Author Topic: Take A LEAP  (Read 10587 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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Take A LEAP
« Reply #15 on: August 23, 2006, 08:59:56 PM »
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Carmel

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Take A LEAP
« Reply #16 on: August 23, 2006, 11:13:29 PM »
Quote from: ""Pls help""
one thing I dont get. The cops are mentioing that 19 yr old students who I assume had fairly clean records could be put away for years for offering a joint to their friends. Why on earth would any judge send a kid that young to jail for such a small matter?

Even if  the police arrested the kid, the court system is at fault here too in it's extreme sentencing.   If they are serious about stopping the availablity of drugs why would they not focus their energies on big time dealers and trafficers? The whole point of law enforcement is to serve and protect the community.

A sideline tangent story. In the smaller cities here policing is much different when it comes to dealing with small time issues.  I grew up in a provincial city. When i was 16 a girlfriend and i got obscenely drunk and she got stoned as well. We decided to forgo a cab and walk home through a dangerous park late at night. The cops who were patrolling found us and made us get in the car and drove us home. We were both feeling a little paranoind about what they would seach and find! They parked down the street and lectured us on doing stupid things that could get ourselves hurt & mentioned that drinking underage was illegal and then watched us safely go inside the house and drove off. They told us that if there was a next time they would escort us to the door which would not impress our parents. We were not even searched. Police are supposed to keep the community safe from harm and catch actual crims!


As i understand it, whether this still applies or not, some states have/had mandatory minimum sentences for drug possesion.  That would make it so that wether the judge thought the sentence was irrational or not, it would make little difference.  You hear tell of convicts who have been in for 10-20 years on a marijuana charge, based on mandatory minimum sentences.  if you do a little research you can find lots of info on individuals still fighting to get reduced time based on these excessive laws that in some places arent even in effect any longer.  Didnt seem to change the sentences of the convicts though.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
...hands went up and people hit the floor, he wasted two kids that ran for the door....."
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Offline Anonymous

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Take A LEAP
« Reply #17 on: August 23, 2006, 11:41:52 PM »
First off, I think Eudora's right---The "Drug WAr" ain't about keeping drugs off the streets and away from your little snot-nosed brats.  I can score about six different drugs within a five minute drive, more if you wanna take a twenty minute ride.  

The was is about criminalizing a whole subculture, about drug testing in the workplace and probation offices, big $$$$ from seizures and forfeitures, a continuous supply of inmates for the now-prvatized prison industry, a bunch of clients for the drug treatment industry and the subsequent $$$ it generates, the ability to go fuck with other countries under the guise of "keeping drugs out of America" and other horseshit like that.  It ain't about keeping little Janie off the shit, hell they want her to do 'em!  THen she enters the whole system I described above.......

Do you think the government gives a flying fuck about your kids health?  Yeah, that's why they fucking subsidize tobacco and let fast food chains advertise on TV during kid's shows.  These are the same people that won't test beef cattle for mad cow disease, weakened environmental laws, etc.    Trust me, they don't care if your kid is on hard drugs or not, they'd actually kind of prefer they were, then sought "treatment" at a state-approved reeducation center.

Look at how much money changes hands over DRUGS.....not the drugs themselves, or even the money spent on drugs themselves, but the money that changes hands because of drugs....the prison industry, the lawyers, the drug testing, the drug treatment, the ability to deny workman's comp insurance because of a positive test for marijuana, etc. etc.  If you think those assholes are just gonna go away over somethng as trivial as YOUR CIVIL RIGHTS, well, I got a bridge in NY that I'd like you to invest in.

And let's look at how the government has used the "war on Drugs" to subvert or eliminate the constitution of the United States.....warantless searches and seizures, wiretaps, etc. , etc.  All of that shit was going on per-9/11, as a pretext to "keep you safe from drugs", now, with the "WAr on Terror", they 've got even more power.  Give 'em an inch.....



A little word on mandatory minimums---back in the 80s, the feds were weighing the carrier the acid came on (paper, sugar cube, liquid) when it came to determining the amount of LSD for sentencing purposes.  A few hits of thick blotter paper, let's say 10 hits, just became a gram of LSD (the equivalent of 10,000 hits), and if you put a few drops of liquid in a gallon jug, well, fuck , you just create deight pounds of LSD!!!! enough to get everyone on the planet high about six times!!  This completely fucked-up method of determining sentencing guidlines was eliminated after enough rich kids and yuppies with money got busted and were able to enact a change.  I believe Sen. Joe Biden had something to do with overturning those guidlines.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Oz girl

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« Reply #18 on: August 24, 2006, 01:48:46 AM »
Christ! We had mandatory sentencing here for a year or 2 in 2 states for petty crime. it was seen as a shitty experiment that failed misreably and just ended up putting a lot of poor and aboriginal kids behind bars. it has been abandoned.
15 years! No wonder parents send their kids to these gulag schools. If I feared my kid was potentially going to end up in Jail for that long perhaps I would consider putting them in some such place. Surely middle america is not in favour of sentencing so extreme?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
n case you\'re worried about what\'s going to become of the younger generation, it\'s going to grow up and start worrying about the younger generation.-Roger Allen

Offline Anonymous

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Take A LEAP
« Reply #19 on: August 24, 2006, 03:14:04 AM »
Yes, middle America is that fucked up.  Politicians use it as an easy way to win votes, "I promise to be tough on crime!", which is about as courageous a stand as being for motherhood and thinking puppies are cute.
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Offline Oz girl

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« Reply #20 on: August 24, 2006, 04:36:12 AM »
The tough on crime movement has taken off to an extent here. i agree it is an automatic vote winner & youth vandalism is an ever popular topic. But this is beyond all reason or sanity. If the Drug free america foundations surveys are correct (I think it was 1 in 6 12th graders have "once tried dope") This potentially means that about 1 in 6 17 year olds  could potentially go to jail for a reasonable amount of time. Cmon, surely parents do not want this for their kids. is it that no one has thought it through or is it that this seems fair enough?
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n case you\'re worried about what\'s going to become of the younger generation, it\'s going to grow up and start worrying about the younger generation.-Roger Allen

Offline RTP2003

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Take A LEAP
« Reply #21 on: August 24, 2006, 04:40:09 AM »
Probably because no one's thought it through or they think it "can't happen here (or to me or my kid)".    Also, there's the reatrded Puritan thought that thinks that drug users deserve whatever they get.
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RTP2003 fought in defense of the Old Republic

Offline Oz girl

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« Reply #22 on: August 24, 2006, 06:32:23 AM »
perhaps you are on to something with the puritan angle. I am from a country which was founded as a penal colony for petty english & irish crims. There is a healthy cynicism when it comes to the rule of law.

Given that this is the Stragh board i assume many of you are alumni fron there so I dont know how extreme the situation was in the 80s. However my question is: Do you think that fear that you would be in Jail was a motivating factor for your parents? The Deadinsanejail catchcry seems popular but perhaps the big nerve programmes hit with parents is In Jail.This  is not afterall such an unreasonable fear. Is this why your parents sent you? Afterall straight was about drugs not necessarily other misbhaviour.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2006, 07:10:48 AM by Guest »
n case you\'re worried about what\'s going to become of the younger generation, it\'s going to grow up and start worrying about the younger generation.-Roger Allen

Offline mushymom

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Take A LEAP
« Reply #23 on: August 24, 2006, 06:47:25 AM »
I will tell you, in the 80's Straight was a nightmare.  People scratching holes in their arms to get out.  Beatings in locked rooms.  All kinds of crazy things.  Prostitutes were sentenced their and they would have all kinds of diseases and yet we were all exposed to the crap.  My family sent me more for behavior.  At least that is what my mom said.  I am still scarred from the experience.  I came in drunk quite a few times, but I had a terrible attitude and that is why my family took me there.  I learned it was better to just kiss ass and go along with everything to just get out, so that is what I did.

In the school system here, they are alot tougher on kids than when I was in school.  I am thankful that my kids have programs in the schools and that I have the awareness.
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tlanta 1982-1983

Offline Anne Bonney

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« Reply #24 on: August 24, 2006, 07:53:42 AM »
Straight in the 80s was hell.  Miller Newton made sure of that.  I was drinking and smoking pot, nothing that would put me in danger of jail, just your run of the mill teenager.  My dad had heard about Straight through his Employee Assistance Program at work but we kids had heard about it through others who had either escaped or been rescued....one by her boyfriend and some of his friends, snatched her up as the oldcommer was taking her to the car.  There were about 300 kids when I went in and pressure was constantly put on the parents to recruit more.  Thank god none of my friends ever came in, I'd have felt terrible.  They had just built a brand new shiny warehouse for us, Cincinnati had just split off but was still in the building, VA was about 6 months away from going on their own, intakes were up, Miller had just been made clinical director and all was right with the world in their eyes.

Others have said it and they're right.  The drug was is nothing more than politicians drumming up votes.  It serves no useful purpose and destroys people, families and sometimes entire communities (Google Tulia).  I hope more people will check into LEAP.  Smart group of good people.  Wow.  Didn't think I'd hear myself say that about cops.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
traight, St. Pete, early 80s
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Offline Oz girl

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« Reply #25 on: August 24, 2006, 08:39:46 AM »
i dont doubt the horror that was straight. But did your parents put you in there because of the legal aspect (19 yr olds being jailed etc) or because they felt you had an addiction? Which angle was sold to them?
i agree that LEAP seem great. I also think that a group of people as conservative & respected as cops can really get a wide audience to listen to the message.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
n case you\'re worried about what\'s going to become of the younger generation, it\'s going to grow up and start worrying about the younger generation.-Roger Allen

Offline Anonymous

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Take A LEAP
« Reply #26 on: August 24, 2006, 09:10:47 AM »
While I agree that decriminalizing/legalizing drugs is one approach to changing the "drug war" philosophy, has there been any research or studies that think decriminalization through to its end?

For instance, if heroine or cocaine is legal, would it create other public health/safety issues say that alcohol can/does?  Do you want someone driving while on certain drugs?  While one industry would be shut down (i.e. DEA) another may be created to deal with side affects of this decriminalization.  Should only certain drugs be legalized?  Would there be an education campaign created to explain the affects of these drugs while the decriminalization is phased in?  Would decriminalization take the mystification of doing drugs by children?

I'd be very interested to read one of these types of studies if they exist.
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Offline Anonymous

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Take A LEAP
« Reply #27 on: August 24, 2006, 09:27:35 AM »
No halfsteppin'.. Legalize all of it. Of course driving under the infuence should NOT be legal. Fuck the studies and organizations, just make some fucking sensible laws for fuck's sake. Who, other than a bunch of fucking dweebs has time for these "studies" anyway? Fuck that! We already know what will work and what won't work. Let's not muddy the waters. LEGALIZE ALL DRUGS, PERIOD.
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Offline Carmel

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« Reply #28 on: August 24, 2006, 09:27:58 AM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
While I agree that decriminalizing/legalizing drugs is one approach to changing the "drug war" philosophy, has there been any research or studies that think decriminalization through to its end?

For instance, if heroine or cocaine is legal, would it create other public health/safety issues say that alcohol can/does?  Do you want someone driving while on certain drugs?  While one industry would be shut down (i.e. DEA) another may be created to deal with side affects of this decriminalization.  Should only certain drugs be legalized?  Would there be an education campaign created to explain the affects of these drugs while the decriminalization is phased in?  Would decriminalization take the mystification of doing drugs by children?

I'd be very interested to read one of these types of studies if they exist.


Good point, however....we are already dealing with these issues as side effects of drug use.  Do you think that more people will drive while on coke if it were legal, than they do now? Whether a drug is legal or not, makes little bearing on whether people are going to make poor decisions on a personal level.  Attempting to control drug use at this level is what got us into this mess to begin with.  Why should we exchange one bad policy for another? We dont go around convicting people of a felony if they dont make proper choices in eating food or obtaining medical care.  It wouldnt be unlike putting people in jail for being obese.

As i see it this person making this poor choice to partake and drive, is unchangeable....what is manageable is the fact that when he gets pulled over for being under the influence, my tax dollars arent used in excess to convict this person of a victimless crime, send them through the prison system and ultimately support them for the next 6-10. Probably getting a diploma or completed degree at my expense while they are at it. Something i cant afford for myself or my children at this point.

I dont think that it would be all that useful to merely project a scenario on what the effects would be, all i know is that its getting worse by the minute in its current state.  At this point the only way to go is up.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
...hands went up and people hit the floor, he wasted two kids that ran for the door....."
-Beastie Boys, Paul Revere

Offline Anonymous

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Take A LEAP
« Reply #29 on: August 24, 2006, 09:29:11 AM »
Right on, Carmel. That's essentially what I was saying as well.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »