The Who

[TheWho]

Oh no no no Cindy, you claimed there was a "long debate" and that it was decided that "we" were only going to look at TBS's as you define them.

Who specifically is "we"?

The debate was long, Bob...  many wanted to start with "Wilderness data" and I argued that the real money was in the TBS industry, so lets start there, although wilderness is usually the inital phase of any decent TBS.  So we went round and round....you, Bob have been a key player in collecting and presenting data on the entire industry and I have been focusing on small segments at a time.
I dont want to put names out there, people want to be anon's.

[RobertBruce]

Riiiiiiight. Even stuffed animals and dogs have names Cindy, its okay this is a safe place. Admit it, this debate consisted of you and you alone.

[psy]

Oh who...  this is a joke right.. so.. who are you really..

Milk... no.. he doesn't have the patience... and he's better at analogies
Oz?  no.. she has better things to do
deb, ditto
Zen.. naw...  not
Exhausted...  doubt it ... highly doubt it.
Niles... nope.  much better logic
Cassandra/ginger...  i don't think it's her sense of humor
DJ.... doubt it
RB.... that would be truly odd

The maybes:

TSW?  hmm...  perhaps.. he is an ass.. and he does like trolling people incessantly for the sheer fun of it.

The guess:

Muldoon?  hmm...  It is a distinct possability... but he has a few very distinctive aspects to his punctuation (unless somebody tipped him off)

[psy]

whoever it is... i could strangle him/her for this:
http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=245384#245384

That was a huge concern for us also, shipping her off as you say. As far as treatment we had a therapist that was independent from the TBS see my daughter each week (except when she traveled to Costa Rica) and her Therapist kept in contact with her therapist at home . So that way if there were any medical concerns, i.e, clinical depression, TBS not being effective for her etc. we could pull her out and seek other options.

Sick jokes taken too far...

When i read that.. i knew TSW wouldn't have done it... so it has to be somebody who doesn't care too much about the kids.

[Ganja]

I am Satan.

[psy]

What the hell, I'll admit it- I'm TheWho; it's been me all along.

get The Who to admit it and i'll believe you...

On the other hand... who on Fornits would have visited Romania...  that information was genuine...  Although he did misspell some names... but that's common.  Chisinau, Moldova.. for example......  Moldova is not technically Romania..  and romanians aren't very fond of them: "mai bun sigani ca moldavian!" (better gypsy than moldavian)..

[TheWho]

whoever it is... i could strangle him/her for this:
http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=245384#245384

That was a huge concern for us also, shipping her off as you say. As far as treatment we had a therapist that was independent from the TBS see my daughter each week (except when she traveled to Costa Rica) and her Therapist kept in contact with her therapist at home . So that way if there were any medical concerns, i.e, clinical depression, TBS not being effective for her etc. we could pull her out and seek other options.

Sick jokes taken too far...

When i read that.. i knew TSW wouldn't have done it... so it has to be somebody who doesn't care too much about the kids.

Out of all the responses...some even suggesting military school of all places... and a couple of honest responses from another parent sharing his experiences seems to offend?......That is a very strange reaction, psy.

[psy]

whoever it is... i could strangle him/her for this:
http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=245384#245384

That was a huge concern for us also, shipping her off as you say. As far as treatment we had a therapist that was independent from the TBS see my daughter each week (except when she traveled to Costa Rica) and her Therapist kept in contact with her therapist at home . So that way if there were any medical concerns, i.e, clinical depression, TBS not being effective for her etc. we could pull her out and seek other options.

Sick jokes taken too far...

When i read that.. i knew TSW wouldn't have done it... so it has to be somebody who doesn't care too much about the kids.

Out of all the responses...some even suggesting military school of all places... and a couple of honest responses from another parent sharing his experiences seems to offend?......That is a very strange reaction, psy.

Look.  If you were sincere, i apologize.  But as it is, it seems as if you are a troll.  Why?  Who the hell would claim they met with people from fornits in Chicago...  And if you did... why?  Answer the questions please:

1. Why are you collecting this data? What is the purpose? Why do you want to do a study on this issue?

2. Are you in any way financially tied to the troubled teen industry?

3. Are you playing devil's advocate?

[Anonymous]

It's not actually doing a study, Psy. :roll:

[psy]

well that was my initial assumption...  i mentioned it about 80 pages ago on this thread... (and yes i ignored it until just recently)...  However.  There are things i am still curious about.  Why? ask me on IM

[TheWho]

Psy wrote:

1. Why are you collecting this data? What is the purpose? Why do you want to do a study on this issue?

Well there has been much discussion on this forum (on and off) over the past years on kids dying and committing suicide in these places and I find it hard to believe if the rate was so high that someone would?nt do something about it.  When I asked for specifics I received a list of kids who died of restraints, died at home, boat accidents, heart attacks in the woods etc. and there didn?t seem to be any semblance to the collecting of this data nor conditions for adding names so nothing was clear to me.  I understand kids die in treatment, kids die everywhere.  So what could we compare it to?  The NCES collects data on Homicides and Suicides in the public sector so we could bounce some numbers off of what they have.  As most people know when collecting data for comparison purposes that you need to define parameters, we took the same parameters the NCES used so we could get as close as possible to apples and apples.  So that is why we stayed with Homicides and suicides, because the NCES has comparable data available.  We chose a small segment to start (TBS?s) to see how the data plays out and figure out a collection and presentation method etc.  anyway to make a long story short.  The data may help parents aid in their decision on choosing or not choosing a TBS or choosing the right TBS and eventually this may expose the programs which have a high rate and seem ineffective and allow others to float to the top??..

2. Are you in any way financially tied to the troubled teen industry?

No

3. Are you playing devil's advocate?

Not now?.although I will take this position if I feel the conversation is lacking a perspective?..for example.  if a group of parents are talking about how all TBS are great I may hop in and indicate that some kids have done poorly and have not been helped by the industry.  And vice versa

[psy]

Not now?.although I will take this position if I feel the conversation is lacking a perspective?..for example. if a group of parents are talking about how all TBS are great I may hop in and indicate that some kids have done poorly and have not been helped by the industry. And vice versa

Aha.  So your "agenda" is simply to "facilitate debate/discussion"(troll) by making sure the discussion does not become too one-sided...(troll)  i see.

So.  Here is a question:

1. in what form/manner would you release the results of such data collection?  
2. With which organization

whoops.. time for french class

[TheWho]

psy wrote:

Aha. So your "agenda" is simply to "facilitate debate/discussion"(troll) by making sure the discussion does not become too one-sided...(troll) i see.

No? no agenda.  I have just taken the devils advocates position from time to time, not just on fornits but in general.

So. Here is a question:

1. in what form/manner would you release the results of such data collection?
2. With which organization

Not, sure?..dont have any plans to release the data, just taking a look

whoops.. time for french class

plus tard

[TheWho]

Aha. So your "agenda" is simply to "facilitate debate/discussion"(troll) by making sure the discussion does not become too one-sided...(troll) i see

I noticed the ?Troll? you mentioned.  When I heard people use this here I always thought it was given to people who were causing trouble or just interested in disrupting the conversation for fun.  I never knew it meant posters who went against the group speak or spoke against a majority.  If this is the case then I guess I would be considered a troll here on fornits, I would have to admit??  so actively trolling is more being stubborn and sticking with a minority position and refusing to join the group., interesting.

[Troll Control]

Nah, Who, you're not a troll.  Trolling really involves some sort of deception or active sabotage.

That being said, some people may take your steadfast adherence to debunked data as "trolling" because many of the assertions you make are factually bereft.  We've all learned that, even though it seems you intend these items to be interpreted as fact, when you're pressed, you always admit it's your opinion.

I, for one, don't believe you're a troll.  You're just incredibly misguided on a number of issues.  Ignorance is actually a defense to trolling, as trolling requires willful deception.  

You's jus' ig'nant!