Author Topic: More bullshit advice from ST (Read 40787 times)

Troll Control · « **Reply #60 on:** September 11, 2006, 11:29:16 AM »

exhausted
Member
Member # 5259

posted September 09, 2006 08:51 AM
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Oh Lord I am so there with the ADHD thing!! I have two with it....the eldest one has adult ADHD and is a total pain in the neck, but it wasn't diagnosed back in the day in the UK, we've only just realised it's not 'naughty boy syndrome'

Ritalin can definitely make them sleep badly, I don't know if my son was worse before or after taking it to be honest! If he's on Ritalin it might be wise to get his levels checked, changing dosage may help him.

I totally agree that a 14 yr old boy who has no dad at home will try to be the big man, that part is perfectly normal, it's so difficult to know what's acceptable & normal behaviour & what isn't when you have a child who's got other troubles, that line becomes blurred for us and we over react to everything!
But hitting you is a no no, you have to make it quite clear that you brought him into this world and can just as easily take him out, be strong for his sake and stand up to him, he is being a bully, and we all know bullies only bully those who are weaker than them

Please don't think it's easy for me to say this, I've taken a fair few knocks off the eldest but in my mind, I knew if he was going to hit me anyway I may as well let him know it's not going to be a pushover to do so and he's stopped doing it

Parents should be issued with stun guns - none of us would be in this position if we were

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Help help help help help ......

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Posts: 10 | From: United Kingdom | Registered: Sep 2006 | Logged: 84.71.170.203 |

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this moron advocates violence against children. nice.

i bet marvin gaye's dad said some of these same things right before he blew marvin away with a pistol...

Anonymous · « **Reply #61 on:** September 11, 2006, 11:40:52 AM »

Okay that last one broke my psycho meter. That guy is off the charts.

I want to think that some of these are Fornits members getting a little trolling in, but I know better...

Dr Phil · « **Reply #62 on:** September 11, 2006, 04:56:50 PM »

Umm... wow. A struggling teens poster suggesting they have the right to murder their child. WTF is wrong with these people?

Anonymous · « **Reply #63 on:** September 11, 2006, 06:22:33 PM »

um ... ahhh .... yeah, "exhausted" is a bit extreme. wonder why the kid has "problems". but i hope that poster meant more of knocking him down for hitting (which is what he is said to have done) than kill when writing "taking him out". at least i hope that is what the Britisher meant -- especially since it goes on "stand up to him".

But there really can be no excuse for the "parents should be issued stun guns". And this from one who isn't anti everything.

Anonymous · « **Reply #64 on:** September 11, 2006, 09:53:53 PM »

Have a sense of proportion. If my husband's late when we have to go somewhere, I might say, "I'm gonna kill him." That doesn't mean I'm planning or advocating murder.

Some of these parents are whacko enough to actually use a stun gun on their children, but most likely the highlighted stuff was just hyperbole.

Program parents really are terrible, and the Program really is terrible. They'd all sure like to be able to convince casual critics that all of us who vigorously oppose them are only jumping at shadows. It would be better if we wouldn't make that easy for them.

I know, I know, some Program Parents are dupes. Many are not, they're just warped. Either way, overreacting to hyperbole hurts our cause more than it helps.

Julie

Anonymous · « **Reply #65 on:** September 12, 2006, 12:21:13 AM »

hyperbole or not I am sure many parents would use a stun gun if they had one. As for "taking out" a kid think of how many children are murdered each year by their parents; how many are abused and how many are screwed up for life. I certainly hope if it is only "hyperbole" that they don't use it around their children who take things literally.

Anonymous · « **Reply #66 on:** September 12, 2006, 01:12:49 AM »

Quote from: ""Guest""

hyperbole or not I am sure many parents would use a stun gun if they had one. As for "taking out" a kid think of how many children are murdered each year by their parents; how many are abused and how many are screwed up for life. I certainly hope if it is only "hyperbole" that they don't use it around their children who take things literally.

I get it.

Your next door neighbor says she's going to kill her husband because he's late to pick her up and you laugh---she's kidding.

Andrea Yates says the exact same thing and you don't laugh, you start fearing for his life and calling emergency phone numbers.

"Rod" isn't scary because of what he said. He's scary because of what he is---a Program Parent.

When he says those things, they're scary--but only because he's scary.

Julie

Anonymous · « **Reply #67 on:** September 12, 2006, 10:02:33 AM »

A teenager says that type of thing about their parents on the internet or school mates and the FBI will show up at his door.

Anonymous · « **Reply #68 on:** September 13, 2006, 01:42:53 PM »

Instead of using drugs, try choc. flav expresso beans. For most of us they wire us, but for kids with ADD they do just the opposite, they calm them down, also kiwi fruit is known to help. Please try something different than drugs, and also keep them active in sports or whatever they like to do.

Troll Control · « **Reply #69 on:** September 18, 2006, 12:34:04 PM »

or just try program after program after program, like these idiotic parents from ST:

itsme
Member
Member # 5144

posted September 17, 2006 08:39 PM
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Birdfeeder,
Your post could almost have been written by me. Our daughter is in her 3rd program. It is a 90 day program which ends in November. Last holidays were with her and our other teen. She had problems and was home after her first semester of college, but we had no idea what we were in for and how serious the problems really were. She is considering sober living again after her 90 day program and if she stays in the state she is in now, I don't think she will be home for the holidays. Only some of my family members really know the story, so explaining her absence to her grandparents, etc, will be another step in my recovery for sure. One that I have really put off. I could bring her home for a "visit" during the holidays, but am afraid that she might not go back and would find support here from using friends if she chose to relapse. I've been attending Al-anon and another support group and have been trying to relax a little, knowing that she is in a good program. I hadn't even thought about the holidays. I have been encouraged to keep her from visiting if at all possible, because once you let them in, it can be hard to get them out. We are scheduled for Family Week to visit her in the beginning of October, so that has kept me from thinking much further ahead than a couple of weeks. I have send out a Christmas photo of my 2 children every year since they were born. I don't see me doing that this year, so I know that in itself will cause questions from those that haven't already heard her story. Remember, there are lots of families that don't send out Christmas letters. If it isn't something you want to do this year, then don't do it! Give yourself as many breaks as you can find and enjoy your other child. That's what I have planned so far!
Best Wishes.

what a fucking DOPE.

Anonymous · « **Reply #70 on:** September 18, 2006, 12:37:29 PM »

Quote from: ""Guest""

I have send out a Christmas photo of my 2 children every year since they were born. I don't see me doing that this year, so I know that in itself will cause questions from those that haven't already heard her story.

Ever heard of Photoshop?

Nihilanthic · « **Reply #71 on:** September 18, 2006, 01:54:39 PM »

Quote from: ""Guest""

or just try program after program after program, like these idiotic parents from ST:

itsme
Member
Member # 5144

posted September 17, 2006 08:39 PM
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Birdfeeder,
Your post could almost have been written by me. Our daughter is in her 3rd program. It is a 90 day program which ends in November. Last holidays were with her and our other teen. She had problems and was home after her first semester of college, but we had no idea what we were in for and how serious the problems really were. She is considering sober living again after her 90 day program and if she stays in the state she is in now, I don't think she will be home for the holidays. Only some of my family members really know the story, so explaining her absence to her grandparents, etc, will be another step in my recovery for sure. One that I have really put off. I could bring her home for a "visit" during the holidays, but am afraid that she might not go back and would find support here from using friends if she chose to relapse. I've been attending Al-anon and another support group and have been trying to relax a little, knowing that she is in a good program. I hadn't even thought about the holidays. I have been encouraged to keep her from visiting if at all possible, because once you let them in, it can be hard to get them out. We are scheduled for Family Week to visit her in the beginning of October, so that has kept me from thinking much further ahead than a couple of weeks. I have send out a Christmas photo of my 2 children every year since they were born. I don't see me doing that this year, so I know that in itself will cause questions from those that haven't already heard her story. Remember, there are lots of families that don't send out Christmas letters. If it isn't something you want to do this year, then don't do it! Give yourself as many breaks as you can find and enjoy your other child. That's what I have planned so far!
Best Wishes.

what a fucking DOPE.

Wow, queen bitch of the universe?

Holy SHIT. She needs a lot of therapy, and by that I mean her poor kid. That bitch needs to just get smacked with a clue stick.

Troll Control · « **Reply #72 on:** September 20, 2006, 11:14:48 AM »

Topic: Other sources for Program reviews, info
StugglingKat
Junior Member
Member # 5264

posted September 18, 2006 02:55 AM
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Are there other resources where one can find out about people's experiences and reviews of specific programs? I wish we could post on the Program forum instead of only PM. It's really hard to get specifics about various programs.

Thanks

Kat
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Posts: 8 | From: Alaska | Registered: Sep 2006 | Logged: 209.112.196.52 |

Michael Muldoon
Junior Member
Member # 4278

posted September 18, 2006 05:35 PM
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I would strongly reccemend Fornits.Com. They have great knowledge of many,many,programs.

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All it takes for evil to succeed is for good to do nothing about it.

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Posts: 4 | From: Bronx, New York | Registered: Jun 2004 | Logged: 4.173.238.59 |

katsmom
Member
Member # 4446

posted September 18, 2006 05:47 PM
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quote:
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Originally posted by Michael Muldoon:
I would strongly reccemend Fornits.Com. They have great knowledge of many,many,programs.
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Uh NOT! Fornits is a bogus site with posters who like to send nasty emails to parents. I would never go there.
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Posts: 262 | From: Los Angeles | Registered: Nov 2004 | Logged: 75.5.13.88 |

WillieNelson
Junior Member
Member # 5254

posted September 18, 2006 06:24 PM
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Fornits has little value. The posters have an agenda and it does not involve providing an honest evaluation of programs. There ARE no good programs, according to Fornits.
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Posts: 4 | From: SE US | Registered: Aug 2006 | Logged: 72.154.207.243 |

Michael Muldoon
Junior Member
Member # 4278

posted September 18, 2006 06:38 PM
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Fornits has suggested programs such as AA, Mentoring Programs,etc.They are programs too. What if a parent did not want to have a kid in a program that was in-patient or did not have the financial resources to pay for a program? I think Fornits gives advice to a more broader amount of the public.

[ September 18, 2006, 06:46 PM: Message edited by: Michael Muldoon ]

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All it takes for evil to succeed is for good to do nothing about it.

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Posts: 4 | From: Bronx, New York | Registered: Jun 2004 | Logged: 4.173.238.59 |

Lon
Administrator
Member # 53

posted September 18, 2006 08:26 PM
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Hi StrugglingKat:

You might try to main part of this site www.strugglingteens.com. This discussion board is only an adjunct of the main site, which my IT guy tells me contains more than 10,000 pages of information. It includes letters to the editor, news about schools and programs, visit reports by a variety of professionals, articles and essays on a wide variety of topics, links to mainstream articles relating to all kinds of programs, etc. If you put the name of a specific school in the search box, it will bring up a list of most if not all the mentions of it on the site going back to 1989.

Lon Woodbury, IECA, CEP
www.strugglingteens.com
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Posts: 478 | From: Bonners Ferry, ID | Registered: Aug 1998 | Logged: 67.142.130.34 |

Terry_MO
Junior Member
Member # 5232

posted September 18, 2006 09:07 PM
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beware of strugglingteens.com and this board here is a copy of a PM that gives a recomendations "I had great success with my son at xxxxx xxxxx- Great Barrington, Mass. www.jda.org Like no other place - the very best, for bright, struggling kids."

When i reserched the school i found they are currently facing a lawsuit from aledgidly teacher sexually abusing a student. I told the parent on this board this and they defended the school and ignored the lawsuit info and stood by the recomendation.

Fornits.com is where i found out about the lawsuit and the truth about the school. Fornits saved me from bad advice.

[ September 18, 2006, 09:11 PM: Message edited by: Terry_MO ]
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Posts: 4 | From: Missouri | Registered: Jul 2006 | Logged: 24.216.122.200 |

exhausted
Member
Member # 5259

posted September 19, 2006 02:41 AM
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I'd like to know if there are any programs in the UK! Nothingness, there is nothing for us here!

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Help help help help help ......

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Posts: 35 | From: United Kingdom | Registered: Sep 2006 | Logged: 84.64.217.36 |

mose
Member
Member # 2980

posted September 19, 2006 07:09 AM
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Kat,
When I was doing my research, I purchased the review of programs "The Parent Empowerment Handbook" that Lon Woodbury publishes (he is the owner of this site). It is a comprehensive book on programs, I found it extremely helpful, it has all the individual school reviews (that his company recommends)he is a reputable professional! It also had a wealth of information compiled by educational consultants over the years with plenty of good parenting advice.

There is nothing on Fornits that a parent would find of value. They are a group of angry children and (some adults) many who have no first hand experience with programs or troubled teenagers. Most find pleasure in writing the meanest nastiest vitriol towards one another, and any parent who attempts to write something or asks legitimate questions is shouted down. They are an untrustworthy group and have hacked into members private email addresses and send horrible notes to parents privately and post private information about members. It is more aggravation then any one needs, without any benefit of ever reading one shred of valuable information pertaining to parenting, programs or helping one's child.

[ September 19, 2006, 07:13 AM: Message edited by: mose ]
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Posts: 1000 | From: New York City | Registered: Jul 2002 | Logged: 69.203.106.219 |

techdad
Member
Member # 5230

posted September 19, 2006 08:44 AM
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Kat,

I understand your frustration. If you search through the ST archives, you will find an explanation of why Lon no longer allows open discussion of specific programs.

I disagree with those who say "don't go there" about any particular web site or discussion forum. Opinions are not facts, but in my own research in seeking help for my son, I discovered that there is very little data on this industry or these programs. In the absence of facts, the opinions of others and your own gut feeling is about all you have to go on. For me, that's all the more reason I want to hear every side of the story, including opinions with which I am likely to disagree.

There is a dark side to this 'teen help' business of which parents considering programs should be aware. Your child's physical and mental health and well-being are at stake, not to mention staggering sums of money, the likes of which you never dreamed of spending. If you sift through the gamut of opinions of parents and students, news stories, allegations, and so on, you might conclude as I did that some programs seem to have genuinely helped some kids, others probably don't help much but don't really hurt either (other than lost time and money and strained relationships) and others seem to have been genuinely harmful to some kids.

For some parents, the decision process boils down to a process of elimination -- and a large number of specific options can be quickly and easily eliminated based on suspicions, allegations, the aggregate body of opinion and your own gut instinct. If something doesn't feel right, it probably isn't right.

There are lots of web sites, both pro & con, that I would recommend parents read to get educated. Feel free to PM me if you want the URLs. The most important thing is to do the research and take the time to make an informed decision. The worst thing a parent can do is make a knee-jerk decision, usually following some specific "last straw" behavioral incident at home, without taking the time to learn the pros & cons of all the options.
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Posts: 19 | From: AZ | Registered: Jun 2006 | Logged: 68.3.12.50 |

StugglingKat
Junior Member
Member # 5264

posted September 19, 2006 09:27 AM
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I did check out Fonits and at first what I saw and read scared me. Upon more investigation, and the page that listed the various programs in trouble or in the news was helpful to read to understand the issues at hand or the darker side of the industry (death of clients, abuse, control tactics used for both parents and teen).

It did help to be a little more wary. It is unfortunate that some actions of members have diluted their message and discredited their positions.

I did go ahead and order THe Parent Handbook. Hopefully, it will come soon. My son isn't in immediate crisis needing eminient placement so I have a little time before making a decisive course of action.

Kathy
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Posts: 8 | From: Alaska | Registered: Sep 2006 | Logged: 209.112.196.52 |

galen
Member
Member # 5237

posted September 19, 2006 12:23 PM
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I would also be wary of advice you receive here, from other parents. I have received both positive and negative advice from parents on this forum, sometimes regarding the same program. In my case, some of the messages I received were alarming enough that I made arrangements to visit the program our EC recommended for our son. I did investigate the program thoroughly, both the pros and cons, before we made our final decision, but the personal visit and chance to interact with the students, faculty, and staff were a very important part of that decision.

Remember, not every program is the right choice for every child. So opinions will differ. I've learned to take those personal experiences, especially the extremely negative ones, with a grain of salt. We have made what we believe is the best choice for our child. Only time will tell ...

In the end, trust your own gut instinct. You know and understand the needs of your child better than anybody else.

Galen
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Posts: 12 | From: Houston, Texas | Registered: Jul 2006 | Logged: 67.10.185.253 |

WillieNelson
Junior Member
Member # 5254

posted September 19, 2006 06:09 PM
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I don't understand why you would say to be "wary" of advice received from parents on this site. ANY advice should be taken in the spirit in which it is given- one family's experience with a program. However, most if not ALL the legitimate parents posting on this site give thoughtful and truthful advice about programs and their own experiences. If you are receiving alarming messages, they are probably not from any of the regular members of this site.
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Posts: 4 | From: SE US | Registered: Aug 2006 | Logged: 74.241.173.111 |

hb
Member
Member # 4818

posted September 19, 2006 06:11 PM
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Galen,
I think the fact that you received both positive and negative information from parents on this website is a good thing. It means that we are being honest with each other. There are always going to pros and cons of any program. You are indeed do correct that one program doesn't fit all.

The most important factor is to trust your gut instincts, as you know your child best. And always, always personally visit ANY program you are considering. Galen is right that you need to talk to students, staff.. beyond the people who take you on the tour. It takes time and more money to visit several programs, but that is one way to truly compare. When we made our final decision, I felt comfortable that I had done my homework.
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Posts: 180 | From: PA | Registered: Jun 2005 | Logged: 68.162.181.46 |

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funny how willienelson issues the blanket statement to avoid fornits completely, as our opinions are garbage, but chastizes the other poster for suggesting ST is biased and has an agenda...

hmmmm. go figure. as long as the BIASED AGENDA is a PRO-PROGRAM one, then it's all good.. what a fucking dope. he's an embarrasment to the real willie.

Nihilanthic · « **Reply #73 on:** September 20, 2006, 01:48:19 PM »

These guys really have a chip on their shoulder for us, huh

And yeah, we DO advocate programs... that work... that arent abusive... that dont isolate the kid from family and the law and the outside world and advocates... only when necessary... and only as restrictive as NECESSARY, not just because a parent/edcon/quack says so.

http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=149856#149856 <- for example.

That "halfway house" program Helena Handbasket posted a while ago and I linked to comes to mind. That actually teaches them how to go out and live and work and make decisions, unlike the lock-in, institutional, 'emotional growth' nonsense peddled that is more about making a child obedient and doing what people tell them to do and to act a certain way... and just disclose EVERYTHING to EVERYONE.

Anonymous · « **Reply #74 on:** September 20, 2006, 04:50:03 PM »

so glad that you guys on Fornits have nothing better to do than to troll ST (something you accuse us of all the the time).
We don't resort to posting and quoting your threads to suit our agendas, but hey, go knock yourselves out............

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