Author Topic: List of Known Abusive Programs  (Read 13194 times)

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Offline Lacey

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« Reply #60 on: August 26, 2006, 01:29:12 PM »
Quote from: ""blombro""
So let's say this, we agree that we should have nothing but comtempt for the corrupt programs, that only exist to make their owners richer.

What about programs that do actually exist to help kids, where there is absolutely no profit motive involved?

Lacey, your last post reminds me of someone trying to defend an ex-boyfriend who beat her in his brief moments of uncontrolled rage, but bought her flowers and did a bunch of other nice things for her, partly because her next ex-boyfriend drugged and raped her repeatedly.

It sounds to me like there are a number of things about the New Haven RTC that could be fixed as you mentioned.  Frankly, being restrained for trying to cut yourself (depends on the restraint, physically removing you from the cutting device is one thing, putting you in four points is another) seems a bit extreme.  

There are RTC's that are simply out of control and are unsafe because the residents make it that way (Madonna Heights and Lake Grove come to mind here on LI).  There are RTC's that are unsafe because the staff make it that way (any number of the TBS's mentioned here).  So New Haven was safe in that sense, that much I buy.

But equally, the feeling I get is that New Haven as an institution, didn't view you as a fully human being.  Maybe you'll say at that point in your life you didn't deserve that honor.  I disagree.  

I was speaking to a friend of mine who had been placed everywhere in the Long Island area, including being sent away to Kidspeace.  And let's just say that she was misdiagnosed.

For the first six years of her treatment she was labeled a "bad kid", and was sent to places that viewed their residents as "bad kids", then she was correctly diagnosed, and all of a sudden the state started sending her to warm and caring environments.  She was all of a sudden a "good kid" with a mental illness.

I realize there are some kids who really are just that bad, but I haven't met many.  After briefly being a teacher, I can say that even I did my own little mental arithmetic, you label kids without even realizing it.  But it is just this attitude that "these kids are bad", that sets the foundation for all the abuses that occur in all of these facilities, including New Haven.  

Theoretically if you could separate the bad apples from the good ones, and create two treatment modules for each group that would great.  But let's face it, most facilities have a one size fits all model, and most psychologists aren't that smart or clairvoyant to separate the two out.  I would rather take my chances with being lied to and manipulated by the few bad ones, and properly treat the majority who are at their core truly good.


Ok, first off, I have never been in four point restraint. The only place that I was ever at that even had that as an option was the STATE RUN PSYCH WARDS I WENT TO BEFORE TREATMENT.

In all of the longer term treatment centers I went to, that method of restraint wasnt even a part of the program. It was the, like, bucket style holds, and it was just to get the object away from me until they knew I wasnt going to hurt myself.

And I don't know. I guess I do agree with you in the sense that there should be two options, but that the means to determine who needs what still needs to be perfected.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #61 on: August 26, 2006, 01:42:04 PM »
You never went to an actual program at all; you're just lying about it and have gone through the trouble of making an artificial personality for it. I'm guessing you're TheWho.

Insert new coin.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #62 on: August 26, 2006, 01:48:26 PM »
I can understand your suspicions, but I think you're wrong on this one.  I think she's just a tad still washed, that's all.
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Offline blombro

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« Reply #63 on: August 26, 2006, 01:54:22 PM »
Fair enough, that's why I asked.  I hope we can all agree that what you described is one of the few examples of an appropriate use of restraint.

On a side note, I hear a lot of the same things you describe about New Haven attributed to Kidspeace.  Caring staff, safe place, saved them from themselves.  They've also had deaths due to restraints (albeit in the Pioneer Center, which is a lockup for male sex offenders) and rapes of residents.

If I had a strategy for dealing with Kidspeace, I wouldn't shut it down, becuase god knows these kids would just end up in JDC's and TBS's, but there clearly needs to be some serious reform in the way staff are screened and trained, and what behavioral mod systems are in place.  

Here's a crazy thought, if you just have to use a level system, wouldn't make more sense to have everyone at the highest level to begin with, and then demote them accordingly.  Isn't that the way it works in the real world? (sorry, off topic)
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Offline Lacey

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« Reply #64 on: August 26, 2006, 02:18:14 PM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
You never went to an actual program at all; you're just lying about it and have gone through the trouble of making an artificial personality for it. I'm guessing you're TheWho.

Insert new coin.


Why would I waste my time doing that? Ive been posting on the HLA thread since 2004 when I graduated. Ask Ginger or whoever about the IP address. They do that shit all the time on HLA thread.

But whatever I dont need to prove anything to you all here. All I was doing was presenting my perspective and having a friendly conversation about it. If you cant handle a different perspective than your own, and need to spring up some idea about me lying, then fine. But I am who I say I am, Sherlock. Try again.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #65 on: August 26, 2006, 03:04:45 PM »
Quote from: ""blombro""
Here's a crazy thought, if you just have to use a level system, wouldn't make more sense to have everyone at the highest level to begin with, and then demote them accordingly.  Isn't that the way it works in the real world? (sorry, off topic)


I don't think it's off topic. Points and/or levels are part of the behavior modification principles employed by most of these programs. The other part is the rewards and punishments (or "consequences" if you prefer) that go with the points & levels. If you study behavior modification techniques, you will understand why they don't start anyone at the highest level rather than the lowest level.

The thing that really distinguishes what parents and EdCons refer to as a "soft" or "good" program vs. a "bad" one is really just the specifics of the rewards & punishments, not the use of behavior mod techniques on the kids. That is the whole fallacy of the sales pitch behind these programs -- parents are being sold a behavior mod program under the guise of "therapy." I would argue that if one's goal is simply to modify a child's behavior, then the "soft" programs are less effective than the harsher ones like those run by a certain company whose acronym reminds us of a certain stinging insect. But remember that coercing a behavioral change is not the same thing as addressing psychological problems or dealing with their causes. In fact, behavior mod often has the opposite effect, even though outwardly the person's behavior is "better."

To any parent that is considering a BM program for their child, I highly recommend first learning about this subject and it's founder, a controversial Harvard grad named B.F. Skinner. After he finished his experiments with modifying animal behavior by using rewards like food and punishments like electric shocks, he began testing with human subjects. The first human subject was his own daughter.

In the decades since Skinner, his techniques have been improved upon and adapted for use by oppressive governments (especially N. Korea and China), cult leaders, POW commanders and more recently the "Troubled Teen" industry. In colloquial terms, BM is often called "brainwashing." In the hands of a skilled practitioner who has absolute control over another human being, it can be used to make the subject say or do absolutely anything they are physically capable of doing, including things that completely violate the subject's own morals.

When BM techniques are used on another person for a long period of time, they can indeed produce long-lasting behavioral change, even after the subject is removed from the rewards/punishments BM system. This occurs because of what psychologists call cognitive dissonance -- an inherent stress each of us feels when our behavior is inconsistent with our attitudes & beliefs. If you can coerce the behavior change and repetitively reinforce it over a long period of time, eventually the attitudes & beliefs will follow. If for example, rewards & punishments are used to coerce me into eating a food I dislike -- on a regular basis for a long period of time -- my subconcious mind recognizes that I eat this stuff all the time (that is my behavior), therefore it must be true that I enjoy it (attitudes & beliefs).

If you want your child to be broken down and built back up into a different person, BM can do that. If your child has real psychological problems (depression, etc.), BM will not change that -- you just end up with a different person who still has those underlying problems.

To a parent who has read all this and says "yes, that's what I want -- a different child" then I would seriously question your ethics.
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Offline ZenAgent

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« Reply #66 on: August 26, 2006, 04:51:59 PM »
Quote
To a parent who has read all this and says "yes, that's what I want -- a different child" then I would seriously question your ethics.


Wise words,guest.  Parents should keep in mind what the U.S. Senate concluded about BM in a bi-partisan study of the Seed program.  Sen. Sam Ervins compared the BM techniques as being identical to the "highly refined" brainwashing techniques used by the North Koreans in the fifties.  Mao Tse Tung implimented behavior modification in his re-education camps.  The Communist methods were identical to the techniques used in teen camps:  peer pressure, breaking down of the individual, constant mental and physical stress, high carb, low protein diets.  Parents' main responsibility should be ensuring the health and happiness of their child, and behavior modification programs are the antithesis of that.  I beg any parent seeking treatment for a troubled child to look beyond an RTC's website propaganda and thoroughly search the internet for info.  There are some wonderful, caring facilities out there, like Sheppard Pratt in Maryland.  With all the benefits of community-based treatment coming to light, we need to promote the idea of keeping troubled kids in a familiar environment and saving them from the trauma of being removed from their homes by strangers, cut off from family and friends and very possibly suffering horrific abuse, or even death.  As the parent of a child in an abusive facility, I can't stand the thought of another child experiencing what my girl is going through.  We've been working constantly to get our girl out of a place that is doing so much harm.  When we get her out of PV, I won't stop.  I want PV shut down, then I'll offer help to anyone or any group taking on this vile industry.  I was told by an advocate that I've been "bit", meaning I've been "radicalized".  I've never been involved in any causes, but what is going on in these facilities is morally reprehensible and repulsive.  I cannot in good conscience allow it to go on.  If someone as apolitical as I am can align himself with a grassroots movement like this, it's because I've never seen injustice on such a level.  These kids have absolutely no rights and no protection, and every time I read about a sweet  child like Angellika Arndt dying, or go to ISAC and see that four kids have died in two months, I'm filled with a maelstrom of emotions.  Sadness, anguish, anger, and fear, too, because my own sweet girl is in one of the most abusive programs I know of on U.S. soil

If you love your kids, work with them and work by their sides, don't ship them off to strangers for "tough love".  As Aaron Bacon's mom said after her son died tragically in a program, "It wasn't tough love, it was only tough".
« Last Edit: August 28, 2006, 08:49:29 AM by Guest »
\"Allah does not love the public utterance of hurtful speech, unless it be by one to whom injustice has been done; and Allah is Hearing, Knowing\" - The Qur\'an

_______________________________________________
A PV counselor\'s description of his job:

\"I\'m there to handle kids that are psychotic, suicidal, homicidal, or have commited felonies. Oh yeah, I am also there to take them down when they are rowdy so the nurse can give them the booty juice.\"

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #67 on: August 28, 2006, 01:08:46 AM »
Juvie sucks---but at least a kid can't get sent there without due process of law.

Juvie sucks--but at least a kid who gets sent there can write to and get letters from anybody he wants, and so isn't cut off from the outside world to the same extent as in a BMF.

Juvie sucks--but at least a kid who gets sent there has the right to have the sentence be proportional to whatever offense he was convicted of.

Juvie sucks--but at least a kid in juvie can cry to a lawyer or advocate if he's being made to suffer cruel and unusual punishment.

Juvie sucks--but at least the warden and guards aren't going to screw around with visiting hours just because the inmate isn't one hundred percent compliant.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If my child was brought up before a family court on charges, I'd hire her the best lawyer we could find.  If she needed to be in a mental hospital, I'd have my lawyer try to make that case to family court.

If she got convicted and the judge gave us the option of him sentencing her to juvie locally or putting her in a BMF somewhere, my husband and I would let her go to juvie.

We would also visit as often as possible, call, write, and make arrangements for picking up with her education at wherever she happened to be when she got out.

Which is pretty much the same thing I would do if my husband was brought up on charges, or he would do if I was brought up on charges.

The whole key here is if you don't commit a crime, you're one hell of a lot less likely to be brought up on charges for one.

If someone in your family does commit crimes, then you have your lawyer get them the best deal he can, and you let the justice system run its course.

Sure, Programmies will think I'm "So Wrong"---but the large majority of society agrees with me that juvie is the best way we've got to deal with kids who do something serious enough to be incarcerated.  If the large majority of society didn't agree with me about that, we wouldn't have juvie at all, now, would we?

Juvie sucks, but BMFs suck worse than juvie.

Julie
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Offline ZenAgent

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« Reply #68 on: August 28, 2006, 11:03:03 AM »
Juvenile detention was where my girl's biological father threatened to send her after she "ran away". (She text-messaged my phone every half-hour or so to say 'I'm safe, don't worry' as she drove toward her recently ex boyfriend's college.)  She reacted to her dad's threat by attempting suicide.  (being the good girl she is, she walked downstairs and told us she'd ingested 10 Lunestas)

We took her straight to the hospital, scared shitless, and I had to  help her walk since she was rubber-legged and very, very wasted.  There wasn't any time to think about what had suddenly made her suicidal.  She and her ex had made peace, so I discounted that notion.  While she was in the ER alternating between near-sleep and loud sobs, she told me her father threatened her with juvie...reform school... and she decided she would "rather die than go there,"  

She also wrote three suicide notes(perfectionist), expressing her love for her mom and I, her friends, even the dog and the cat.  Her biological father was conspicuously absent, which is sad, but it reminds me of TSW's story about a program kid wishing his father would die during his open heart surgery.  How much abuse does it take until a kid says "I disown you, and I would be free if you were dead,"  

Anyway, her father didn't throw our girl into juvie, he threw her into PV, a thousand times worse. The suicide attempt he was responsible for gave him an opportunity to steal custody.  He'll never accept that he's responsible either.  I'm ashamed to say it, but I wish he were dead, too.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
\"Allah does not love the public utterance of hurtful speech, unless it be by one to whom injustice has been done; and Allah is Hearing, Knowing\" - The Qur\'an

_______________________________________________
A PV counselor\'s description of his job:

\"I\'m there to handle kids that are psychotic, suicidal, homicidal, or have commited felonies. Oh yeah, I am also there to take them down when they are rowdy so the nurse can give them the booty juice.\"

Offline Anne Bonney

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« Reply #69 on: August 28, 2006, 11:16:54 AM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
The residential therapeutic schools are a good choice for kids like Lacey who were doing their best to self-destruct but didn't need to be around hardened criminals.

No, they're not.  Do you have any research to back that claim up?



Quote
There ARE many instances where a good residential program is appropriate and where the kid will be given a chance to mature and work on some issues outside the home.

Name one.


 
Quote
It's really pathetic how judgemental and absolutely wrong you manage to be. This isn't science fiction- it is real parents who care deeply about real kids.  I have a friend who went to prison for a white collar crime. He said to do anything possible to keep your kid out of the system.  He saw young people in for drugs just lose their complete desire for any kind of life while they were in jail.



I have a couple of friends that have been in both.  They all say that they would much rather be in jail/juvie than any RTC or TBS.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #70 on: August 28, 2006, 01:18:13 PM »
Yea, at least in juvie you know when you are getting out.  They can't keep kids there to milk their parents for every dime they have.

Even adult prison is better than being imprisoned in one of these for profit programs because they know how long their sentence is.  They are allowed to use the phone to talk to their lawyer or advocates.  These programs hold kids until the folks money supply goes dry. Rich kids are really in trouble if they get sent to one of these teen gulags.
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