Author Topic: Teen Screen: Normal Kids Labeled Mentally Ill  (Read 9152 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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Teen Screen: Normal Kids Labeled Mentally Ill
« Reply #15 on: August 28, 2006, 12:37:54 PM »
Quote from: ""Deborah""
According to the "experts" ADD/HD is not a Learning Disability.


And indeed it's not. I have a son who has always been very energetic and very curious. His teachers kept asking us to get him tested for ADD/ADHD, since kindergarten. He was tested several times over the years, but one of the key diagnostic indicators was always school performance. So a kid who always got straight A's just didn't quite fit the ADD/ADHD profile.

After years of this b.s., and years of me believing it was a made-up disorder (a decade ago it was ONLY diagnosed in the U.S. and in no other country), my son visited a therapist who thought maybe he could benefit from some meds. My son was willing to try and immediately felt better, more able to relax, not pace around the house, etc.

I have heard that ADD/ADHD kids tend to be above average intelligence, but I don't know if there's research that backs that up.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #16 on: August 28, 2006, 12:42:21 PM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
My son was willing to try and immediately felt better, more able to relax, not pace around the house, etc.

Why not try teaching him some coping skills instead of drugging him?

Quote
I have heard that ADD/ADHD kids tend to be above average intelligence, but I don't know if there's research that backs that up.


I've heard that too.  Mostly from parents of so called ADD/HD kids.
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Offline Deborah

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« Reply #17 on: August 28, 2006, 03:01:04 PM »
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/series/sr_10/sr10_227.pdf

Learning Disability and Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (Table 3)

a.. + Almost 5 million children 3-17 years of age (8%) had a learning disability; 10% of boys had a learning disability compared with 6% of girls.

b.. + Four and one-half million children 3-17 years of age (7%) had Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD). Boys were more than twice as likely as girls to have ADHD (10% and 4%).

c.. + In families with an income of less than $20,000, the percentage of children with a learning disability was more than that of children in families with an income of $75,000 or more (12% and 8%).

d.. + When compared with children with an excellent or very good health status, children with a fair or poor health status were five times as likely to have a learning disability (30% and 6%) and more than twice as likely to have ADHD (16% and 7%).

A child with genuine learning difficulties should not have to be dx'd and drugged in order to get accomodations. Unfortunately, this is too often the case. It appears to be the first line of "treatment" rather than a last resort when all other factors have been exhausted.
The stakes are too high when you're dealing with a drug similar to cocaine, with all the negative side effects.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #18 on: August 28, 2006, 03:49:29 PM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
Why not try teaching him some coping skills instead of drugging him?


Oh sure, like learning coping skills is such a piece of cake. Hey, I'd like to learn some of those skils too. Where do I sign up? Like I said, I fought this ADD b.s. for many years, thinking it was a bogus disorder. HE wanted to try meds, HE is the one who says they are helping him. I still  think it might be a bogus disorder, or if it's genuine, it is grossly overdiagnosed. But I'm not going to argue with what works for him. It's his choice.
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Offline Nihilanthic

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« Reply #19 on: August 28, 2006, 08:57:34 PM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Deborah""
According to the "experts" ADD/HD is not a Learning Disability.

And indeed it's not. I have a son who has always been very energetic and very curious. His teachers kept asking us to get him tested for ADD/ADHD, since kindergarten. He was tested several times over the years, but one of the key diagnostic indicators was always school performance. So a kid who always got straight A's just didn't quite fit the ADD/ADHD profile.

After years of this b.s., and years of me believing it was a made-up disorder (a decade ago it was ONLY diagnosed in the U.S. and in no other country), my son visited a therapist who thought maybe he could benefit from some meds. My son was willing to try and immediately felt better, more able to relax, not pace around the house, etc.

I have heard that ADD/ADHD kids tend to be above average intelligence, but I don't know if there's research that backs that up.


I think ADD is just a way of saying theyre less capable of feigning interest and are more susceptable to boredom than most kids.

Why do I say that? Im (quite literaly) a Genius and public school bored the ever loving hell out of me. I was so far above everyone else, including the teachers, I really learned more slacking off in a library reading random shit, or getting on the internet.

This sucked becuase when I go to college and they actually teach you shit I had to re-adjust to it, but I like it a lot more. Mostly because Im actually able to hold a conversation/debate (not a pissing contest or RESPECT MY AUTHORITAH schtick) with the teacher/professor and the students who actually comprehend the material, whatever it may be. And I dont have dumbfucks iwth inferiority complexes telling me Im too smart, because they dont go to college! :D

I think for ADD kids the best thing to do is give them a college-type environment, intead of the current "school" environment, which is more of a holding pen where children and adolescents set up their own social hierarchy and... well, get all that social bullshit in the way of the education. I could not STAND highschool and the thought of going back to one now (now that Im 21, and Im not conditioned to put up with the shit I had to as a teenager) would piss me off more than bush being elected for a third term.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #20 on: August 29, 2006, 12:04:21 PM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""
disorder of written expression, disorder of mathematics, and so forth.

Omg.  Disorder of mathematics???  

Quote
It's mindless hysteria to say that a school that says a kid is dyslexic, or similar, is classifying a "normal" kid as "mentally ill."

Julie

I think it's mindless hysteria to diagnose all these kids with any one or more of these "disorders".   IMO, most of them are crap, catch-all phrases for normal kids who aren't behaving as desired.


These learning disability labels aren't about kids' behavior.

Kids with learning disabilities process information differently from "normal" kids.  Kids with different learning disabilities process information differently from each other.  Kids with the same learning disability process information in similar ways.

When a specialist identifies a label for these kids and gives a whole profile of in-depth test results, the special ed teachers and the classroom teacher then have some idea of which ways information has to be presented differently for this kid for the kid to learn.

If you don't have the formal labels, the teachers and other classmates still label the LD kid.  They label him lazy and dumb.

When you have a formal label, there are all kinds of specialized curricula that have been designed to help students that have that particular label learn---usually learning at the same rate as their peers, now that their needs are being met.

Sure, they're not caught up immediately in the area where they have an LD.  But there are specialized curricula for each LD, and within that, there are specialized strategies for whichever quirks each child has about how he learns.

LD labels aren't about modifying a kid's behavior.

LD labels are about getting each child what he needs so he can learn and not feel lazy, stupid, and worthless.

Children and parents frequently welcome these labels because it means the teacher quits thinking the kid is lazy and stupid, and the kid starts getting kinds of help that, amazingly, start him learning and making progress again.

My Katie has a disorder of written expression.  A lot of kids with pediatric bipolar also have a learning disability.

What the label meant was instead of being thought a lazy kid, instead of having to put up with the other children teasing her for being a slowpoke and calling her stupid, they got her a special ed teacher who did a pull-out class for handwriting.

In the pull-out class, they used a specialized curriculum that taught in ways that worked for Katie.  Her handwriting went from completely illegible, even to her, to legible, with identifiable capitals and small letters, used appropriately, that uses the lines on the paper appropriately.

Her math improved tremendously because she started being able to keep track of what numbers were in what columns, so she could keep track of what step she was doing and get the right answers.

She got special pencil grips that helped her control her pencil better.

The teacher got more patient about her homework.  She still had to do it, but she got more time to get it turned in.

The teacher got on top of other kids teasing her and nipped it in the bud whenever it started to come up.  The teacher handling it properly made it almost completely stop---and what didn't stop, Katie can cope with, now that it's not overwhelming.  There's also less to trigger it, now that she's catching up.

The teacher quit blaming her spelling on lack of study or lack of effort and started writing tips on her papers to help her learn the spelling words.  Consequently, her spelling started improving where before it had seemed hopeless.

Getting the label was a godsend for Katie, because once the teachers knew what was wrong, they quit jumping to conclusions about her motivation and the specific label told them how to help her, specifically, learn.

LD kids process information in different ways, because some pathways other kids use to learn don't work correctly.

LD kids can still learn, teachers just have to use different learning pathways and different techniques to get the information into their little heads.

LD kids usually desperately want to learn and are incredibly frustrated that they can't "get it" like the other kids.

The specific LD label lets special ed and classroom teachers know what learning pathways don't work correctly for that kid, and what package of techniques to use to get around the block for that individual kid.

Kids with a particular label aren't cookie cutouts, of course.  But a particular label narrows down the pack of specialized techniques and strategies to try with that kid and helps the teachers find a way to reach that kid faster.

Katie, we parents, her teachers, and her school are grateful for that label because she's learning again and it's like a light turned on in a dark room.

You don't see websites with huge numbers of LD labeled kids screaming about how they were traumatized for life by getting specialized curricula and extra help with the areas that were kicking their butts in school.

These kids aren't coming out of being labeled with PTSD and permanent scars, they're coming out of school with an education.

Given that, maybe you should reserve your uninformed opinion and learn something before expounding your anti-wisdom on the subject.

It's people like you who, by denying the reality of these kids' learning differences, perpetuate the myth that the kids are just lazy and stupid and either won't or can't learn.

Julie
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #21 on: August 29, 2006, 12:43:39 PM »
I understand why you feel so strongly about this, but it's all a matter of opinion I guess.  I just don't buy it and stand by my catch-all statement.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #22 on: August 29, 2006, 02:36:17 PM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
I understand why you feel so strongly about this, but it's all a matter of opinion I guess.  I just don't buy it and stand by my catch-all statement.


That's a more civil response than mine.  You make me ashamed of myself for being so harsh.

Think of your average schoolteacher.  They see all kinds of kids and have their prejudices and preconceptions just like anybody else.  They also are accustomed to dealing with mindless red tape or they wouldn't ever have been able to sit through all those terminally boring and mostly useless education classes in college.

If you stick a label on a kid's learning differences, and hand the teacher a manual on how to teach to those differences; if you give specialist status to teachers that learn extra proficiency in recognizing and teaching to learning differences, you get those kids learning differences accommodated in ways you never would if you didn't have a label for it and laws specifying the kids with a label get their differences accommodated.

The end result is more kids succeeding in school--kids who would have just given up in frustration.

The LD labels aren't mental illnesses, they're ways of ensuring that kids who weren't getting what they needed so they could learn, do get the extra help that makes all the difference in the world.

I used to expect the kids who got special ed services to be badly stigmatized--the way they were when I was growing up.

My daughter's school works very hard to avoid that.  Successfully.

Nothing is 100% satisfactory, but Katie's learning a lot faster with the label and accommodations than she was without them, she's a lot less frustrated, and the special ed. teachers are really nice to her so she looks forward to working with them.

If it's imaginary bullshit, it's imaginary bullshit that sure works--with a happy, mainstreamed kid rather than a scared, isolated, overcompliant, or traumatized one.

Julie
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #23 on: August 29, 2006, 04:09:27 PM »
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""
I think for ADD kids the best thing to do is give them a college-type environment, intead of the current "school" environment, which is more of a holding pen where children and adolescents set up their own social hierarchy and... well, get all that social bullshit in the way of the education. I could not STAND highschool and the thought of going back to one now (now that Im 21, and Im not conditioned to put up with the shit I had to as a teenager) would piss me off more than bush being elected for a third term.


I totally agree, but how do you give a college-type environment to a kid who is not yet that age? Skipping ahead and starting college very young is socially awkward and not something I'd want for my kid.

My son (the one who takes ADD meds because HE says they help him) also hates high school, is totally bored there, doesn't have to work very hard at it and also hates the social b.s. you mentioned. He refers to the place as "daycare," and I think that's a pretty accurate name for it.
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Offline Nihilanthic

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« Reply #24 on: August 29, 2006, 07:11:10 PM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""
I think for ADD kids the best thing to do is give them a college-type environment, intead of the current "school" environment, which is more of a holding pen where children and adolescents set up their own social hierarchy and... well, get all that social bullshit in the way of the education. I could not STAND highschool and the thought of going back to one now (now that Im 21, and Im not conditioned to put up with the shit I had to as a teenager) would piss me off more than bush being elected for a third term.

I totally agree, but how do you give a college-type environment to a kid who is not yet that age? Skipping ahead and starting college very young is socially awkward and not something I'd want for my kid.

My son (the one who takes ADD meds because HE says they help him) also hates high school, is totally bored there, doesn't have to work very hard at it and also hates the social b.s. you mentioned. He refers to the place as "daycare," and I think that's a pretty accurate name for it.


Youre not socially akward in public school??  :rofl:

College age people would deal with a kid or a teen a lot better than a highschool would. I wouldnt go back to one without a tazer or a fire extinguisher sized bottle of mace, I HATE the way the little shits act, and quite a few of the teachers too for that matter.
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Offline TimeBomb

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« Reply #25 on: August 30, 2006, 08:18:12 AM »
I suppose they would have slapped me with the ADD label, had it existed when I was in school. They use to say I was "staring off into space", and assumed that I had a problem paying attention. But no one could understand why I was acing every test that I took.

The truth is, I was bored to tears. And aside from the fact that I had a real problem sleeping at night, public school really did nothing to foster individuality. College is a little better at that, but there's still the idea of group thinking, that everyone learns in the same way, at the same pace.

By the time I finally broke free from the programs, I was living on my own at age 16, working a night job, bussing tables, but really making pretty good money. But, then that was when all the trauma of the previous few years hit me, and it took about 10 years for me to come to terms with all that.

Anyway, after taking a stab at college, I finally found out that organized education just wasn't for me, and I don't think it's for everyone. But, nowadays (last time I checked) a minor can't even drop out of school in the state of Florida without losing their driver's license. So, you have to conform, or else you're not only labeled as antisocial, but you are actually outcast, by losing your independence and means of making a living.

What the hell ever happened to individuality? Some of the most successful people in history are the ones that broke free from the masses, and made their own way.
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ick, tick.

Offline Anonymous

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I think you're all wrong!
« Reply #26 on: August 31, 2006, 12:10:52 AM »
I think American schools have been changed to "dumb down" and to program "stay in line and don't question the status quo".  Haven't you guys ever seen that 8th grade test from the early 1900's?  I doubt that many high school seniors, or many of us, today could pass it.

From one of my articles, "One Alternative Is the Constitution Party":

On the DVD, Pratt says, ?Liberty and literacy go hand in hand.  You can?t have a free people that are ignorant.  You?ve got to be able to read.  Our forebears ([forefathers and foremothers] kept reinforcing literacy. . . Religion, morality and knowledge was the anchor of the American culture from 1620 to 1936.  Something happened after that.?

Pratt reveals, ?It wasn?t until the demise of the McGuffy Readers in 1936 that religion and morality were abandoned in our schools to be replaced by a content of trivia and amusement.  The McGuffy was way beyond anything in grade school today.  It taught it all ? religion, morality and knowledge.? 

Pratt lists Benjamin Franklin?s five fundamentals of all sound religions, which he explains are contained within most Christian and non-Christian religions today:

1.  There exists a creator who made all things, and mankind should recognize and worship him.

2.  The Creator has revealed a moral code of behavior for happy living which distinguishes right from wrong.

3.  The Creator holds mankind responsible for the way they treat each other.

4.  All mankind live beyond this life.

5.  In the next life individuals are judged for their conduct in this one.

Full article:
http://www.sierratimes.com/05/08/04/63_ ... _76405.htm


The moral of the story is that we've all been set up:  parents, kids, teachers, enviros, land users, this side and that one.  Keep everyone divided, at odds and really busy while they steal the Constitution, Bill of Rights, our land, our kids, our weather and our minds.

They have to come up with a diagnosis so the docs can prescribe the pharmaceuticals.  Control of the mass population comes through their "legal" drugs.  How many people do you know who have NOT been prescribed massive quantities of drugs lately for never-before-heard-of medical conditions (Do you have restless leg syndrome?)?

Only one generation ago, my grandmother never, ever went to a doctor through 84 years (into 1970's) and 9 children.  At 84, she fell and broke a hip and was put in the hospital.  Once they got her on the drugs, she went into a coma and never came back.  This is how far they've come.  My grandfather, likewise no docs/drugs, died a few months later of a broken heart, he was 87.

To be successful, it has been necessary for TPTB to shut down our spiritual body because it is our greatest and strongest weapon (heck, it's really the only one left these days) to fend them off.  Not only have our spiritual bodies been neglected, but the formal Churches have shut them down entirely and led everyone astray.

You don't need no stinking Church to be spiritual and "in touch".  We're all in touch every second, just grab on and jump out of "their" matrix.
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Offline Anonymous

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I Forgot
« Reply #27 on: August 31, 2006, 12:26:04 AM »
On the Mormon thing and them being nice, that's true, and they are, in the beginning.  They don't necessarily push their religion on us, the newcomers here, but if they try and you turn them down, then you're on the outside, forever, looking in because they stick together first and foremost, no matter what.  They do a great job of shunning as well.

I've met a few really GREAT people in these parts (but that happens everywhere, doesn't it?).

As far as shorts above the knees, that's not necessarily true, but sexual abuse, particularly child sexual abuse, abounds here.  The ladies I've worked with have filled me in on how it is.  As a grown woman, I can also feel the ramifications of the male-control-dominance society (whatever they say goes and the little woman has her place).
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #28 on: August 31, 2006, 12:43:53 AM »
From a Salt Lake Tribune article on 6/22/04, headline "Mormon portion of Utah population steadily shrinking":

"According to the 2004 count, Utah is now 62.4 percent LDS with every county showing a decrease."

They estimate that Mormons will be the minority in Utah by 2030.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #29 on: August 31, 2006, 11:00:17 AM »
Sorry for the duplicate posts . . . I have a sticky mouse and sometimes the necessary heavy hand deals a double whammy!
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