The Who

[TheWho]

Why don't so many of these schools just advertise as what they are, programs? Answer that question.

Not sure?.. I don?t think parents know what a program is and the beds might be empty if they wrote that on their shingle, I don?t think it says enough.  If you say Therapeutic boarding school and describe the structure and meet the staff and psychologists, talk to other parents and it comes recommended by your child?s therapist (who should be advocating only for the child).... it seems like a safer step to take.

[RobertBruce]

They don't advertise what they are because they are trying to stay under the radar of state agencies, gotta avoid that pesky regulation. Something CIndy advocates whole heartedly and wishes he could get away with himself.

[psy]

Why don't so many of these schools just advertise as what they are, programs? Answer that question.

Not sure?.. I don?t think parents know what a program is and the beds might be empty if they wrote that on their shingle, I don?t think it says enough.  If you say Therapeutic boarding school and describe the structure and meet the staff and psychologists, talk to other parents and it comes recommended by your child?s therapist (who should be advocating only for the child).... it seems like a safer step to take.

Sorry.   "Therapeutic" doesn't solve the problem in most states.  Shampoo can be "therapeutic".  If parents are going to send their kids to a program, they should know damn well that it is a program.  If they claim to be both a program and a school, they can advertise as both to different target audiences.  If you say to a businessman "you're technically allowed to"...  they will.  Have you ever seen a loophole that hasn't been exploited?

Oh please.  Talk to a shrink?  My own shrink recommended Alldredge academy to a family.  He looked at the shiny brochure with the stock photos and said "looks great!"...  Shrinks are human too, and can make the same stupid assumptions parents do.  Unfortunately...  the law tends to favor the business (the prevailing philosophy being "buyer beware").  Becuase of the above mentioned technicalities...  "emotional growth" boarding schools are legally covered (at least criminally...).  They can say "oh no.. we don't provide 'therapy' and we don't claim to.. we provide "emotional growth"...".

Why don't they advertise as "programs".. SIMPLE!  Because that would require they submit to state regulation which would make the less "savory" aspects of program unfeasible (the same aspects that make such schools so profitable).

For example: Monitored communication would have to go.  Counselors would have to be properly trained and licensed.  Any "group therapy" would have to be run by actual "therapists" (the ones with PHDs... not GEDs)...  LGAT techniques would go out the window.

Why don't they do this?  well take the therapists for example... These facilities often cost more per year than ivy league schools  such as Harvard etc...  By a wide margin.  Is it cheaper to hire High school graduates, or PHDs?  Colleges can afford qualified staff and are cheaper.. Why can't programs?  Don't give me that "too expensive" crap i hear all the time.  These businesses do what they are required to do by law and no more.  Nothing short of (and probably not even) regulation is going to fix that.

[RobertBruce]

Why don't they advertise as "programs".. SIMPLE! Because that would require they submit to state regulation which would make the less "savory" aspects of program unfeasible (the same aspects that make such schools so profitable).

Exactly! The only thing that ever matters at these places is the bottom line.

[Charly]

Colleges/universities have huge endowments.

[psy]

Why don't they advertise as "programs".. SIMPLE! Because that would require they submit to state regulation which would make the less "savory" aspects of program unfeasible (the same aspects that make such schools so profitable).

Exactly! The only thing that ever matters at these places is the bottom line.

I am a very cynical person.  I spent my early teenage years in Romania...  Money corrupts.  Period.  I've seen ambulances leave people to die becuase they couldn't pay (and the care is supposed to be free...  that's a joke).  Street kids?  200,000 (no that is not a typo) of them living in the sewers and drainage canals.  They often freeze to death in the winter.  How did they get there?  Parents abandoned them...  Parents are too cheap/too lazy/too drunk to care.  At the same time you see Mercedes benzes all over the place.  How do people treat the streat kids?  By and large like shit.. worse than shit.  The police beat the kids for fun... in public...  and people cheer.  Why?  Because those little fuckers are a nuisance when you're at a stop-light and they "clean" your windshield.

I've seen incidences of corruption and depravity you wouldn't believe.  Who: Don't be so arrogant as to think that the US is above this.  People are the same the world over.  We just don't do such things as openly...  If you don't regulate... and enforce the regulations...  things will turn to shit as people will exploit the system.  This goes back to the loophole...  Ever seen one that hasn't been exploited?  Of course not.. becuase as soon as one is pointed out, somebody will take advantage of it.  Who succeeds in an amoral world where the bottom line defines success?  The ruthless.

whoops... time to go to French class.

[RobertBruce]

Cindy feels that regulation leads to far to much paperwork and thus should be avoided like the plauge.

[Anonymous]

Colleges/universities have huge endowments.

So do i.

[TheWho]

Regulation needs to be forced in order to work and it needs teeth.  If a kid has the option of getting a drivers license or not he probably wouldn?t get one if there were no consequences.  You could sit the kid down and say ?If you take the test you will have a certificate that shows you are a good driver?.  He may respond ?I know I am a good drive what good is a license to me?.  

Companies that avoid regulation don?t necessarily do so because they would have to disband using abusive tactics but because regulation is a pain in the ass and they don?t feel it adds value, they would have to give up control of their own process which they intimately believe works very well.  
From a business perspective if I was going to have to replace my ?GED?s?  with ?PhD?s?  I would ask for a year to comply and then find another business to get into because it may be too expensive,  TBS?s are very expensive as it is, maybe because they are pocketing a ton or maybe because of their small size.  I really don?t know their cost structures.

From a parents perspective, I would like to see regulation, fully accredited with all group sessions run by Phd?s and a phone in each childs room, but I saw what help was available, what the industry standard was and built further confidence that I was making the right decision because our local therapist thought it was a good match.

I don?t know what the answer is, but I know the schools wont sign up for regulation until the parents require it or the states do.  There are not enough parents in any one particular state that would care or even know enough to care so the state would have to step up and hold their feet to the fire.

[RobertBruce]

Not exactly his same song and dance as before:

Deborah, no one wants others to come in and audit their systems or try to tell them what to do. I don?t know of any families that call DSS to come visit them on a monthly basis to check things out or Corporations inviting OSHA in to visit. It?s a pain in the butt, they need to schedule people to escort them around, file paperwork, take them out to lunch and with DSS it is time you could be spending with your family, take time off work etc.. Most feel there is no value added. Everyone feels, probable yourself included, they are dong the best job possible and don?t value oversight.

 

Whatsmore you once again pull out your faulty drivers license analogy. Making drivers becomes licensed makes the roads safer, being a good driver by a persons own standards means nothing. Same thing applies to the private theraputic sector. They think they can regulate themselves but the numbers say otherwise.

[TheWho]

Why don't they advertise as "programs".. SIMPLE! Because that would require they submit to state regulation which would make the less "savory" aspects of program unfeasible (the same aspects that make such schools so profitable).

Exactly! The only thing that ever matters at these places is the bottom line.

I am a very cynical person.  I spent my early teenage years in Romania...  Money corrupts.  Period.  I've seen ambulances leave people to die becuase they couldn't pay (and the care is supposed to be free...  that's a joke).  Street kids?  200,000 (no that is not a typo) of them living in the sewers and drainage canals.  They often freeze to death in the winter.  How did they get there?  Parents abandoned them...  Parents are too cheap/too lazy/too drunk to care.  At the same time you see Mercedes benzes all over the place.  How do people treat the streat kids?  By and large like shit.. worse than shit.  The police beat the kids for fun... in public...  and people cheer.  Why?  Because those little fuckers are a nuisance when you're at a stop-light and they "clean" your windshield.

I've seen incidences of corruption and depravity you wouldn't believe.  Who: Don't be so arrogant as to think that the US is above this.  People are the same the world over.  We just don't do such things as openly...  If you don't regulate... and enforce the regulations...  things will turn to shit as people will exploit the system.  This goes back to the loophole...  Ever seen one that hasn't been exploited?  Of course not.. becuase as soon as one is pointed out, somebody will take advantage of it.  Who succeeds in an amoral world where the bottom line defines success?  The ruthless.

whoops... time to go to French class.

No way, psy, I am a little familiar with that area too, I have family from Chrisinau Maldova and a family friend who was born in Romania and still travels there to see his family. We helped Romania expose their treatment of kids in the state run baby houses, they allowed the cameras back in after a few years to show us what a great job they did and how they are educating and assisting the parents financially to keep these kids in a family environment only to find out they just moved the baby houses to a different part of the country and changed their names under the guises of adoption homes and the abuse is still continuing, they suck and they should all be shot. I know it won?t stop in my lifetime. What you say is exactly right about the kids there and that could happen openly here if we allowed it. But there will always be loop holes and we need to keep exposing them and plugging them and businesses will never ever volunteer to be regulated, whether it is your local dry cleaner with the solvents he uses or a TBS. The state/people need to enforce regulation where they feel it is necessary and impose harsh penalties.

I have experienced my share of corruption in that area of the world.  One of my experiences was when I boarded an old double prop Russian plane bound for Almaty. The plane had racks above the seats like you would see on a greyhound bus (you were probably on one of these), so every time we hit turbulence stuff would just fall down into the isle or on top of you. I placed my carry on bag which contained my laptop, some cash and sealed paperwork bound for the US Embassy in Almaty up front in a secure area so it wouldn?t fall. When we arrived I was told to leave my bag and wait at the gate. Even though it is a big city the airport was small and you just get off the plane and walk to an outdoor waiting area, so they didn?t want you to have to carry all your stuff. Anyway to make a long story short, My bag never showed and I watched everyone going by, I had no translator and I knew my bag was on the plane. So I walked back and we all stood there, I finally walked back on the plane and couldn?t find it. So after an hour of refusing to move away from the plane a police person showed up, he spoke a little English, I told him about the bag and paperwork bound for the US Embassy and he started screaming at the pilot walked on and came out with my bag and asked me to go thru it (it was in the pilots cabin or cockpit). When my translator showed up she told me it was typical all they wanted was a reward for finding it, if you had given them $50 you could have had it right away, they weren?t thieves and didn?t want to steal your bag or anything, just regular people. People over there have lived with corruption for so long it just becomes a part of life and is accepted on a daily bases.

[Deborah]

Companies that avoid regulation don?t necessarily do so because they would have to disband using abusive tactics but because regulation is a pain in the ass and they don?t feel it adds value, they would have to give up control of their own process which they intimately believe works very well.

Examples of what "they'd have to give up" that's so 'therapeutic' and works so well? Sorry, but if you're in the mental health field, regulation comes with the territory.

[Deborah]

But there will always be loop holes and we need to keep exposing them and plugging them and businesses will never ever volunteer to be regulated, whether it is your local dry cleaner with the solvents he uses or a TBS. The state/people need to enforce regulation where they feel it is necessary and impose harsh penalties.

Round and round we go. As has been stated umpteen times here.... A significant issue in this debate is that program lie about the services provided. They claim to be boarding schools rather than therapeutic facilities. HLA and ASR fit into this group. Haven't checked Carlbrook. Also in this group are programs such as Woodside Trails Wilderness. Shut down by the state, and like a good NATSAP member, reopened as a private boarding school,Eagle Pines Academy, exempt from regulation. Did the state bother to drop by and inquire about 'services provided'. Naw, yet they knew the same person owned it and was conducting business as usual.
The system will never fully protect kids. And parents sh0uld know this. One must do due diligence, and hopefully keep their kid home, relying on local services. Regulations will help, but will never be adequate insurance.

[TheWho]

Companies that avoid regulation don?t necessarily do so because they would have to disband using abusive tactics but because regulation is a pain in the ass and they don?t feel it adds value, they would have to give up control of their own process which they intimately believe works very well.

Examples of what "they'd have to give up" that's so 'therapeutic' and works so well? Sorry, but if you're in the mental health field, regulation comes with the territory.

Noting specific, just control.  If it was my business, I wouldn?t want to just hand over any control to anyone else if I didn?t have to.  It just makes it harder to run the business.  I think Bob, found one of my past thoughts:

?no one wants others to come in and audit their systems or try to tell them what to do. I don?t know of any families that call DSS to come visit them on a monthly basis to check things out or Corporations inviting OSHA in to visit. It?s a pain in the butt, they need to schedule people to escort them around, file paperwork, take them out to lunch and with DSS it is time you could be spending with your family, take time off work etc.. Most feel there is no value added. Everyone feels, probable yourself included, they are dong the best job possible and don?t value oversight.?  


Would you want someone coming in and asking you to shut down your lap top and have them go thru it for content for about an hour?  You have nothing to hide, but it would be a pain in the butt and added cost, you have these people walking around your house, wanting to use the bathroom etc.
If it was a law I am sure you would conform, but I don?t think you would be calling them up and asking to be monitored if it didn?t add value to your business.

[Deborah]

Companies that avoid regulation don?t necessarily do so because they would have to disband using abusive tactics but because regulation is a pain in the ass and they don?t feel it adds value, they would have to give up control of their own process which they intimately believe works very well.

Examples of what "they'd have to give up" that's so 'therapeutic' and works so well? Sorry, but if you're in the mental health field, regulation comes with the territory.

Noting specific, just control.  If it was my business, I wouldn?t want to just hand over any control to anyone else if I didn?t have to.  It just makes it harder to run the business.  
Would you want someone coming in and asking you to shut down your lap top and have them go thru it for content for about an hour?  You have nothing to hide, but it would be a pain in the butt and added cost, you have these people walking around your house, wanting to use the bathroom etc.
If it was a law I am sure you would conform, but I don?t think you would be calling them up and asking to be monitored if it didn?t add value to your business.

That's right, just breeze past the fraud and deception.
It IS law in every state that has regulations. If you warehouse kids 24/7 and particularly if you offer therapy, you must be licensed. And it's incumbent on the program to report as such.
Having the public know the truth, that you're operating fraudulently without a license, couldn't possibly "add value".
Most parents assume residential programs offering 'therapy' are properly licensed. Some are too desperate to care, other's are outraged when they discover the truth.