Author Topic: I used to hate people. but now...  (Read 7089 times)

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Offline OverLordd

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I used to hate people. but now...
« on: July 13, 2006, 02:12:50 AM »
You guys, well most of you anyway, know me. You know my earlly posts, you know the hate I tossed around and the vitrol I spewed at people that supported programs and this that and the other. My promises to do this that and the other or whatever. You could tell, I really used to hate these people. Well, after about 3 years, of thinking, growing, examing, I can really say I dont hate these people any more, at all, not one bit.

I pity them.

Yes I pity them now. I mean honestly. Who wants that job? Who wants to be acused of abusing children for a job. Weither they are abusing people or not, its got to get tireing after a while. They have rabid dogs after them in the forms of so many support groups its mind numbing, and only the fractured nature of the groups keeps them from being over run. I'm sure the people that run the programs get up in the morning, kiss their wives, and pray to god they dont get any hate mail. What kind of life is that?
They have to deal with crazy kids all day, I mean honestly, if you were not crazy before hand, you will be after getting tossed away from your family into a place like that. Who in the world would want do that. I think even Ginger, in all her benifience, would crack after a while.
Come on, were call the ones involved in the deaths of students muderers, but how do you think they feel. "Oh holy shit! The kid died on me!" Do you think they are really that sick as to kill a kid in cold blood? Sure its mansalughter, but manslaughter is not murder.
Think about that for a second. Thats really got to suck! Your getting charged with manslaughter, your facing a lawsuit, and you lost your job. I pity that! Thats not something to hate. Thats something to shake your head at and keep walking.

Some people would say that im going soft, and that I got hit hard resently so im toneing down my retoric, but honestly guys, would you rather your parents be mad at you, or be disapointed. Its kind of like that. Its better to have a enemy you can be prideful infront of, and debate, instead of one that just pities you, and wants to see you change what you do, because not only does it suck for those that you do it to, but it also sucks for you.

But there are people I still hate, well... reject maybe... well... I dont know if thats a strong enough word either. I will figgure it out as I go along. But the people I still (strong word meaning dislike to the point of rage) are those that run programs in the name of God using the name of God. As a Christian I really cant stand for that and it gets my goat.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
our walking down a hallway, you turn left, you turn right. BRICK WALL!

GAH!!!!

Yeah, hes a survivor.

Offline Anonymous

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I used to hate people. but now...
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2006, 07:47:31 AM »
I'll address the most important point first: You can either say "Oh my fucking GOD we fucking KILLED HIM" - OR -  you can say "Heh, little brat had it coming anyway. He probably deserved it."

The second prevents them from challenging the brainwashing they as counselors received and makes them feel better about themselves. They've already helped commit acts of massive abuse. Killing someone is just another step down the dark abyss. Showing remorse would be the same as admitting they're actually in said abyss.

On the other hand, given the nature of the beast, any one of them, at any time, can snap out of it, 'turn', and start taking these places down. Most of them simply quit and try to wash the scum off their hands (hence the truly massive turnover). Those that don't, who stay and continue instead of doing something more ethical, aren't worthy of pity and should probably be gassed.

And the people who run these places are way too far gone to care about children's lives, let alone people's opinions.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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I used to hate people. but now...
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2006, 09:12:58 AM »
Overlord, it's great you are no longer angry, but you might feel a lot different if it had been you who had been physically and emotionally abused. To just read about it is one thing, to live with the experience for the rest of your life is another. I am still angry. I don't believe the people working for those places give a shit what we think of them. Your portrayal of their horrible lives is wishful thinking. A more likely scenario goes like this... program owner wakes up in his huge bed with his beautiful wife in his mansion on the hill. Gets in his corvette, drives down to the office, gives all his employees a hard time to sell more, then spends the rest of the day at the beach, laughing all the way to the bank. This is the reality.
You call them your enemy, but that is not true. From the day you arrived at this forum it was obvious to me you were vying for the support of program supporters. I don't know why, but it seems to happen a lot to young folks to take up this cause, but were never personally effected. They seem to enjoy the back and forth with parents, probably because they have their own issues with their parents.
If somebody locks you in a cage and beats the shit out of you for their own amusement, and you tell the owner of the camp only to be told to shut up and told you are powerless, it's not so easy to turn off the hate.
So please, don't go declaring peace and claim to represent a group you have very little in common with.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline OverLordd

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I used to hate people. but now...
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2006, 10:04:59 AM »
Quote
I am glad you let this one out of the bag and not me.


I dont understand what you mean TSW.

And Milk Gargling Death Penal, do you really think that these guys are that far gone as to not be effected by the death of a human being? Of course there are some people that are really messed up. Of course humanity is depraved, but not that depraved. I dont think they are far gone enough not to care about lives, or people opinions, other wise we wouldent have some of them defending them selfs on this board.

Ok, guest, you know, if you have been here sence I have been here, wouldent you think about getting a login? Your right about one thing, and I should of made this clear to begin with. But no matter how much their life bites, or how much I pity them, it does not justify their actions. Continuing on, don't say im not personally affected, never say that. I have lost 2 friends to these places, and I have been yelled at by the feds for my words against these places, as well as a list of other things. Dont think I'm not affected. I'm not declaring any peace, I still dont like the places. Your trying to put words in my mouth, so cut it out.

And get a log in!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
our walking down a hallway, you turn left, you turn right. BRICK WALL!

GAH!!!!

Yeah, hes a survivor.

Offline Anonymous

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I used to hate people. but now...
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2006, 11:29:45 AM »
It must be freeing to be so naive, OL.  :-? [/quote]
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline OverLordd

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I used to hate people. but now...
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2006, 11:40:44 AM »
Explane what you mean, I dont know what your refering to.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
our walking down a hallway, you turn left, you turn right. BRICK WALL!

GAH!!!!

Yeah, hes a survivor.

Offline Anonymous

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I used to hate people. but now...
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2006, 11:51:53 AM »
Overlord,
You seem like a very nice person.

But I have no pity for the Sudweeks at Whitmore Academy.

I have no pity for Cheryl Sudweeks:
How do you pity a woman who chose to spit on children, to withold food from children as punishment, to throw a child down a flight of stairs, to call a child a "nigger,"......I could go on and on.

But why bother?

No: I have no pity for that woman.

Joyce Harris
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anne Bonney

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Re: I used to hate people. but now...
« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2006, 12:27:20 PM »
Quote from: ""OverLordd""
I'm sure the people that run the programs get up in the morning, kiss their wives, and pray to god they dont get any hate mail. What kind of life is that?

The kind of life they deserve for allowing this shit to continue and actively participating in it.  Besides, I don't think that's accurate at all.  More likely what TSW or MGDP (forgot which one wrote the opposite scennario) wrote is more accurate.


Quote
They have to deal with crazy kids all day, I mean honestly, if you were not crazy before hand, you will be after getting tossed away from your family into a place like that. Who in the world would want do that.

Then they can get out anytime they want.  But they don't.

Quote
I think even Ginger, in all her benifience, would crack after a while.

Nope, b/c she would never be involved in one in the first place.


Quote
Come on, were call the ones involved in the deaths of students muderers, but how do you think they feel. "Oh holy shit! The kid died on me!" Do you think they are really that sick as to kill a kid in cold blood? Sure its mansalughter, but manslaughter is not murder.

This is the most absurd part of your post.  You want me to pity the people who actually caused the death of a kid?   Again, I don't think they feel any real guilt.   They see themselves as being a savior, doing a service and if a kid happens to die in the process, well it's collateral damage.


Quote
Think about that for a second. Thats really got to suck! Your getting charged with manslaughter, your facing a lawsuit, and you lost your job.

I know, the poor dears. :roll:


Quote
I pity that! Thats not something to hate. Thats something to shake your head at and keep walking.


I hate it.  I hate them.  I can't keep walking,  I feel a need to speak out.

Quote
Some people would say that im going soft, and that I got hit hard resently so im toneing down my retoric, but honestly guys, would you rather your parents be mad at you, or be disapointed. Its kind of like that.

No, it's not like that at all.  It's very different.  As a kid you'd rather your parents be pissed and not disappointed because you care about your parents and what they think.   You have a long standing relationship with them.  There is no such relationship with programs.  Those people could give a shit if people are "disappointed" in them.

Its better to have a enemy you can be prideful infront of, and debate, instead of one that just pities you, and wants to see you change what you do, because not only does it suck for those that you do it to, but it also sucks for you.

Quote
But there are people I still hate, well... reject maybe... well... I dont know if thats a strong enough word either. I will figgure it out as I go along. But the people I still (strong word meaning dislike to the point of rage) are those that run programs in the name of God using the name of God. As a Christian I really cant stand for that and it gets my goat.


They're no different than any other program.  They all claim to be doing this for the benefit of the kids and families, they all claim to have the answer, they all claim to be the savior.


Overlordd, I am disappointed in you.  This is a sad turn of events.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
traight, St. Pete, early 80s
AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa

Offline teachback

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« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline OverLordd

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I used to hate people. but now...
« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2006, 12:52:53 PM »
Maybe I'm not explaining my self properly, let me expand my view so hjopefully some can understand. I view pity as worse than hate. You hate a equal, you hate a person, you hate and idea.

Pity is condicending in nature. You pity a dog that got kicked, you pity people whos own actions got them in their perdicament. You hold these people up to your children as what not to do. I would rather be hated than pitied. Pity is a much worse emotion to me than hate ever could be.

Quote
Quote:
I think even Ginger, in all her benifience, would crack after a while.


Nope, b/c she would never be involved in one in the first place


I meant if she had to take care of tons of crazy kids all day.

Anyway, Anne, I think your coming at this through a completely diffrent world view than I am. I am talking about individuals, not their actions, and not the consiquences of said actions. I pity the person, the soul, not the actions, or the consiquences.

Joyce, I'm just commenting on what I feel for these sad little people that need to do this job to feel good about them selfs. Feel as you please.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
our walking down a hallway, you turn left, you turn right. BRICK WALL!

GAH!!!!

Yeah, hes a survivor.

Offline Antigen

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I used to hate people. but now...
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2006, 01:07:09 PM »
Thanks, Ann, but I can't take credit for that. I did fall for it in a big way.

I was just writing about that in the Seed forum:
http://wwf.avigation.net/viewtopic.php?p=206891#206891

Not that I ever told myself I liked it or really approved. But it got me, it got me, it got me so damned hard that, if it hadn't been for that moment of clarity coinciding w/ an unusal turn of events in the room, why I might very easily have sat there blithely, unknowingly, even glibly approving while my dear friend and the other unfortunate strangers thrown into that timeout room beat Bobby the rest of the way to death.

And no, anon, I don't think it's reasonable to expect anyone to just snap out of it and turn coat. When you realize for the first time just how out of touch w/ reality you are in that situation, the first order of business to to get as far away, physically and mentally, from the fucked up social scene as you possibly can and then try to pull the tattered remnants of sanity back into some sort of cohesive fabric. Took me some years, really. Some people never do really come around. I think most people don't ever come around to where they can face the reality of what fucking savage animals we all are by default.

I think that's the crux of conflict between the 'get over it' crowd and those of us who can't seem to unsee the influences back and forth between Program philosophy and broader society.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
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Offline Anne Bonney

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I used to hate people. but now...
« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2006, 01:09:53 PM »
Quote from: ""OverLordd""
Pity is condicending in nature. You pity a dog that got kicked,

A dog doesn't do anything to deserve to be kicked, so yes I pity a dog that's abused.  I have no pity for these assholes

Quote
you pity people whos own actions got them in their perdicament.

No, I don't.  I pity people who suffered at the hands of others for no action of their own.

Quote
I meant if she had to take care of tons of crazy kids all day.


But these people are most often the one's who MAKE the kids crazy!  How can I pity them for having to work with crazy kids when THEY'RE the ones that made them that way? :roll:

Quote
Anyway, Anne, I think your coming at this through a completely diffrent world view than I am. I am talking about individuals, not their actions, and not the consiquences of said actions. I pity the person, the soul, not the actions, or the consiquences.



I'll agree with you there.  I'm coming at this from the POV of someone who's experienced their bullshit first hand.  I regularly go and "visit" the main perpetrator of my abuse.  He has no remorse, no guilt, still says that we deserved what we got, still says that he was "helping".  I have NO pity for him or his fucking wife.  And I never will.  Ever.
Hell, I"ll be dancing on his grave.  Maybe in the near future from the looks of him recently.  He ain't the pitcher o health. :rofl:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
traight, St. Pete, early 80s
AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa

Offline Anonymous

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I used to hate people. but now...
« Reply #12 on: July 13, 2006, 01:10:57 PM »
As with my post this morning, I don't have a lot of time to talk.

Overlordd- what are you smoking? The guest that posted after me was right on the money. They really are that depraved. If they wanted to stop the brutality, the brutality would stop.

The owners of these places can kill kids all day without losing half a second's sleep. They're far more worried about what it costs to their business than the actual kid. This is the way these people are. If they were any other way, these places wouldn't exist. Chew on that one for a while. Institutions reflect the personalities of their owners. If the place is brutal and inhuman, it's because it's run by someone like that.

Of course, if it was legal, I could kill the owners of these places all day without losing half a second's sleep. I'd even shout UT2004-isms while doing it. "First Blood!" "OWNED!" "Double Kill!" "Killing Spree!'

You can "not like" and "pity" all you want. The rest of us are going to find ways to get these shitholes shut down.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anne Bonney

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I used to hate people. but now...
« Reply #13 on: July 13, 2006, 01:18:44 PM »
Quote from: ""Eudora""
Thanks, Ann, but I can't take credit for that. I did fall for it in a big way.



I understand that.  I think you're referring to the kids that went on staff or the like (haven't had a chance to get over to Seed forum yet).  Yes, I can feel pity for them.  But the assholes that start and run these places....FUCK NO.

I fell for it too.  I"m sure that when I was in there I treated some people like shit.   Afterwards I bought into all the bullshit about how I was the fucked up one, not my parents.  Spent the better part of 20 years fighting them and the inlaws for custody and coming out of the fog but once I was physically out of the program I never hurt anyone else, at least in that manner.  And I never would have dreamed of opening up a program.  Neither would you have Eudora. :wink:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
traight, St. Pete, early 80s
AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa

Offline Antigen

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I used to hate people. but now...
« Reply #14 on: July 13, 2006, 01:42:22 PM »
No really. I think that if things hadn't gone beyond the pale as they did at that time, I was sort of on the fence. Two years w/o a break except for the kind of 'rest' one can get while living on the lamb as a runaway minor took it's toll. Honestly, if it had been less obvious, less intensely hostile and violent, I might well have fallen for it. It's not that I would have loved breaking and hurting people. It's that, given the psyche pressures and whole Twilight Zone setting, the easiest thing in the world is to believe that you're helping and not hurting and to throw yourself into it w/ reckless abandon.

I saw a lot of ppl do that. And I have to find some sympathy for this right now after seeing my family. I just have to understand how my dear brother could have become the kind of old man who takes pleasure in calling the cops on teenagers out after 10PM and, when challenged on that, tell me in words that he's saving their lives.

If I can't understand that somehow, I have to hate him and I can't do that either.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
~ Crosby Stills Nash & Young, Sweet Judy Blue Eyes