The Who

[RobertBruce]

Grasshoper is right Cindy, by not spewing your propoganda and simply listening to music while getting high youre probably saving childrens lives. Plus I wouldnt want you to get overly excited like you did last night. Remember what your doctor said.....

When youre ready though....

In this indicator, a school-associated violent death is a homicide, suicide, legal intervention (involving a law enforcement officer), or unintentional firearm-related death in which the fatal injury occurred on the campus

Thats the NCES parameters, not yours.

[TheWho]

The NCES parameters? You mean your parameters, the NCES doesnt deal with the private theraputic sector, and whatsmore you don't even know what parameters they do have for the public one. At least you arent willing to recongize them anyway, or did you forget that whole "legal intervention" comment I posted for you yesterday?

Head on over to the other thread Cindy, there are still some childrens deaths for you to dismiss.

Actually Who, don't.

Go listen to some Steve Miller or something instead. You'll be glad you did.

Yeah, thanks grasshopper, I think I'll take your advice and try to stay focused........I'm doing a little Dave Matthews right now.....

[RobertBruce]

I bet you do Dave Matthews like a pro Cindy.

[TheWho]

I have reviewed about 22 names and have a ways to go so I thought I would post an update,  if anyone can supply any names that meet the parameters below,PM me or add a post and I will add the names in.  If you feel any of the names I have added do not meet the criteria for some reason please let me know.

Here is how it looks to start:
Remember this applies only to TBS?s (not group homes and hospitals etc.)
Just to clarify: We are tracking homicides, suicides, legal interventions (involving a law enforcement officer) and also unintentional firearm-related deaths in which the fatal injury occurred on the campus

So I am simple comparing a child?s safety at a TBS (24 hours per day) vs not being at a TBS (24 hours per day)
We have this data:

July 1, 2000 thru June 2001  

Outside a TBS:
There where 2,059 Homicides and 1,890 suicides
Inside a TBS
There where 0 Homicides and 1 suicides.  (Data still being collected for TBS?s)


Ryan Lewis  suicide feb 13, 2001 Aldredge Academy (counted)

[Anonymous]

There is no way in hell that your interest in this and your presence here is purely as that of a parent of a graduate.  While you may or may not have actually had a daughter in ASR, there is something more to the story.

[RobertBruce]

and here are the real numbers for the private theraputic sector:



1 out of every 3,334 kids being killed by staff members.

and

1 out of every 20,000 kids committing suicide.

This is for the period between June 2000-July 2001

Cindy any chance we can see your source for this data? Also let's get a look how many deaths actually occured   in school?

If anyone else has other names to add to the list feel free, Cindy feels he can dictate what deaths will and will not be counted, however this is an open forum and he doesnt get his way just because he says so.

[Anonymous]

I thought you said this would be over soon.  He's playing with you Bob.  The more you guys run around trying to prove each other wrong, the more distracted and frustrated everyone is.  You lost anyone else following this a long time ago.

 :roll:  :roll:  :roll:  :roll:
 ::bangin::  ::bangin::  ::bangin::  ::bangin::  ::bangin::  ::bangin::  ::bangin::  ::bangin::  ::bangin::  ::bangin::  ::bangin::  ::bangin::  ::bangin::  ::bangin::  ::bangin::  ::bangin::  ::bangin::  ::bangin::  ::bangin::  ::bangin::  ::bangin::  ::bangin::  ::bangin::  ::bangin::  ::bangin::  ::bangin::  ::bangin::  ::bangin::  ::bangin::  ::bangin::  ::bangin::  ::bangin::  ::bangin::  ::bangin::  ::bangin::  ::bangin::  ::bangin::  ::bangin::  ::bangin::  ::bangin::  ::bangin::  ::bangin::  ::bangin::  ::bangin::  ::bangin::  ::bangin::  ::bangin::  ::bangin::  ::bangin::  ::bangin::  ::bangin::  ::bangin::  ::bangin::

[RobertBruce]

Nah, he's being played, like a fiddle. He honestly believes like the program owners do that he can alter facts and people will accept it. He's getting frustrated because no one is buying into his bullshit, this is obnoxious now I agree, and I tried to limit it to one thread but he'd rather spread his nonsense far and wide, in the end however he'll give up and move on to another topic at the very least, or if were luckly move on alltogether.

[TheWho]

I would like to reiterate that we are only at the data collection phase.  There cant be any right or wrong, it is what it is.  Parameters are defined and the data either meets the criteria or it doesn?t.

When embarking on discovery it is important to define the parameters you will be confined to so as to limit the arguments later on when the data is analyzed.  That is why I have been such a stickler in reiterating (Et Nauseum sometime, I know) the parameters we are constricted to.  We could pick many parameters, mental hospitals, group homes, boot camps etc. but from talking to other parents, the PM's and the emails I have received, I feel, there is value to narrow our scope to TBS?s, at least for now.  I know many of you have mentioned it and I fully realize that Wilderness may be a good second choice and we can tackle that later on and maybe parallel the data with the TBS?s to see how they compare.  One major resource that can be tapped into is the NCES.  They are well respected and have been collecting data for years and have set very clear boundary conditions on where their data comes from and have proven themselves repeatedly to be consistent year after year.  I have proposed and am embarking on a task to parallel their effort in the TBS sector.  I have completed the year ending in June 2000 and am presently working on filling the data points for the year ending June 2001.
My hope in all of this is to shed some light on the physical safety of our children as they enter and go through TBS ?s as a small subset of the therapeutic community as a whole and as compared to the public sector.  There are other studies which are underway which are lumping all non public programs together (i.e. mental hospitals, group homes, boot camps, wilderness programs)  in an effort to examine them against the same criteria (NCES) which should yield interesting in itself, but my focus is strictly TBS?s.

My progress may be slow, but I promise methodical.  If anyone has any information which may aid in the collection of this data I would appreciate the help and added accuracy.
I will update my findings as often as I can,

Thanks

[Nihilanthic]

We are not anywhere.

YOU are stalling and obfuscating.

This shit has been wrong from the start and the actual PROFESSIONALS in treatment and psychology have acknowledged this more than once, you simply choose to ignore it and let children languish in programs while you find new ways to cook the books and spin the numbers, or stall for more data.

Regardless, keeping a child in a program, as unsafe as they are, is fucking ridiculous, and I think we could make an arguement they're MORE likely to survive with zero treatment than programming.

Yes, thats right, I came out and said it - you're more likely to die in a program than not in one, no matter how 'dire' the likelyhood of deadinsaneorinjail.

[TheWho]

I thought your data regarded only private TBS programs?

Martin Lee Anderson, dead at age 14, Bay County Sheriff's boot camp, Florida

If that is the case you should remove this name from the list.

Yes the list is misleading, I will remove it.  I copied and pasted the entire list over to this thread so I could review it.  My intenion was not that they were part of the study....  thanks for pointing that out, TSW

[Anonymous]

If 1048 kids go to a TBS and 5 kill themselves that means that suicide is an escape method for kids.

If 126879 kids goes to a TBS and 10 kill themselves this means that TheWho likes to smear peanut butter on his balls and let his dog lick it off.

If 585669 are currently in public school, and 32 killed themselves in year 2003, that is equivilent to TheWho gently caressing his ass hole with a armor hot dog. Slowly applying ketchup and mustard while rolling the dog around the plate he brings it closer to himself and in a large exhale he pushes it all the way in until  fingers touch skin. He's careful not to let it slip away, so he tied a string to it.

If 43749327 hundred students are currently in high school, and 358 injure or harm themselves in accidents each year. That means that TheWho likes to pile up his childhood teddy bears and cover them with a sheet. He uses string to tie up his creation in the shape of a woman and uses a sharpie to draw a face, eyes and body parts on his teddy bear creation. He cuts a few holes in it and fills the holes with whip cream. He lays down in bed with his creation and turns off the lights.

TBS have over 68933 kids currently in them. 10475 kids end up being worse off and that's not good at all.

Based on my mathematics and statistics, TBS are not any better for kids than tying them down to a chair and using fishhooks to hold their eyes open and watch films of people committing suicide, being raped and dying of drug overdoses to scare them straight.

Its no more effective than that according to the numbers, and numbers don't lie.

 

[Anne Bonney]

If 1048 kids go to a TBS and 5 kill themselves that means that suicide is an escape method for kids.

If 126879 kids goes to a TBS and 10 kill themselves this means that TheWho likes to smear peanut butter on his balls and let his dog lick it off.

If 585669 are currently in public school, and 32 killed themselves in year 2003, that is equivilent to TheWho gently caressing his ass hole with a armor hot dog. Slowly applying ketchup and mustard while rolling the dog around the plate he brings it closer to himself and in a large exhale he pushes it all the way in until  fingers touch skin. He's careful not to let it slip away, so he tied a string to it.

If 43749327 hundred students are currently in high school, and 358 injure or harm themselves in accidents each year. That means that TheWho likes to pile up his childhood teddy bears and cover them with a sheet. He uses string to tie up his creation in the shape of a woman and uses a sharpie to draw a face, eyes and body parts on his teddy bear creation. He cuts a few holes in it and fills the holes with whip cream. He lays down in bed with his creation and turns off the lights.

TBS have over 68933 kids currently in them. 10475 kids end up being worse off and that's not good at all.

Based on my mathematics and statistics, TBS are not any better for kids than tying them down to a chair and using fishhooks to hold their eyes open and watch films of people committing suicide, being raped and dying of drug overdoses to scare them straight.

Its no more effective than that according to the numbers, and numbers don't lie.

 :nworthy:  :nworthy:  :nworthy:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  ::cheers::  :smokin:  ::bandit::  ::bwahaha::  ::bwahaha::  ::bwahaha::  ::bwahaha2::  ::bwahaha2::  ::rocker::  ::rocker::  ::rocker::  :nworthy:  :nworthy:  :nworthy:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:

[TheWho]

We are not anywhere.

YOU are stalling and obfuscating.

This shit has been wrong from the start and the actual PROFESSIONALS in treatment and psychology have acknowledged this more than once, you simply choose to ignore it and let children languish in programs while you find new ways to cook the books and spin the numbers, or stall for more data.

Regardless, keeping a child in a program, as unsafe as they are, is fucking ridiculous, and I think we could make an arguement they're MORE likely to survive with zero treatment than programming.

Yes, thats right, I came out and said it - you're more likely to die in a program than not in one, no matter how 'dire' the likelyhood of deadinsaneorinjail.

Niles first of all you tipped your hand (with the use of the word obfuscating) and exposed the fact that you listen to (and enjoy) the O'Riley factor every night....  with that known you cant possibly believe that turning a blind eye to empirical data is the answer.  I don?t think any of us really know until the data is collected.

[Nihilanthic]

Coercive programming that consists of "do as we say, dump your shit and make up more when there is nothing left to say, cry and suffer, or we will make you suffer worse" is wrong, intrinsically, period.

I hate Bil ORLY and do not watch his show.

Also, who cares about tipping what hand? Its called a #800 gorilla that everyone neglects to recognize.

I don't need data of death rates to see that its stupid to do that to children.