in London with us. He was kicked out earlier in the yer. If by "peer-enforced punishments" you mean something along a senior on a wing telling his wing that we're getting up at 5:30 the next morning to clean (an example of something I've done), it depends. Of course, there's the possibility of someone being spiteful. It's happened to me, I think. It's interesting, for break Mr. Rigney assigned all the seniors to read a book called "Difficult Conversations". Mostly stuff I already knew (there were many Hyde-ish parallels) but reworded to make me understand better. One point brought up was that one can not assume someone's intentions. As sure as we are about them. I'm struggling with my stance on that, but the book's right next to me and it was a thought. On peer-enforced punishment, umm...I feel there's a spectrum of appropriateness and that there needs to be an initial trust that we're all looking out for each other's bests and that's all of our motivations. Of course that's not true though. That trust will be violated, just like your best friend violated your trust one time...but eventually was forgiven. I've been skeptical of some enforcements, as some have questioned mine. When I see something I'm sketchy about, I'll either not be involved or help the person enforcing an accountability and then talk to them afterwards that I disagreed or how they could do it differently UNLESS i grossly disagree, then I pull the person aside (such as "George"(fake name, real person) on my wing has trouble with his highly immature higly energetic-when-he-doesn't-take-his-medication frehsman roommate on my wing. good kid. i like him. but he can get on one's last nerve rather quickly. a couple of times, i've seen "George"'s anger get the best of him and have seen him try to give an accountability where I grossly disagreed. in that case i intervene, ask "George" if i can talk to him for a minute outside. i get him to cool off, calm down, and take another look at the situation such as: his role, his roommate's role, and where his anger is playing the role of enforcer. then we go back in, talk it out, and reevaluate it. and it's fine. so to answer your question (sorry, i go on tangents), it really does depend on the circumstances and my judgment of it. if it's not a HUGE deal, i'm not going to cut down someone's leadership. if someone's arguing over 25 push-ups for being late to in-dorms(i've been guilty of that), and the person giving the accountability seems to have just happened to handle it a different way, i'm going to support him/her in that and then talk to them afterwards.
on peer-assessed evaluation of attitudes...i see it as SOMEONE else(as in another person over the age of maybe 13-14) seeing something in me. like i've said before, too many people take it as a personal attack. even if it is, i stop and look at it. if it MIGHT have some truth in it, i think about it later. then i either take it on or let it go. but i dont' usually get disgruntled and pissed off because someone thinks i have a bad attitude. even if their intentions are totally off, it could still be true. message and messanger. you know the saying. i know, it's hard. sometimes i struggle with it as well.
let's pick away. because if anything i say can clarify what we really do here(especially now, remember this place(i mean woodstock) is SO much different this year than the other years, as i've stated before. and many really need to open their thoughts about a bit more under this new circumstance. i've had to as well.).
btw...europe was awesome. although i'm a bit jetlagged and underslept, it was a fun trip. i still can't believe i wen to the friggin top of the eiffel tower.
- Bill Procida '07

Bill,

Let me start by saying how impressed I am by your courage. You?ve come right into the lions? den. I?m also impressed by Hyde?s courage in allowing you to participate in this forum. Respectfully, then, I submit my rejoinder.

My immediate impression is that your results are skewed. From the point of view of criminology and penology, your examples of peer-enforced punishment are at the bottom of the ladder; they do not even entail legal action. Similarly, your examples of peer evaluations (?truth over harmony?) present them in the best light. But I'll play along, because a strong case can be made even against them.    

I would characterize 'truth over harmony' as a desire for obedience, which expresses itself in various forms of intensity: screaming, cursing, reviling, and least of all rebuking. Its essence is a violent and combative emotion, even when the result does not inflict damage.
   
Consider your example of rebuke. This belongs to the class of transgressions in which there is no action. You might suppose that I, in urging you not to rebuke a fellow student, am moved by the shame and the pain that your words would cause him when he heard them. But I am concerned not only with the one who is rebuked, but also with the one who rebukes, who should not be intolerant and hot-tempered. My concern is ethical, control and catharsis of one?s emotions, as well as practical, prevention of harm to one's fellow man; it is, therefore, concerned with the confronter as well as the confronted.

It is along such lines that I justify a general prohibition against presuming to rebuke a fellow student. And although you will not be punished for it, still such conduct indicates an exceedingly bad disposition. One should rather practice forbearance in all everyday matters. For the intelligent realize that these are trivial things and not worth seeking confrontation over. This prohibition is thus designed not only to promote courtesy or civility to others, but also to cultivate moral perfection, to develop a transcendent perspective which makes pettiness and arrogance self-evidently foolish.

I would argue a fortiori against peer-enforced punishments that do not consist of words only. Getting back to your reply, you say that sometimes you question the fairness of this or that punishment. Such criticisms are more local and superficial than I hoped for. Actually, I was hoping that you could explain to me the necessity for peer-enforced punishment at all. Of what value is it to the child who punishes? To the child who is punished? As a parent, I would be deeply troubled by the knowledge that my child was being educated to mete out punishments to his peers?or to accept punishments from his peers, for that matter.

Mike

[Ursus]

By getting kids to focus on the "local and superficial," they are stifling focus on the bigger and broader picture.  I have always found it most remarkable that, not only is the impetus to nurture critical thinking utterly absent at Hyde, it is downright squelched when but a hint dares venture forth...

Oh, yeah, what am I talking about...

[Anonymous]

By getting kids to focus on the "local and superficial," they are stifling focus on the bigger and broader picture.  I have always found it most remarkable that, not only is the impetus to nurture critical thinking utterly absent at Hyde, it is downright squelched when but a hint dares venture forth...

Oh, yeah, what am I talking about...

"crtitical thinking" and Hyde do not belong in the same sentence.  When I was at Hyde there was absolutely no permission to think critically in a truly constructive way.  I saw lots of criticism, but not critical thinking.  I saw lots of group think, but not critical thinking.  Truly independent thinking?  Not at Hyde.  Nearly everytime I tried to assert my independent views I was told that I had to use terms that were in the Hyde dictionary and no others.  If I didn't speak like a Hyde robot it didn't count.  So much for critical thinking.

[Ursus]

Getting back to your reply, you say that sometimes you question the fairness of this or that punishment. Such criticisms are more local and superficial than I hoped for. Actually, I was hoping that you could explain to me the necessity for peer-enforced punishment at all. Of what value is it to the child who punishes? To the child who is punished? As a parent, I would be deeply troubled by the knowledge that my child was being educated to mete out punishments to his peers?or to accept punishments from his peers, for that matte

Well, Mike, at least he tried to answer one of your questions.  It seems that each and every one of us (outside of you) has batted a big fat zero with Billy.  Moreover, it certainly appears that he hasn't bothered to peruse this forum one wee bit.  I wonder just how much that has to do with his coaching.

[Ursus]

...let's pick away. because if anything i say can clarify what we really do here(especially now, remember this place(i mean woodstock) is SO much different this year than the other years, as i've stated before. and many really need to open their thoughts about a bit more under this new circumstance. i've had to as well.).

Okay, let's pick away.  Let's assume a leopard can REALLY change its spots in a matter of one (1) year.  What would you say are the major areas of "change" in Hyde's (Woodstock) operation relative to last year at this time

[Anonymous]

trying the optional (y) because apparantly it might be good for me to try going by bill to grow up. i'm giving it a trial run.
ursus, i know it's hard to believe, but i've gone through a similar over-the-summer change. i went from not going out at all, still feeling awkward around new people, and not getting a taste of  "regular-outside-of-hyde teenage experiences". but last spring break and this summer, i did turn it around. i got out of myself, got over my fear of meeting new people, and ended up being able to walk into any new group and usually get an extremely positive reaction. i went to american university for an overnight visit with a friend of mine who graduated here my freshman year. her sorority was hosting their crush party of the semester the night i was there. i went, and they loved me.
so has hyde WOODSTOCK(i can not attest for bath whatsoever) made this kind of change. laura gauld, although i may hate her being as conservative as she is (she killed halloween, isn't big on letting us chest paint at basketball games, and no limos at prom this year), she has changed things for this campus for the better, things dunc just couldn't do. between strategical moves such as changing the energy of campus pattern by switching the dorms and the student-run store locations, as well as changing faculty spots (like Kevin folan being the new dean from bath), and the way things like Senior Evals are being done. there's much more of a positive vibe on campus now-a-days. part of that has to do with the Hyde @ 40 campaign. since we recieved moeny from that, there was less of a pressure to have a bunch acceptances by accpeting some kids that definitely weren't ready for hyde yet or kids that needed somethign different. because let's face it, logistically, you need to have kids to have the school, and when you're a young school, exceptions are made to start yourself. so now we have the same amount of kids at this point in the year, even tough we started with a less-than-usual number. and that was fine. we've had more willing participants. as a matter of fact, we have had the least amount of withdrawls at this point in the year out of my four years here. i believe the number's 15 or under. it's great. and so the campus has changed, as hard as it is to believe.
a fellow senior the other night, while talking to a few about my frustration of other people seeing me the way i used to be, said "you can't pull an Amy Farkas change overnight and expect people to believe you right away." (an amy farkas change means making a drastic change in a positive way with yourself in a very short period of time, such as a summer, and in her case, in terms of self-respect and acting more like an independent woman.) i think that's valid here. it is understandable that it's hard to believe that woodstock's changed that much in a summer, but it has. but i can see why people would be skeptical. on top of that, i feel we've had less (not none, just less) of those incidents that are GROSSLY mishandled. it happens (here and any other school where human beings are in charge), but it's been less this year. any other questions i'll answer, but please be patient with time. i've only just gotten on since coming back from break.

also, laura gauld said "bill...i heard you're fighting the good fight on the fornits website." she probably heard from warnick, who i was talking to about my frustrations about some of the posters onthe site. i have a problem with this. because i'm not trying to fight anyone, but rather, to educate and inform. because i'm the one that's here right now. i know the changes that have been made. i know what's different from the other 3 years. i know the GOOD and the BAD.  and i'm not afraid to say the bad, but i will not hesitate to say what's good. i am someone who has finally come up with his own principles and has altered the tools(the words, principles, philosophies of hyde) hyde as given me into what i personally believe. not all of it corresponds with hyde. and that's okay. i feel i take a pretty objective view. and that's why i post. not to fight. and i will be telling her the same thing i'm telling ya'll. because i dont' want to be thought of as hyde's foot soldier. but i am a supporter of what a STUDENT can do (not what the school can do, b/c without a somewhat willing participant, there's only so much we can do) here for themselves. ahhh....i'm glad i got that off my chest. that's been bugging me the last few days.

asides from this, i'm really hyped. i got into my number one school: New York University!!!!!!@!@!@! so i've been excited about that. trying to find time for it, i've read about a page and a half to 2 pages of gary eskow's paper. i'm working on it.
- Bill(y) Procida '07 NYU class of '11!!!

[Anonymous]

trying the optional (y) because apparantly it might be good for me to try going by bill to grow up. i'm giving it a trial run.
ursus, i know it's hard to believe, but i've gone through a similar over-the-summer change. i went from not going out at all, still feeling awkward around new people, and not getting a taste of  "regular-outside-of-hyde teenage experiences". but last spring break and this summer, i did turn it around. i got out of myself, got over my fear of meeting new people, and ended up being able to walk into any new group and usually get an extremely positive reaction. i went to american university for an overnight visit with a friend of mine who graduated here my freshman year. her sorority was hosting their crush party of the semester the night i was there. i went, and they loved me.
so has hyde WOODSTOCK(i can not attest for bath whatsoever) made this kind of change. laura gauld, although i may hate her being as conservative as she is (she killed halloween, isn't big on letting us chest paint at basketball games, and no limos at prom this year), she has changed things for this campus for the better, things dunc just couldn't do. between strategical moves such as changing the energy of campus pattern by switching the dorms and the student-run store locations, as well as changing faculty spots (like Kevin folan being the new dean from bath), and the way things like Senior Evals are being done. there's much more of a positive vibe on campus now-a-days. part of that has to do with the Hyde @ 40 campaign. since we recieved moeny from that, there was less of a pressure to have a bunch acceptances by accpeting some kids that definitely weren't ready for hyde yet or kids that needed somethign different. because let's face it, logistically, I want you to have kids to have the school, and when you're a young school, exceptions are made to start yourself. so now we have the same amount of kids at this point in the year, even tough we started with a less-than-usual number. and that was fine. we've had more willing participants. as a matter of fact, we have had the least amount of withdrawls at this point in the year out of my four years here. i believe the number's 15 or under. it's great. and so the campus has changed, as hard as it is to believe.
a fellow senior the other night, while talking to a few about my frustration of other people seeing me the way i used to be, said "you can't pull an Amy Farkas change overnight and expect people to believe you right away." (an amy farkas change means making a drastic change in a positive way with yourself in a very short period of time, such as a summer, and in her case, in terms of self-respect and acting more like an independent woman.) i think that's valid here. it is understandable that it's hard to believe that woodstock's changed that much in a summer, but it has. but i can see why people would be skeptical. on top of that, i feel we've had less (not none, just less) of those incidents that are GROSSLY mishandled. it happens (here and any other school where human beings are in charge), but it's been less this year. any other questions i'll answer, but please be patient with time. i've only just gotten on since coming back from break.

also, laura gauld said "bill...i heard you're fighting the good fight on the fornits website." she probably heard from warnick, who i was talking to about my frustrations about some of the posters onthe site. i have a problem with this. because i'm not trying to fight anyone, but rather, to educate and inform. because i'm the one that's here right now. i know the changes that have been made. i know what's different from the other 3 years. i know the GOOD and the BAD.  and i'm not afraid to say the bad, but i will not hesitate to say what's good. i am someone who has finally come up with his own principles and has altered the tools(the words, principles, philosophies of hyde) hyde as given me into what i personally believe. not all of it corresponds with hyde. and that's okay. i feel i take a pretty objective view. and that's why i post. not to fight. and i will be telling her the same thing i'm telling ya'll. because i dont' want to be thought of as hyde's foot soldier. but i am a supporter of what a STUDENT can do (not what the school can do, b/c without a somewhat willing participant, there's only so much we can do) here for themselves. ahhh....i'm glad i got that off my chest. that's been bugging me the last few days.

asides from this, i'm really hyped. i got into my number one school: New York University!!!!!!@!@!@! so i've been excited about that. trying to find time for it, i've read about a page and a half to 2 pages of gary eskow's paper. i'm working on it.
- Bill(y) Procida '07 NYU class of '11!!!

Good for you.  I'm pleased for you and applaud your good story.

But I know for a fact that there are lots of very bad stories that come out of Hyde.  I've lost count of the number of Hyde students who have left or gotten booted out, had a hard time in college and dropped out, relapsed, etc.  Granted, sometimes this was the result of the students' bad behavior and, as Hyde likes to say, attitude..  But I know a bunch of kids who  started at Hyde with real serious problems (emotional and drug) that were completely mishandled by Hyde.  Hyde is like a dinosaur compared to other schools I know that take the same kind of kid.  I'm glad it has worked for you.  Unfortunately that doesn't make up for the large number of Hyde disasters.  And, believe me, Hyde has lots of disasters it needs to account for.

[Anonymous]

[laura gauld said "bill...i heard you're fighting the good fight on the fornits website." she probably heard from warnick, who i was talking to about my frustrations about some of the posters onthe site.[/quote]

Good for you.  I'm pleased for you and applaud your good story.

But I know for a fact that there are lots of very bad stories that come out of Hyde.  I've lost count of the number of Hyde students who have left or gotten booted out, had a hard time in college and dropped out, relapsed, etc.  Granted, sometimes this was the result of the students' bad behavior and, as Hyde likes to say, attitude..  But I know a bunch of kids who  started at Hyde with real serious problems (emotional and drug) that were completely mishandled by Hyde.  Hyde is like a dinosaur compared to other schools I know that take the same kind of kid.  I'm glad it has worked for you.  Unfortunately that doesn't make up for the large number of Hyde disasters.  And, believe me, Hyde has lots of disasters it needs to account for.[/quote]

So, Laura Gauld and somebody named Warnick are concerned about this web site.  I guess we now have their attention.  I wonder if any of the widespread criticism of Hyde concerns them?  It ought to.  I can't imagine Hyde ever expected this public relations nightmare.  Is there any chance Hyde will take a hard look at itself as a result?

[Ursus]

So, Laura Gauld and somebody named Warnick are concerned about this web site. I guess we now have their attention. I wonder if any of the widespread criticism of Hyde concerns them? It ought to. I can't imagine Hyde ever expected this public relations nightmare. Is there any chance Hyde will take a hard look at itself as a result?

I most seriously doubt it.  Historically, the way repressive institutions and regimes have usually dealt with the discontent from the rabble-rousing indigents has been through a policy of benign neglect.  Hyde is no different.  They believe that people will spill their guts until they get it out of their system and are too depleted of emotional energy to continue.

My impression from going back through the threads is that it would appear most people come here and usually vent for about 100 posts or so, if they are truly outraged enough, and then go on with their lives, occasionally returning from time to time.  Very few people stick around for much longer than a year.  Although this would appear to comport with Hyde's preferred stance, it also does speak volumes, literally, of the number of people unhappy, not too mention traumatized, by Hyde's treatment of them or their children.

[Anonymous]

hyde faculty and administrators have been knowing. they don't really care much, honestly. i think they should care a little though. and look through. not to see the bad publicity and worry about it. trust me, they're not worried. and nothing you say will. because many of you(not all, but looking through other threads, i see a trend)there are many disrespectful and immature posts that wouldn't bother anyone. but there are some legit pieces of feedback some could get from this.
yes, there are PLENTY of inappropriate stories from hyde. along with many other schools, many of which have a forum on fornits. ask people what goes on at Swift River or the Family Foundation school. worse worse things happen there more often. like i said in the last post, grossly mishandled situations have decreased tremendously this year. the other 3 years i've been here, there were many bad situations handled badly by parents, students, and faculty. hyde admins and people know about the situations. they work on some, and sweep others under the rug. no school does it right, unfortunately.
today during Senior Evals, which we've kind of started, LG brought up how she didn't know what kind of graduate each of us would be. and that she's spoken with graduates and students who have left hyde. some were bad convos, some great. but she will talk to you. she's not mccraan. but it's hard to take seriously those that bash hyde on the internet under anonymous names because they are not proud of what they say here. i've heard people say on here "you don't want others to be able to find what you say on here" well then don't post it. be proud of what you say. raise your hand high or not at all. raise it like you're proud of it. and if you're  not, don't say it.
and as for something on another thread about hyde only posting the good things about themselves in terms of parent surveys and what not...what school, company, etc. posts negative comments about themselves as publicity? (except the movie "Jackass"). honestly, expect something realistic please.
and as i say now, i've said before, and many times...it's different this year. please be a little more open.
- Bill(y) Procida '07 NYU '11

[Anonymous]

it's hard to take seriously those that bash hyde on the internet under anonymous names because they are not proud of what they say here. i've heard people say on here "you don't want others to be able to find what you say on here" well then don't post it. be proud of what you say. raise your hand high or not at all. raise it like you're proud of it. and if you're  not, don't say it.

- Bill(y) Procida '07 NYU '11

Employers are now googling candidates.  Nobody wants their name to come up in connection with a place like Hyde.  I posted quite a bit about a year ago and pretty much got everything off my chest that I wanted to.  I had no desire to engage anyone at Hyde in any sort of dialogue - although that did, to an extent, occur.  Frankly, I couldn't care less what Hyde thinks at this point.  And I don't care whether they're concerned about the negative publicity or not.  The anonymity of the internet is a wonderful thing when writing about the traumatic experiences of the past.

It may be hard for you to take seriously any Hyde bashing that doesn't include someone's actual name, but rest assured, people do.  Too much of it obviously comes from the heart and most people do understand why people don't put their real name on internet boards.  If you're not willing to give it any credence, well, that's not our problem and I hate to break it you, but no one gives a shit.  We played by Hyde's rules when they controlled the dialogue.  Now they have to live with discussions in forums where they can't control things.  Maybe it concerns them, maybe it doesn't (I have it on good authority they they are indeed quite concerned).   But that's the way it goes.

Best of luck to you, NYU's a great school!

[Ursus]

Hi Billy, sorry I wasn't able to address your post more specifically earlier, but something came up...  Congratulations on getting into NYU!  :tup:     I'm sure you will have a lot of fun and your world will surely open up immensely being in NYC.  I used to work a bit north of the main campus, a block from Union Square, as well just west in the Village, on 11th and 4th.  I have many fond memories of that time...

i am someone who has finally come up with his own principles and has altered the tools(the words, principles, philosophies of hyde) hyde as given me into what i personally believe. not all of it corresponds with hyde. and that's okay. i feel i take a pretty objective view.

I have concerns about your post which stem from your focus on relatively petty issues as being proof or at least indication of your ability to see things more objectively...  Issues such as Laura Gauld's "kill{ing} halloween, {not being} big on letting us chest paint at basketball games, and no{t allowing} limos at prom this year" are hardly elements at the core of Hyde's so-called "philosophy."  My disappointment is along the same lines as Mike's, when you responded to his question regarding elements of policy and personal thoughts relevant to "Brother's Keeper," i.e., peers passing judgment on and meting out punishment on each other.

You claim that you don't agree with everything, that you pick and choose as you see fit as per what sits right with you, but by and large, it really looks like you've swallowed the whole spiel, kit-and-kaboodle, hook, line, and sinker.  This is why Laura Gauld is so proud of you, why she tells you, "bill...i heard you're fighting the good fight on the fornits website."  She understands full well the reason you are here, which you put so eloquently as "to educate and inform."  You really are, as far as Hyde is concerned, "hyde's foot soldier."

And with regard to Hyde's having changed tremendously this past year:  I am sure that they have made improvements, some of which you enumerated, but again, my same comment as earlier...  I find you are focusing unduly on minor details as the basis for your proof.  Putting an additional spot here and there does not change the leopard's overall pattern.

trying to find time for it, i've read about a page and a half to 2 pages of gary eskow's paper. i'm working on it.

Good show, Billy!  Your efforts are appreciated.  Do peruse the threads here a bit as well, you might find it enlightening, and you might also find some more material to continue "fighting the good fight on the fornits website."        Kind regards, Urs :em: