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Offline TheWho

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« Reply #780 on: January 13, 2007, 04:11:57 PM »
Quote from: ""ZenAgent""
Once again, who, at a TBS the kids are ALWAYS BEING SUPERVISED.  TBS and high schools are apples and oranges.


Yes, I understand so if the therapy/teatment didnt work for them or the intense supervison prevented them from taking their life , they would do it the day after the were released and we would start to see a rise in a different data set if this is happening.
Good point....
This data could be collected by ISAC and maybe already is.  There is a list that has been started by a fornits poster also.
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Offline TheWho

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« Reply #781 on: January 13, 2007, 04:14:35 PM »
Quote from: ""ZenAgent""
Quote from: ""TheWho""

Yes, I agree, in theory but not all kids can be reached.  If you took a population of "At Risk" for say suicide and then a random cut from the public sector.  We would expect the "At risk " group to have a higher rate.  You take this "At Risk" group and treat them and supervise them you would see a decrease but I believe you would still see kids who could not be helped.
So yes it would show to be safer statistically.

These "unreachable" kids are acceptable losses, then?  The facility was paid to keep them safe.  They need to be held liable for these "unreachable" kids.  By the way, no kid is unreachable, they're just getting the wrong treatment.


Well instead of "Unreachable" lets say "kids that could not be reached" or "were not reached".  Unreachable assumes no one could help them and maybe a different intervention may have been more successful for them.  So yes lets rephrase that.
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Offline TheWho

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« Reply #782 on: January 13, 2007, 04:23:20 PM »
Quote from: ""Deborah""
Quote from: ""TheWho""
So from a TBS vs National average the TBS?s had much lower rates of Suicides and Homicides for the same time period ?at school? and about the same ?away from school.?

I'm not going back there with you so you can twist and turn the information to your liking. What's relevant to this discussion is that there were 15 kids who died in programs during that time frame. Kids whose parents were assured that while they (the parents) couldn't keep them safe 24/7, the program could. That's, after-all, how they justify their outrageous fees.



Thats okay, Deborah.  The direct comparison data we have is violent deaths and suicides.  Outside of these data sets there is no comparative data for the public sector.  They did not present data for other types of deaths in this time frame.  Hopefully future snapshots will be more detailed so we can track this better.  and also ISACs data.  It is great news that someone is taking the initiative to collect this data on the TBS's end.
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Offline Deborah

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« Reply #783 on: January 13, 2007, 04:24:06 PM »
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Yes, I agree, in theory but not all kids can be reached.  If you took a population of "At Risk" for say suicide and then a random cut from the public sector.  We would expect the "At risk " group to have a higher rate.  You take this "At Risk" group and treat them and supervise them you would see a decrease but I believe you would still see kids who could not be helped. So yes it would show to be safer statistically.


That's right, not all kids can be "reached" at TBSs cause One-Size-Doesn't-Fit-All. The methods are not evidence-based and in fact, the kids are more likely to pick up more 'risky' behavior from their peers.
Since when does denying condiments 'treat' any 'disorder'? That's about how ridiculous this whole scam is.
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Hidden Lake Academy, after operating 12 years unlicensed will now be monitored by the state. Access information on the Federal Class Action lawsuit against HLA here: http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=17700

Offline TheWho

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« Reply #784 on: January 13, 2007, 04:31:46 PM »
Quote
That's right, not all kids can be "reached" at TBSs cause One-Size-Doesn't-Fit-All.


That is exactly why the parents need to do their homework first and see if the particular school is a good fit...get professional opinions look at more than one, talk to other parents.  There isn?t a 100% guarantee, at any price.  This goes for therapy, hospitals, strategic planning with "in-home" remedies etc. but one should try to find the best chance of your child being reached and helped.  Doing nothing should not be an option ,ever.
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Offline AtomicAnt

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« Reply #785 on: January 13, 2007, 04:36:25 PM »
Quick, Everyone pull your children out of school! The Who has informed us that schools are not safe. We should not send any of our kids to school. If we do, they will be killed, or raped, or use drugs!

Oh, and if you think your teen is 'at risk' (whatever that means), do not hesitate to call the escorts. They at so much risk living at home and playing in public playgrounds that you have no choice but to incarcerate them to protect them. The Who said so.

Quite clearly, The Who is out of touch with reality.
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Offline TheWho

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« Reply #786 on: January 13, 2007, 04:41:21 PM »
Quote from: ""AtomicAnt""
Quick, Everyone pull your children out of school! The Who has informed us that schools are not safe. We should not send any of our kids to school. If we do, they will be killed, or raped, or use drugs!

Oh, and if you think your teen is 'at risk' (whatever that means), do not hesitate to call the escorts. They at so much risk living at home and playing in public playgrounds that you have no choice but to incarcerate them to protect them. The Who said so.

Quite clearly, The Who is out of touch with reality.


Nah?.  I think someone mentioned that statistically the public schools have gotten safer over the past few years.  I haven?t seen the data but it is encouraging.
The numbers do seem daunting, though, don?t they?  I was surprised too
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Offline AtomicAnt

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« Reply #787 on: January 13, 2007, 04:41:49 PM »
Doing nothing worked just fine for me, and plenty of other risk taking teens who now in their 40s like me.
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Offline ZenAgent

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« Reply #788 on: January 13, 2007, 04:47:10 PM »
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote
That's right, not all kids can be "reached" at TBSs cause One-Size-Doesn't-Fit-All.

That is exactly why the parents need to do their homework first and see if the particular school is a good fit...get professional opinions look at more than one, talk to other parents.  There isn?t a 100% guarantee, at any price.  This goes for therapy, hospitals, strategic planning with "in-home" remedies etc. but one should try to find the best chance of your child being reached and helped.  Doing nothing should not be an option ,ever.


From personal experience:  programs lie.  They will make a "fit".  I don't know who you go to for professional opinions, but sailing the seas of ed cons is a risky business.  Other parents...I question that, too.  What worked for them may end up causing my kid to commit suicide.  Too "one-size-fits-all" again.
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\"Allah does not love the public utterance of hurtful speech, unless it be by one to whom injustice has been done; and Allah is Hearing, Knowing\" - The Qur\'an

_______________________________________________
A PV counselor\'s description of his job:

\"I\'m there to handle kids that are psychotic, suicidal, homicidal, or have commited felonies. Oh yeah, I am also there to take them down when they are rowdy so the nurse can give them the booty juice.\"

Offline RobertBruce

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« Reply #789 on: January 13, 2007, 05:06:15 PM »
Who you were told not to speak until you read what that website had to say. Have you read it yet?

Also I'd like to see a link to where you got your numbers on deaths and homicides for public schools. Until you do your stats are meaningless and false.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #790 on: January 13, 2007, 06:13:50 PM »
The Who, please tell us honestly that your daughter has absolutely NOTHING WHAT-SO-EVER to do with you.
Then, we can rest easy.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #791 on: January 13, 2007, 06:32:23 PM »
Quote
What's relevant to this discussion is that there were 15 kids who died in programs during that time frame.


Which effectively means that they were killed by staff.
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Offline Oz girl

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« Reply #792 on: January 13, 2007, 06:49:52 PM »
Quote from: ""AtomicAnt""
Doing nothing worked just fine for me, and plenty of other risk taking teens who now in their 40s like me.


Doing nothing also worked for a relative of mine. This kid took a fair few drugs, rejected the family faith and got kicked out of private school. TBS was not an option and at 28 this guy is not dead insane or in jail. He never went through a phase of not talking to his loved ones for years. He never went on to university but if this is the issue for parents then they need to ask themselves whose dreams they are pursuing!
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n case you\'re worried about what\'s going to become of the younger generation, it\'s going to grow up and start worrying about the younger generation.-Roger Allen

Offline TheWho

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« Reply #793 on: January 13, 2007, 08:18:45 PM »
Quote from: ""Oz girl""
Quote from: ""AtomicAnt""
Doing nothing worked just fine for me, and plenty of other risk taking teens who now in their 40s like me.

Doing nothing also worked for a relative of mine. This kid took a fair few drugs, rejected the family faith and got kicked out of private school. TBS was not an option and at 28 this guy is not dead insane or in jail. He never went through a phase of not talking to his loved ones for years. He never went on to university but if this is the issue for parents then they need to ask themselves whose dreams they are pursuing!


Thanks, I can appreciate that.  Almost all my friends growing up are not dead or in jail (I had one friend who hung himself in high school).  I dont know of anyone of them who went away to a TBS.  Family upbringing was enough for them as it is for 99% of all kids.  Its those very few that need a little bit extra help that they cant get at home or by local services.  Not every kid that is in trouble or "At Risk"  needs to go to a TBS.  I don?t think anyone is advocating that.  A TBS is a last resort, when all other efforts have failed.....I know many believe that all these kids are there because they smoked pot once, take it from me, its a bunch of crap.  Many of these kids are there because they need help.  I am sure some parents over react and make a poor choice, but this is an anomaly.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #794 on: January 13, 2007, 10:17:11 PM »
Based on what?
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