Author Topic: I used to hate people. but now...  (Read 16978 times)

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Offline Anne Bonney

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I used to hate people. but now...
« Reply #15 on: July 13, 2006, 01:50:33 PM »
I can understand that to a certain extent, but I think there's a world of difference between your brother and Miller Newton, Jay Kay, Randal Hinton and the Litchfields.  We all fell for it to a degree, but I doubt that any of us would end up going to the lengths that these assholes have.
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Offline Antigen

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I used to hate people. but now...
« Reply #16 on: July 13, 2006, 08:16:41 PM »
Yeah, there's a difference. People like Virgil and Art had higher aspirations than my bro. Sad but true. I do pity them as much as I would a rabid rottweiler.
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Offline Anonymous

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I used to hate people. but now...
« Reply #17 on: July 13, 2006, 09:54:05 PM »
I never felt that full body, all encomasing hatred for the day-to-day staffers that would come on for a year and quit, which was usually the case. It's been a while since my own experience and the hate for specific staff that harmed me has dwindled to almost non-existent. I see them like you would an enemy soldier. They wouldn't be there if their leader hadn't sent them. Sure, you can get angry at them, and kill them. But the leader on the other side can just send more. That is why I do feel hatred towards the owners and investors of programs, and those in power who allow them to operate unimpeded. If a disgruntled staff wanted to shut down a program, they couldn't. An owner could do it instantly. A kid dies, bam, that's it. No more games, it's time to get these kids professional help, even if it means I make less by employing professionals and raising the standards. But it doesn't happen. Instead, they cover it up. Send out their minions to do damage control and bribe politicians. How could you NOT hate these people?
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Offline Anonymous

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I used to hate people. but now...
« Reply #18 on: July 13, 2006, 10:07:52 PM »
Hate is definitely the seed of revenge. It took me a while to figure out why the rich are so scared all time, hiding in gated communities with private armed forces patrolling, etc. A lot of them make their money off the backs of others and they depend upon the 'system' to protect them. I would be terrified to if I depended upon this house of cards to protect me from all those who I fucked over and wished me harm.
I wonder how many people on this planet are sitting on their own private arsenals just waiting for 'the day'?
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Offline Anonymous

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I used to hate people. but now...
« Reply #19 on: July 13, 2006, 10:15:12 PM »
So is the US, Syria, Iran, Saudi Arabia, India, Pakistan, Israel, Lebanon, Russia, China....
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Offline Anonymous

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I used to hate people. but now...
« Reply #20 on: July 13, 2006, 10:19:14 PM »
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Offline OverLordd

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I used to hate people. but now...
« Reply #21 on: July 13, 2006, 11:22:26 PM »
Yeah, we should, thats pretty sad, a pityful example of humanity, but again, pity does not mean that you dont face the consiquences of your actions.
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our walking down a hallway, you turn left, you turn right. BRICK WALL!

GAH!!!!

Yeah, hes a survivor.

Offline Anonymous

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I used to hate people. but now...
« Reply #22 on: July 14, 2006, 12:02:24 AM »
I guess that right there is the difference between our views on this matter. When I view this video I feel pity for the girl being attacked, and only contempt for the man doing the beating.
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Offline OverLordd

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I used to hate people. but now...
« Reply #23 on: July 14, 2006, 12:59:45 AM »
I dont think its wise to have pity for a victim. Sure. Help them, feel bad for what happened, promise that it will ever happen again, but pity condicends against them and makes them less for what happened to them.
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our walking down a hallway, you turn left, you turn right. BRICK WALL!

GAH!!!!

Yeah, hes a survivor.

Offline Anonymous

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I used to hate people. but now...
« Reply #24 on: July 14, 2006, 01:37:44 AM »
:-?

just FYI....

pit·y
n. pl. pit·ies

1.  Sympathy and sorrow aroused by the misfortune or suffering of another.
2. A matter of regret: It's a pity she can't attend the reception.

Idiom:
have/take pity on
To show compassion for.

Synonyms: pity, compassion, commiseration, sympathy, condolence, empathy
These nouns signify kindly concern aroused by the misfortune, affliction, or suffering of another. Pity often implies a feeling of sorrow that inclines one to help or to show mercy: felt pity for the outcast. Compassion denotes deep awareness of the suffering of another and the wish to relieve it: ?Compassion is not weakness, and concern for the unfortunate is not socialism? (Hubert H. Humphrey). Commiseration signifies the expression of pity or sorrow: expressed their commiseration over the failure of the experiment. Sympathy denotes the act of or capacity for sharing in the sorrows or troubles of another: ?They had little sympathy to spare for their unfortunate enemies? (William Hickling Prescott). Condolence is a formal, conventional expression of pity, usually to relatives upon a death: extending condolences to the bereaved family. Empathy is an identification with and understanding of another's situation, feelings, and motives: Having changed schools several times as a child, I feel empathy for the transfer students.
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Offline Anonymous

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rich
« Reply #25 on: July 14, 2006, 11:24:28 AM »
I live near, not in, cluster subdivisions where the homes start at half a million, some where the homes start at three quarters of a million.

I suppose most folks would consider those "the rich".

Most of the rich people I've met didn't make their money on the backs of others.  At least, not anymore than we all do.  I write books.  People buy the books, I get a cut.  You could say I "made money on their backs" because they had to pay in order to walk out of the store with the book.  You could say I "made money on the backs" of the low paid employees somewhere in the bowels of the publishing, distributing, and book selling system.  

Except that those folks would probably be pissed off if someone said, "Oh, we cannot exploit you anymore, we are closing this horrible capitalist enterprise, fly, be free!"  If the former employers then said you talked them into it, the newly unemployed would probably come egg your house. ;-)

I'm not rich.  Writing doesn't pay as much as geeking, which I used to do, so it's a lifestyle choice.

Most of the rich people I know: a few are doctors, some own one or more small businesses, some work in executive positions doing some sort of mental gruntwork.  Example: my cousin's husband makes mid six figures as the Chief Financial Officer of an explosives company in a mining city.  He's not Ebeneezer Scrooge.  He's a number cruncher.  Sort of a Bob Cratchett with fair pay, a hell of a lot of talent, and economies of scale.

It's hard to put the rich in pigeonholes by what they do, because if there was a cookie-cutter ticket to fortune, a lot more people would be doing it. ;-)  

Most rich people didn't hurt a damned soul to get where they are.  They just had a good talent at something, worked hard and made the most of it, and exercised iron-clad financial discipline to avoid making foolish money decisions---like lots of high interest debt, forex.

Rich people, whatever their talents, almost all share one single, shining, exceptional talent:  the ability to delay gratification.

There are some rich scumbags.  I wouldn't invite the Litchfields to dinner, nor accept their invitation if, god knows why, they invited me.

Most rich people are not scumbags.  They just have wealth-generating and wealth-protecting lifestyle habits instead of poverty lifestyle habits.

Most poor people are poor because they lack some of the money habits middle class kids, like me, soaked up with our mothers' milk.

I've had enough poor friends to see it over and over again.

I've been poor--for a few tough years.  I didn't stay that way.  If I'd made the day in and day out repeated money mistakes that my poor friends make, I'd still be poor.

Not exactly their fault, just that there are things they don't know or habits they're not willing to have that would make the difference between being poor and at least lower middle class.  At minimum.

If they'd started using good money habits and delayed gratification and using their best talents back when the rich did, they'd be rich.

Like I said, I was a middle class kid.  That's normal to me.  Like most people, I'd like to be rich, but I'm not driven to be rich.  Which is why I'm not rich. ;-)

Julie
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Offline Deborah

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I used to hate people. but now...
« Reply #26 on: July 14, 2006, 01:47:13 PM »
You sound like Tony Robbins today, Julie, or whoever wrote the book about the Habits of "Successful" People.

What a narrow view of the larger reality.
Let's say all the poor people changed their 'habits' as you call them, determined to 'delay gratification' as you say, and went in deep debt for a college education.

Would there be well paying professional jobs for that mass (majority) of people? No. I have friends who did all those things and can't find positions in their field. I have a number of close friends who incured debt and went into social work who are earning incomes that would qualify for working class or poor status depending on where one lives.

Who is responsible for the ceiling on minimum wage? Why isn?t there a ceiling on other class?s earnings? A ceiling on what CEOs earn? Why aren?t there enough jobs that pay a living wage?  Why do people believe there should be no assistance in a system that is designed so that some will live in poverty even if they work two jobs- is that just a "bad habit"? Why is there so much disgust and disdain for those who can?t pull themselves up by their boot straps when they don?t even have fucking boots? The only "bad habit" I can see is a fucked up class system based on a foundation of greed and fear.

If all these people (with bad "habits") developed "good" habits- If every person had a degree and there were actually enough professional jobs to go around, can you imagine what society would look like? Would it function well? Who do you think would cook your burgers and pizzas; fix your car; grow your food, ship it, stock it and sack your groceries; make the clothes you're wearing; clean your homes, offices and schools; maintain your lawn and pool; care for your children; dig ditches; build roads and other infrastructure; produce your books, etc. etc. Get the picture?  Isn?t society dependent on diversity? Of course it is. Therefore, what about a living wage for all doesn't make sense?

And don't come back with the elitest notion that your or any other middle class or owning class person's contribution to society is somehow more valuable than anyone elses. That's a crock of shit. If all the low wage working people went on strike for a month society would grind to a halt. Unfortuantely they live hand to mouth and they would be hurt more than those who are dependent on their "skills" which are underpaid and under appreciated.

I'm guessing there was probably someone who saw to it that you had food to eat and a place to live while you were getting your education- pretty typical of middle class anyway, not typical for working/poor. Middle class kids usually don't get weaned from their mama's tit until they graduate college. You consider that "delaying gratification"?

Yeh, if you aren't actually producing the product or providing the service you're profiting from, you are making your living off the backs of those who do that work for you. Chances are good that you will live well, while your slaves barely live. While there are many exceptions to the general rule, the playing field is not level and equal opportunity is a myth.

As for your doctor friends, they kinda fall in a grey catagory. They usually own the business and do at least some of the labor. If the fees they charged were proportionate to the average wage, they wouldn't be rich. They would be living comfortably like everyone else and people would not being going without medical care because they can't afford it.
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Offline Anonymous

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I used to hate people. but now...
« Reply #27 on: July 14, 2006, 08:23:17 PM »
I actually agreed with deborah on one level and Julie on another. I agree that middle class people are able to produce a better life style for their kids because they get enough money in their pay packets to both gratify their wants & also increase their wealth by putting some of it away so I think the comparison is unfair because it is comparing apples with oranges.
I also agree that no capitalist economy can run without a working class & that it is al too easy for the middle classes everywhere to sit back and talk about delaying gratification to get out of the poverty cycle. I would imagine though that if I had to work in a demanding and physically stressful job or even two just to get enough money to put food on the table I would be pretty unwilling to give up the few immediate pleasures that i could afford.
I also think that in western countries class is more complex than just salary. There are many jobs which require a middle class education like social work and teaching & which have great benefit in shaping a society yet which are not paid very highly at all. This says a lot about what western cultures value. People in the human services socially fit in with the middle classes but are not paid to accurately reflect what they do because their jobs do not actively generate money.

Having said that there I think there is something to be said for the idea that we are products of our upbringing. It makes sense that if from birth kids are told that they are going to achieve big things etc & the family has the money to back this up by providing a good education etc, then of course they have far more choices in life.

There was a really interesting documentary on social class made about 3 years ago in America called People Like Us
the link to the website is
/www.pbs.org/peoplelikeus/

One thing that jars me when thinking aboout the people who work in this "teen industry" is the Marvin Lee Anderson case. I can see logically how a person can buy into the idea of "manipulation" etc & neglect a kid till it dies or even become overzealous while restraining a kid but those guys literally kicked a kid to death. He was not fighting back. He was not sitting being observed in an uncomfortable position for too long, he was just being kicked until he died. This seems to be more like murder than manslaughter to me

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Offline Oz girl

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I used to hate people. but now...
« Reply #28 on: July 14, 2006, 08:25:56 PM »
Doh. forgot to log in again. That previous poster was me. Only the weblink was meant to be in bold not the entire last paragraph!
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n case you\'re worried about what\'s going to become of the younger generation, it\'s going to grow up and start worrying about the younger generation.-Roger Allen

Offline Anonymous

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I used to hate people. but now...
« Reply #29 on: July 15, 2006, 01:37:42 AM »
Nickel and Dimed: On (Not) Getting By in America
Barbara Ehrenreich
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/ ... i_78966516
http://www.usmayors.org/uscm/us_mayor_n ... _dimed.asp

CENTER FOR ECONOMIC AND POLICY RESEARCH
For Immediate Release: Tuesday, October 18, 2005
75% OF AMERICAN WORKERS DON'T HAVE DECENT WAGES AND BENEFITS
Washington, DC -- Only 25.2 percent of American workers have a job that pays at least $16 per hour and provides health insurance and a pension, according to a new study by the Center for Economic and Policy Research.
Full report:
http://www.barbaraehrenreich.com/decent_wages.htm

~~

75% of Americans are working class/poor earning $30K (or less) per year. That's a lot of people. And certainly doesn't support the notion that people are poor, aren't "successful", because they lack skill or motivation or can't/won't delay gratification. All propoganda designed to misinform and further divide the classes.
 
The '06 HHS Poverty Guidelines
Persons in Family or Household/ 48 Contiguous States and D.C./ Alaska/ Hawaii
1- $ 9,800 $12,250 $11,270
2- 13,200 16,500 15,180
3- 16,600 20,750 19,090
4- 20,000 25,000 23,000
5- 23,400 29,250 26,910
6- 26,800 33,500 30,820
7- 30,200 37,750 34,730
8- 33,600 42,000 38,640
For each additional person, add  3,400  4,250  3,910

Way too low. Any wonder most working class people classify themselves as middle class when asked?
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