The Who

[RobertBruce]

Yet you said she did so which is it?

Also still waiting on you to become brave enough to answer the questions.

[TheWho]

Oz Girl Wrote:

......your daughter not speaking to you for 2 years as you say happened

Oz Girl, When my daughter first came home she had a difficult time readjusting and went back to her old crowd for a few weeks.  I was really nervous but gave her the space she needed?.we kept the lines of communication open and she eventually saw that she wanted to move on to a more mature crowd which she did.  It was a slingshot type effect.  She was in this safe place and then entered back into her old environment and reverted back for a time.  She moved on with her schooling and our relationship has not been better, there was no running off or breakdown in communication.

[RobertBruce]

Yet you claimed earlier she didnt speak to you for two years. Deborah has already provided the link proving you made this comment.

Now when are you going to stop being such a weak little girl and answer those questions?

[TheWho]

I am attempting to change the layout to facilitate easier comparison from year to year and clarify where the source data comes from.  Here is a first cut.

For the year 2001 - 2002 I have not found any data to fit the data set.  If anyone knows of any data, let me know:


Remember this applies only to TBS?s (not group homes and hospitals etc.)

So I am simple comparing a child?s safety at a TBS (24 hours per day) vs not being at a TBS (24 hours per day)
We have this data to present
:
July 1, 1999 thru June 2000

Outside a TBS: -----There where 2,140 Homicides and 1,928 suicides (NCES)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 2 suicides.*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001  

Outside a TBS: -----There where 2,059 Homicides and 1,890 suicides (NCES)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 1 suicide.  (Data set still open)*
 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2001 thru June 2002  

Outside a TBS: -----There where 2,053 Homicides and 1,777 suicides (NCES)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 0 suicides.  (No data found)*

NCES ? National Center for Education Statistics
* - Data found here on fornits, internet new articles, posts and PM?s

[Oz girl]

i am just quoting what you previously said Who. But anyway.
Do you think that ASR dealth with Ashley in an appropriate and professional manner?

[RobertBruce]

Shucks.....well I guess I should have expected it, Cindy just didnt learn the first time.

Oh well I can be patient.

Here we go again. Cindy while Im putting together those figures to prove you wrong again how about you grow some balls and answer the questions?

[RobertBruce]

Here's the first year:

Out of 52,000,000 public school kids 16 were killed in school

Translating to 1 out of every 3,250,000 kids being killed.

Out of those 52,000,000 6 committed suicide while in school.

Translating to 1 out of 8,666,667 kids killing themselves.

Of those same 52,000,000 kids 2140 were killed outside of school.

Translating to 1 out of every 24,300 kids being killed.

Of those same 52,000,000 public school kids 1928 kids committed suicide outside of school.

Translating to roughly 1 out of every 27,000 kids committing suicide.

Out of 20,000 kids in the private theraputic sector so far we have 7 who were killed by staff members.

Translating to 1 out of every 2,857 kids being murdered by staff.

Of those same 20,000 kids 2 committed suicide.

Translating to 1 out of every 10,000 committing suicide.

This is of course for only one year June of 1999-July 2000

[RobertBruce]

The second year:

In the public sector out of 52,000,000 kids 2059 were killed outside of school, roughly translating to:

1 out of every 25,255 kids being killed outside of school.

Of those same 52,000,000 1,890 committed suicide outside of school.

Translating to roughly

1 out of every 27,513 kids committing suicide outside of school.

In school out of 52,000,000 17 kids were killed. Translating to:

1 out of every 3,058,824 kids being killed in school.

Of those same 52,000,000 5 kids committed suicide while in school.

Translating to:

1 out of every 10,400,000 kids killing themselves while in school.

In the Private Theraputic Sector out of 20,000 kids 6 kids were killed by staff members, translating to:

1 out of every 3,334 kids being killed by staff members.

Of those same 20,000 kids 1 committed suicide, translating to:

1 out of every 20,000 kids killing themselves.

[TheWho]

Like I said Bob, your numbers are great but we are talking about 2 different data sets and 2 different sets of parameters.  I have taken your data and pasted it into my database and we reviewed it.  It is valuable information and will be used in some limited capacity when we expand the data set to include other areas like "Wilderness"  "boot camp", "hospitals" etc.  so your work hasnt been for nothing...thanks

[RobertBruce]

Hey Cindy that's great, and I do recall you babbeling a great deal about how you wanted to include it later. The thing is parents need the information now, all the information, not just what you and whoever decided they needed or should be allowed to see.

Speaking of which Im still waiting on you to explain to us who "we" really is.

See if you cant handle that.

[Anonymous]

 My daughter was there about 16 months and she didnt run off or stop speaking to me.......

yea, that wasn't until AFTER she got out.

When was the time period when she wouldn't talk to you?

[RobertBruce]

On February 6, 2002, 14-year old Matthew Goodman, died after he was kept in mechanical restraints for 16 months at the Bancroft Institution in Haddenfield, New Jersey. He died from pneumonia, respiratory distress, and blood poisoning.


On February 14, 2002, 15-year old Latasha Bush died from complications of mechanical restraint and asphyxia after being restrained at the Daystar Residential Treatment Center in Southeast Texas. A DPRS investigation concluded she died after being restrained. The medical examiner listed mechanical asphyxiation as the cause of death.

On March 7, 2002, 14-year old Cedric Napoleon died as a result of being restrained at the Manor Middle School in Killeen, Texas.

This one doesnt actually fit for what were discussing because he was killed by his teachers in a public school. I just wanted to mention him because I unlike Cindy am unwilling to dismiss these children and their deaths simply because they dont prove my point.

The Denver Post

May 20, 2002

A teenage girl committed suicide Friday night at Devereux Cleo Wallace residential treatment center in Westminster, police said Sunday.

The 17-year-old was found hanging, according to Westminster police investigator Troy Cooper. The girl's name was not released. The center was her only listed address.

[TheWho]

Well, I PM?d several people here on fornits and eventually we formed a ?Statistical group? and decided to meet at the Hyatt in Chicago about a month ago.  We spent 3 days hammering out a direction and figured we would tackle the TBS sector first.  We felt you were well respected here at fornits and had your hands around the other areas and were doing fine independently.  Your name was brought up several times so you were not forgotten or left out.

[Anonymous]

You people are insane.

[TheWho]

 My daughter was there about 16 months and she didnt run off or stop speaking to me.......

yea, that wasn't until AFTER she got out.

When was the time period when she wouldn't talk to you?

Her first 16 months of life, I spoke to her, but she didn?t respond back at first . she eventually started...ever since then we have communicated fairly well until she was in her early teens,  we struggled with our communication among other things.  Our communication improved during her time at ASR and continued until this day with out interruption.  So I would have to say her first 16 months of life?