The Who

[Anonymous]

but since it's inception one thing has never changed, it's growing -- and now it seems faster than ever.

Prove it.

I'm getting really sick of this one. Says who? The programmies? I don't see growth and expansion. I see fragmentation and dissipation. Let's have a rundown of the big players here:

HLA - dying horribly
CEDU - crushed
Elan - according to general consensus, no longer pulls the shit it used to
Hyde - still alive
WWASPS - cannot survive; too many enemies. Destruction is simply inevitable.
PV - not going to last; again, too much hate directed at it
Aspen - the last big one to kill off

I see a whole lot of fancy websites, a whole lot of claims, a whole lot of trying to lump in things that are clearly not TBSes into "the industry", and very little evidence for any sort of real expansion.

This is what we've learned from HLA- when a program is dying, it makes every effort possible not to let anyone know about it. The shutdowns are always "unexpected", except to the people watching them closely. Why? Because the people who run these places are wedded to the abuse. They have to keep up the mask. They have to maintain the illusion. If anything slips, it all slips, and their empires crumble to dust. They cannot ever, no matter what, admit this. They'll let everything else go to ruin before they abandon what they've wrought, for once the veil goes down, they have to realize what it is they've truly done.

Programs, unfortunately, make more programmies- both from a few heavily brainwashed victims, and a few programmed parents who love the idea and want to subject more kids to it. On the other hand, the Internet is utterly ruthless at exposing these people, and more and more of the general population gets clued in. Remember, you can't un-clue someone in to this shit; once a person is inoculated against it, it doesn't matter what happens after that. (See Exhausted; no matter what her kids end up doing, she's not going to ship them off to some hellhole.)

So what we get is an increasing number of fanatics, but a dwindling population of people willing to pay for it.

Long-term the situation is simply untenable. It's rather like an MLM scam. In the early days of MLM, they found a lot of people willing to buy into it, because nobody knew what it was. Now? Good luck finding anyone, because almost every adult knows what a pyramid scheme is. Same with Scientology; good luck getting any new recruits, because we all know what it is. The same thing is inevitable here; the Internet just speeds it all up.

There are a few parents out there who really do want to pay for their children to be abused, but there's not all that many of them and there's way too many programmies out there looking for fresh meat. The industry will shrink.

Also, the cops are getting clued into this (see the Randall Hinton arrest), which will further speed its downfall, and I'm also getting really, really sick of people seeing the police as the enemy. Bullshit they are. They're what is ultimately needed to put this shit to rest.

[TheWho]

 Think of what goes on in the public sector, rape, suicide, drug overdose, bullying, graduate without being able to read, gang violence., Columbine violence.  TBS's dont experience any of this crap.

Smoking out on angel dust again, eh, TheWho?  There are rapes, illiterate graduates, bullying, and gang violence (not Crips and Bloods, but essentially "gangs") at every program ever mentioned on Fornits.  In most programs, it's  considered part of the therapy.

You are obviously a brain-damaged, ignorant buffoon, The Who.  For you to make statements like the one above, you obviously know nothing of what you are talking abgout.  Kinda like the Pope and sex.  You like to talk about it and tell others what it's about, but you have no personal experience of it at all.

Name a gang at ASR?

[Troll Control]

 Think of what goes on in the public sector, rape, suicide, drug overdose, bullying, graduate without being able to read, gang violence., Columbine violence.  TBS's dont experience any of this crap.

Smoking out on angel dust again, eh, TheWho?  There are rapes, illiterate graduates, bullying, and gang violence (not Crips and Bloods, but essentially "gangs") at every program ever mentioned on Fornits.  In most programs, it's  considered part of the therapy.

You are obviously a brain-damaged, ignorant buffoon, The Who.  For you to make statements like the one above, you obviously know nothing of what you are talking abgout.  Kinda like the Pope and sex.  You like to talk about it and tell others what it's about, but you have no personal experience of it at all.

Name a gang at ASR?

The Staff.

[TheWho]

people would opt for the staff over drug dealers and thugs, rapests for their kids to be exposed to, if they had a choice.  Most dont have a choice

[TheWho]

Again you can generalize and lump all programs/ boot camps together going back to the 1970?s.  But today these things don?t happen everywhere and more specifically in the better TBS?s.  The kids take the same medication they were taken when they entered unless the parents want them to see a therapist and the therapist recommends medication.  In that case she/ he will consult your local pediatrician and consult.

This is why I believe fornits misleads parents and hides the truth.  There are TBS?s which are very effective and safe for your children and they know it but they have an agenda.  We see it on TV every single day about the rapes and drug overdoses, suicides and gang violence in our schools.

What do we hear about TBS?  Talk to some of the parents whose kids have gone thru them.  They are very effective for some and some kids cannot get reached.  People here may tell you it is all brain washing and hush hush behind closed doors.  But ASR, to chose one, opened their doors to news people to film a persons time thru ASR.  They opened their doors to award winning novelists to write a story on the accounts there.  If everything was so secret why would they risk it?  If rapes were happening you would hear about it.  Sure the kids may sneak some pot back into school and not get caught for awhile or have a relationship with another student briefly, but it is a boarding school for teens and stuff might happen.  But it is 100 times safer than where most kids are at today.

It is safe folks, you wont hear it here by many, but ask to talk to parents who had kids go thru it.

[RobertBruce]

I'm sorry who were you going to back up any of the afore mentioned statements? No? Ok well then allow me to educate you, TBS's have a higher percentage of rapes, drug abuse, and gang related violence than public schools. Case closed.

You babbel on and on about how if these things still went on there would be proof, yet when you're shown the proof you immediatly discount it. Youre far to brainwashed to see anything beyond your own programming. Again this is why your daughter hates you. She's probably tried to tell you the same things we are, you're just not listening.

[TheWho]

Given your precious ASR is precariously clinging to the side of the toilet like yesterday's lunch I am more than interested to hear what the names of these programs are.

They would be the ones that didn?t make your list of abusive programs with rapists, gangs, drug pushers?

[Deborah]

There are TBS?s which are very effective and safe for your children and they know it but they have an agenda.

Like HLA? Another 'better', Cream 'o the Crop program you were defending last year?

TheWho would have you believe that programs are 100 times safer, when nothing could be further from the truth. When a program or parent makes such outlandish claims, ask them to cite their sources. There are a few white papers out that attempt to spin success. What a parent should know is that there have been no third-party independent research studies conducted on the industry. Every study they can provide you has been conducted by industry people.

I would advise any parent to talk to parents who've had kids in programs, but don't limit it to the ones the program refers you to. Read the HLA forum for information from ex teens (some adults now), parents, and staff.

You will find examples of rape, inappropriate sexual contact between staff/student and student/student, attempted suicides, hazing incidents (violence), staff mistreatment (violence).
You will read that HLA accepts adjudicated youth, some who left campus to serve their sentence and returned. They accepted seriously distressed kids that put the others at risk. Offer an incentive plan to counselor to decrease attrition. Conduct strip searches. How kids have access to drugs, tobacco, alcohol. Unqualified staff and teachers. Manual labor performed by the kids that enhances the property value. Withhold records and pre-paid tuition. Misappropriated donations. Unlicensed and regulated by the state. Most of this, contrary to their marketing. There is a link on the HLA forum to the Federal Lawsuit that is in progress.

That's a sampling, from one of the Premier programs in the industry. People thought they were different too, until the program fell under scrutiny and the truth began to emerge. Would ASR stand up to the same scrutiny? Perhaps time will tell. But, ASR has a very similar history to HLA. The same CEDU person started both programs. Both use experimental CEDU techniques. Both have aggressively fought the state to remain unlicensed. Why? If they are operating above board, what do they have to be concerned about?

TheWho would have you believe that TBSs are 'effective' when his own daughter returned to drug use and smoking after 16 months in a TBS (as 98% do), moved away and didn't speak to him for 2 years, and didn't go on to college.
If that is success, what does failure look like?
They had 16 months to 'fix' Who's kid. What did they do during that time?
She is not an exception.
They should be embarrassed to take $6000 a month from parents and do little but keep their kid in a holding tank. But, as Who states, it is a market driven by demand. Parents are duped about the services they are paying for and have no skill in evaluating the services provided. So the industry continues to profit. Don't limit your research to Fornits, read StrugglingTeens, where you'll find many, many such 'success' stories. Some who tried multiple TBSs and wilderness programs. Look around MySpace. Thanks to the internet, the information is easily accessible now, and one reason programs won't be able to operate as fradulently as they have in the past.

If you talk to any experienced professional they will tell you that the length of time a teen 'gets off course' is typically about 18 months.
Save your money and grief. Stick it out with your kid. $6000 a month will buy a lot of local services, and the family can actually be involved in the process, as they should be. You can't re-build relationships and resolve issues in 15 minute phone calls once a week and quarterly visits, or even on video conference calls. It's the antithesis of therapy. They know this and will strongly encourage you to make a post-program placement so your child doesn't return home and dash the illusion that the program 'worked'. When kids appear to be successful, it is inspite of the program, not because of it. All programs are spin-offs of CEDU, which was a spin-off of Synanon. The methods and techniques are experimental and not evidence-based. CEDU went bankrupt due to excessive lawsuits. With any luck, there will be a domino effect, and one-by-one the remaining spin-offs will fall.

YOU are quiet likely the only person in the world who has a genunie vested interest in your child. Authentic therapy would not require that you sever contact with your child- you are there only source for reporting abuse and discrepancies in policy. Authentic therapy includes the family on a regular basis and doesn't isolate the child or treat him/her in a bubble. Authentic therapy would not expose a child to injury or the risk of death. Do your research.

[TheWho]

What a parent should know is that there have been no third-party independent research studies conducted on the industry.

Agreed no third party negative reports.  But I still Isuggest parents call the schools themselves; ask to speak with parents that have been through it.  There are good schools out there and some will be a good match others may not.  Like Deborah mentioned there haven?t been many studies done, but the feed back that I have seen, and experienced personally, is very positive.  Some of the methods used in TBS?s are starting to be incorporated into the public school systems.

[ZenAgent]

people would opt for the staff over drug dealers and thugs, rapests for their kids to be exposed to, if they had a choice.  Most dont have a choice

That's a joke, right?  I notice you left "killers" off your list.  Odd, because some staff do kill.

[Deborah]

Agreed no third party negative reports.  But I still suggest parents call the schools themselves; ask to speak with parents that have been through it.  There are good schools out there and some will be a good match others may not.  Like Deborah mentioned there haven?t been many studies done, but the feed back that I have seen, and experienced personally, is very positive.  Some of the methods used in TBS?s are starting to be incorporated into the public school systems.

This is a typical example of what you can expect to hear from the industry and the perfect time to ask them to cite their sources.

There are numerous credible studies that discourage the aggragation of kids with 'problems'. It has never been proven to be an effective method of 'treatment'.

An internal survey conducted by the industry even suggested that TBSs are most successful at lessening sexual activity, runaways, and suicide-not surprising because this is common for any lock-down facility- but parents didn't feel they got their money's worth.

Last year, Who claimed HLA was a good school. Of course, he hadn't done any research. And continues to speak from hope, not fact. Please, don't rely solely on happy parent testimonies. Everyone's standards are different and some parents are simply incapable of evaluating what the program has actually accomplished with their child, how they did it, and if the means justify the end. Much too big a gamble to take with your child.

[ZenAgent]

What a parent should know is that there have been no third-party independent research studies conducted on the industry.

Agreed no third party negative reports.  But I still Isuggest parents call the schools themselves; ask to speak with parents that have been through it.  There are good schools out there and some will be a good match others may not.  Like Deborah mentioned there haven?t been many studies done, but the feed back that I have seen, and experienced personally, is very positive.  Some of the methods used in TBS?s are starting to be incorporated into the public school systems.

No, it was no third party independent reports.  There's the Surgeon General's findings on the industry.  As far as TBS methods being incorporated into schools, that's fucked up.

Community based treatment, Who, ya got any wisdom to dispense on the subject, or does the idea of keeping the kid at home disturb you?  I get the feeling community based isn't always considered as an option because parents want the kid gone and that's all.

[TheWho]

I dont believe I said HLA was a good school or a bad school. I had a daughter who attended ASR and SUWS.

[Anonymous]

And I'm askin why it matters to you, someone who doesn't have a horse in this race. Stop reading the thread. Good god, there are hundreds/thousands more for your reading pleasure.
I asked questions, didn't 'insinuate' anything. If you're needing attention, we can join you on another thread if you like.

 :rofl:

You MUST be high.. just saying.

Oh lighten up.  I thought the last line was amusing.  But yes, I am.

I knew it! :rofl: I'll lighten up as son as I can- I'm expecting an important call so I shall hold off for now. Now log back in, sexy pirate lady.

Not me sweetcakes. Someone else playin with ya.  :lol:

Yes, yes...we know.  :lol:

[Troll Control]

I dont believe I said HLA was a good school or a bad school. I had a daughter who attended ASR and SUWS.

Oh, yes you did, Who.  Lying again.  No surprise.

You said all the same things about HLA.  Kids "growing," "getting an education," "getting on track," etc.  You even went as far as to say that the laws regarding licensed teachers, having a nurse on staff, licensed counselors didn't really matter.

And you made your stupid analogies about the unlicensed teachers and counselors by saying "does having a driver's license make someone a better driver?  No, it doesn't.  I'm sure these people are doing a good job or they wouldn't be there..."  Same shit you were saying about ASR's unlicensed teachers and counselors.  

You're full of crap, Who.