Str8 and the U.S. Military: Brainwashing correlation??

[Anonymous]

Quite right, bloke..

[Anonymous]

Back to work y' lazy fuckers!

[GregFL]

the military admittedly uses brainwashing methods, but they are not equal to the brainwashing methods used in seed/straight based treatment modality.  Sure, some of the techniques are similar, as are all mind control techniques (like military chanting-see the other thread about 'motivating').

However, the military encouraged you to write your family. The military didn't set you in opposition to your family.  The military, and this is very important gives you an expiration date on your endoctrination.  Boot camp ends on a specific date.  The military's brainwashing is for very specific reasons and doesn't require you to surrender your entire personality in order to obtain status or to be part of the group.

Indeed, the military uses brainwashing, or behavior modification, techniques.  They are nowhere comparible in intensity, severity and effect  to what we went thru in 'treatment'.

[Anonymous]

First, lets get this out on the table.  Yes, the military does employ brainwashing tactics.  They break you down.  Then they build you back up.   The second part is key.  Straight did not do this.  They did not build you back up.

This has been irritating me for over twenty four hours now.

[GregFL]

First, lets get this out on the table.  Yes, the military does employ brainwashing tactics.  They break you down.  Then they build you back up.   The second part is key.  Straight did not do this.  They did not build you back up.

This has been irritating me for over twenty four hours now.

To be honest, me as well.  I mean, that is the very essense of brainwashing..to break you down and then build you back up into the image of the group.

The military did this, as does the seed/straight modality.  However, the military never breaks you down as far, nor does it require you to totally surrender your identity nor isolate you from the other 'recruits'.  It just piggybacks on your existing identity.

I don't think you are throwing your records, your clothes, your bedroom posters, your address book, and all your friends in the toilet when you enter the military.  The breakdown is much less severe, and it is for a known duration. Further, you usually know beforehand 'what the deal is' when you enter the marines.

Straight definitely 'built you back up'...right into a "straighling".  I am not sure the original poster thought it all the way thru.

[Anonymous]

folks..on this subject.. i do not think it foolish to impute gov't involvement in forced conversion programs . i believe that some in gov't passively help these programs, some covertly help these pogroms ( i meant PROGRAMS not POGROMS, didn't i?) in i know that a group was commisioned by gov. askew, fla to quote "bust the seed.."
 i think that a thorough look at principals, board member, physicians, and the like and a damn close look at the financials would explain much..the techniques of forced conversion have been well studied and documented by the mid 50's, and the work was done in military hospitals of course, the koreans simply used the methods the soviet developed... and no, military training is not at all as intrusive as the seed, they don't try to replace religious faith, for example, the proof is that mil service  doesn't care if you are a saint, they try to make you good at your job.

[FishBone]

I like you FishBone.  When I was in my "I can't believe this happened to me I am collecting as much information as I can on the subject to fuck the perpetrator" phase I actually had a copy of a letter that showed that the Director of Psychiatry at Straight Springfield was a DoD employee.  I will continue to search for it and, when/if I find it, I will forward it to you.  The problem with your theory about money though, is that Straight, financially, was not particularly  successful.  Politically successful, yes.  The other problem is that files on my computer seem to dissapear (hey guys i love that they pay you to read this shit).  I have since begun to back files up.  My bad.  If anyone else has the file I am talking about could you please post it.

Str8survivor, I like the way you think also.

I'll give you the "I can't believe this happened to me I am collecting as much information as I can on the subject to fuck the perpetrator" phase, as I may be on that phase now in a way (god damn, I finally made it to the next phase, 17 years later!) and I may actually have a little anecdotal evidence for you, though a little story is needed...

I was checked into str8 in feb '89, my parents were living apart as my father had started a couple new jobs away and was trying to sell the house in seminole (near St Pete)  He had worked for the V.A. (Fed Gov) for over 20 years as a psychiatrist, most stops on the tour he was the chief of psychiatry, and won some type of award from Bush Sr for his dealing with post traumatic stress sybdrome (I think) and his mostly successful non-medicated aproach.  He had left the V.A. and gone back to work for the state of VA(Virginia), where he had first worked here, for awhile, and then back to the V.A,(vetrans Administration) in Lake City, FL in a new position.  About this time I decided to turn into a complete 14 yr old heavy metal punk, skipping school, growing my hair, etc...  He blamed my mother for being undisciplined, felt guilty for being away, YadaYadaYada.  So I ended up at str8 for an hour of family counseling, all on the recomendation of one of his colleagues, the "14 day trial" and the "strip search" followed, and of course I was in, we had federal blue cross/blue shield, I wasn't going anywhere.  The first OMR he attended, maybe 3 weeks in or so, he was screaming "BULLSHIT" & "CULT".  I actually heard him through the collapsable walls, but he had already been labled an alchoholic by my mother (which he may or may not have been, depending on your definition of the word, but at this point the definition was he drank somewhat reguarly, and he thought straight was fucked.) and was thown out of group, and denied my removal because he and my mother both signed me in, so they both had to sign me out.  of course I was told he had given up on me, iwas worthless, so on & so forth.  In this time he used the influence he had in the medical and more specifficaly the drug treatment community to try to battle this.  He managed to get them removed from the hospitals association?, the AHA, or AMHA,  I think, I don't remeber which it was anymore,  and within a short time he was fired from his job at the V.A. in Lake City, when he went back to work for the State of VA in Danville.  I have never really decided for myself what to believe about this situation, it has always seemed kinda fishy, no reason was given for the termination.  He was a "temp" employee since he had left the VA before on his own will before, and they had been asking him to come back, and then, See Ya.  You would have to think the VA (veterans administation) comes under some DOD influence?

As for straight not making any money, now that is a fucked up paper trail.  Being registered as an outpatient facility, with little overhead, charging inpatient rates, somebody in that little building in the parking lot of the warehouse on Gandy in St Pete was RACKING IT IN!  Maybe not Str8 as a company, but that was alot of cash.


Dave

[Antigen]

Federal funding:

Wes Fager has some good info on this. First, Robert DuPont as head of NIDA recommended federal funding of Synanon based treatment and then the money bags came kicking down. The Seed got some millions of that. That was back in `70. By `74, The Seed was one topic of investigation by this committee:


 ED103726 -
Individual Rights and the Federal Role in Behavior Modification; A Study Prepared by the Staff of the Subcommittee on Constitutional Rights of the Committee on the Judiciary, United States Senate, Ninety-third Congress, Second Session.
militant mothers

I'm equally sure that some of the dark characters lurking in the background have had other, very different motives. Why? Simple economics. If a resource exists which can be turned to some desired purpose, it will be. The resource exists. And there's more than ample evidence of just these creepy alphabet soup types showing dedicated interest over years in this shit. Never mind just Straight, Inc. What about Matrix, the Kentucky prison experiments and other well documented government involvement in Synanon type behavior mod?

For anecdotal evidence of where this is all going sideways over the years, check out this guy's story about Green River Boys Camp
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t= ... t=Kentucky

As to what some "investors" have done with it, my interest is particularly piqued by a couple of coincidental facts that have come up in this looooong conversation. First, I think it's no coincidence at all that Straight set up shop in Fairfax and focused their recruiting efforts on high ranking officers and their social cohorts. I think if some geek were to matrix the Büsh people with those specific behavior mod projects like Guantanamo, Abu Ghraib and those 'secret' facilities hosted particularly brutal regimes around the planet, one might find a statistically significant occurrence of less than 2 degrees of separation. (parse that, mother fuckers! LOL)

Then back to the other end, the spectrum, those militant mothers heaving moltov milk bottles. DARE, zero tolerance and metal detectors in the schools.

It's a clusterfuck, folks. A gaggle of typically delusional human beings stoking, tweaking and inventing as we go along an ever darker, more dire consensus trance. The question is how do we get off of this trip and onto something better in the time we have left. More importantly, how do we teach the next generation a more wholesome tune and dance?

[dragonfly]

[Anonymous]

OK I have been reading some recent posts that have been comparing being in Straight to being in the military and as a result I feel compelled to start a new thread regarding this topic.

                I .Without a DOUBT i would have rather have been N the Military.

-S. Brown

[Antigen]

This is not the first post that has "died" with/because of this type of information.  WHY.  Is this boring? Can others not relate?  I am confused.  THIS IS THE ESSENCE OF THE ISSUE.  Ginger, I am intrigued. Why do you not engage when you get so close to the truth?

Well yeah. I think most people's eyes glaze over because they're not in the habit of speaking and thinking non-rhetorically about just exactlywhat our government might have been doing with the massive black budgets over the years. It's just another example of how the consensus trance works. We know there are billions of dollars churning through numerous low profile to secret government agencies since at least the time of WWII. We know these agents exist, eat, shit, sneeze and occasionally fuck, just like any other blood and bones human beings. And yet most people get real agitated and beg off whenever you try to discuss in concrete terms what these people might be doing with all that cash, why, wherefore and how.

It's silly, really, but that's how people think. The simple explanation is that most people make the logical error of being more afraid of the dangers inherent in drawing attention from the creepy alphabet soup type people than of those inherent in continuing to ignore them. Calling us crazy  as if these agencies don't exist or don't ever do anything and condemning conspiracy theory as if humans never conspire is just whistling past the grave yard.

Why do I shut down? Cause it's like playing with dead puppies. I can't seem to get any real engagement on this level. Plus my life's been hectic lately. Just call me out, though, if you ever want an answer I haven't given.

[GregFL]

On some level it depends on how your brain *works*.  I am a show me kind of guy, and while I suspect strongly the government influenced Art Barker to adopt the synanon methodology thru and by Dupont and federal funding, I have no way to verify it.

So, claiming it as a brute fact goes against my nature.  I can't.  I can only speculate.  Speculation is like kissing thru a screen...I get no satisfaction.

[Antigen]

"First, Robert DuPont as head of NIDA recommended federal funding of Synanon based treatment and then the money bags came kicking down. The Seed got some millions of that. "

No speculation at all, dear friend. DuPont did make such a recomendation and then The Seed did, indeed, receive NIDA funding for drug rehab meeting the definition of the mandate. If you look at the first link, Federal Role in Behavior Modification, it names The Seed by name as a recipient of just the BM funding with which the Erwin Commission was tasked to investigate.

Having a high standard of proof is one thing. But then extrapolation is a necessary part of normail reasoning. Without it, we'd never see a panhandler coming or know to step out of the way when some drunk looks like he might not notice the red light.

[GregFL]

Right.  We know Dupont showed up and the Seed radically changed into a synanon style treatment facility.  What I cannot piece together is the mechanism and who exactly introduced the techniques to the group?  It wasn't Art IMO.  I think I know who, but I cannot declare it as fact.  I have made numerous posts on this, and I really wish a factoid would find its way into my brain to clear up the unsolved pieces of the puzzle.

But, I can certainly speculate and offer up my opinion.  I am totally comfortable with that as long as I preface it as my opinion.

[FishBone]

Well, I think the reason people shy from this is, we'll never really know the truth.  If any of the ideas posted in this thread are true, the chances of any true evidence are slim to nil.  If there are any organizations in the government capable of monitoring this, they would most likely be capable of squashing something like this if we came upon any true evidence,

Which brings me to another question.  If this was in any way some kind of 'experiment,' does anyone remember anyone who could actually be collecting this kind of data?  I mean, my science skills have weakened in my old age, but for this kind of thing, you would need a control, (which could certainaly have been away from straight, or different programs away from each other...), and someone/s collecting the data to be analized.  The only person I talked to in my almost year in there that seemed to not be totally indoctrinated in and of themselves was a phsychiatrist of some foriegn background right after my intake (this was in st pete in '89) and I never saw this man again, personally, in group, or in any other context.  Everyone else i saw seemed to be a part of the machine itself, or run out for not agreeing with the philosiphy.  

If this was an 'experiment,' I don't believe there was anyone in the building at my time who could even begin to report on this data.  They were indoctrinated and thus to far emotionally involved

I would love to here some thoughts on this, as my time was short, (less than a year,)and toward the end of times for sttraight.