The Who

[TheWho]

To answer your question:  Yes it is!

But one of my beefs was that they release kids back into their old environment without a support system.  When my daughter came home she went right back to her friends and it was obvious that ASR needed a transition program which they do have in place now.  My daughter went back and tried everything that she missed but she realized it wasn?t a lifestyle she wanted.

What's plainly obvious is that your daughter grew up.  Mine did too.  Do you remember any of what I told you about my oldest daughter?  I guarantee she caused me as much or more fear as yours.  Difference is, I believed in her and in her ability to grow from her own mistakes.  It took a while and there were more than a few sleepless nights, knock down drag outs, LE, physical fights with her sister (who is/was much smaller) and trashing her room because she was pissed she couldn't find some more "X".   The lessons we learn from our own mistakes are the ones that are meaningful.  The ones forced upon us are not.

Ah Anne dont judge others that quickly, I wish it was that easy.  I went through the same thing you did and then some take what you experienced with your kids kick it an order of magnitude higher and then add exposure to younger sibs.
We didnt ship her off, we worked side by side all the way, loved her supported her and in the long run our decisions paid off just like yours.  I dont judge you for your decisions.  Hopefully you dont judge others because they didn?t take the same route as you.  Each situation is different remember that

[Anne Bonney]

Ah Anne dont judge others that quickly, I wish it was that easy.  I went through the same thing you did and then some take what you experienced with your kids kick it an order of magnitude higher and then add exposure to younger sibs.

Did you not see where I said she had a younger, much smaller sister?  What makes you think yours was any worse off than mine?  I posted a couple of sentences about her, not her entire life story.

We didnt ship her off, we worked side by side all the way, loved her supported her and in the long run our decisions paid off just like yours.  I dont judge you for you decisions.  Hopefully you dont judge others because they didn?t take the same route as you.  Each situation is different remember that

Usually I don't judge others but in this case I'm making an exception.  I know very well the kind of therapy and treatment your daughter received.  I know much more about ASR than you think I do and I've got the advantage that you don't have of being both a teen in a program and a parent of a so-called "out of control" teen (that's not the term that I would use, but she was classified as such when she ended up at juvie for an assessment).  I've read what you've posted.  You have no problem with this form of therapy.  You read Goodtobefree's posts, said they were fairly accurate and believe that was appropriate for your daughter.  So I am judging you and you are wrong.  Dead wrong and you may not realize the consequences of your actions for years if ever.

[psy]

You guys have been busy,  I will try to answer a couple:

ASR is what the graduates and parents say it is and as long as people are spending money it must have value.

I am not sure why this stands out.  If the graduates feel it adds value then it is worth something.  Lets pick any corporation say Microsoft.  If the reporters and news people say the company sucks and their products are bad it may raise an eyebrow or two but the bottom line is the consumers.   If people are using and getting value out of the product that is what counts.  Only the users really appreciate what they got out of it, people on the outside can only speculate.

Bad example.

People buy microsoft products because they hold a virtual monopoly over computer sales.  Micro$oft does not care about the quality of their products becuase they know they have no competition.  does the Troubled Teen industry have any competition?  Any oversight?  Microsoft?  Of course not.  It's private industry.

So when microsoft sells their product to the government and it gets used to manage a nuclear aircraft carrier (ironically, the Bush), and it's constantly in dry dock since the systems keeps crashing...  That's a typical example of what happens when there is no motivation for quality control.... and a lot of campaign contributions i might add.

People might be using their products, but is only because they (think they) have to.  The alternatives cannot afford the same level of marketing required to gain popular public support (being mostly free).  Marketing and business monopolies, not quality, not the customers, define what will be used.

Now you've done it... i've gone off on an M$ rant again...

[TheWho]

That analogy is like comparing and asshole to a cock. Different things come out of both you know!

Microsoft... Low quality pissy products that do nothing but annoy the consumer

ASR... Nothing but shit.

You may not agree with the analogy but the consumer does define and dictate the success of the product.

This is why people call you names ya fucking asswipe!  We're talking about kids, not a 'product'.

Anne --
After all these years you still don?t get it!!  The consumers control  and define the products.  The examples are endless:

People start walking to work, the price of oil goes down.

People switch to apple computers, Microsoft Tanks

 Everyone buys Pepsi, Coke goes out of Business.

People stop paying $6,000 a month for TBS?s the price will drop to $4,000 a month.  Nobody shows up with a kid, the price drops to $2,000 after that they cant pay their rent and they fold and go home.

 On the other end if too many people pay $6,000 and they start to run out of beds then the price goes to $8,000 a month and then $10,000 a month.

So you see it isn?t the institutions that are setting the price or calling the shots it is the consumers.  Everyone here is running around blaming the schools, but they are simply trying to meet demand!!

[TheWho]

You guys have been busy,  I will try to answer a couple:

ASR is what the graduates and parents say it is and as long as people are spending money it must have value.

I am not sure why this stands out.  If the graduates feel it adds value then it is worth something.  Lets pick any corporation say Microsoft.  If the reporters and news people say the company sucks and their products are bad it may raise an eyebrow or two but the bottom line is the consumers.   If people are using and getting value out of the product that is what counts.  Only the users really appreciate what they got out of it, people on the outside can only speculate.

Bad example.

People buy microsoft products because they hold a virtual monopoly over computer sales.  Micro$oft does not care about the quality of their products becuase they know they have no competition.  does the Troubled Teen industry have any competition?  Any oversight?  Microsoft?  Of course not.  It's private industry.

So when microsoft sells their product to the government and it gets used to manage a nuclear aircraft carrier (ironically, the Bush), and it's constantly in dry dock since the systems keeps crashing...  That's a typical example of what happens when there is no motivation for quality control.... and a lot of campaign contributions i might add.

People might be using their products, but is only because they (think they) have to.  The alternatives cannot afford the same level of marketing required to gain popular public support (being mostly free).  Marketing and business monopolies, not quality, not the customers, define what will be used.

Now you've done it... i've gone off on an M$ rant again...

Yeah, I see your point with microsoft.  I was a huge fan of QuattroPro? myself (I think it was called) years ago but we had to convert because Microsoft had the grip and we couldnt do both.  They forced the package on us.  But it wasnt a better product at the time, we needed to step down.  So there are exceptions....Thanks for pointing that out.

[TheWho]

Ah Anne dont judge others that quickly, I wish it was that easy.  I went through the same thing you did and then some take what you experienced with your kids kick it an order of magnitude higher and then add exposure to younger sibs.

Did you not see where I said she had a younger, much smaller sister?  What makes you think yours was any worse off than mine?  I posted a couple of sentences about her, not her entire life story.

We didnt ship her off, we worked side by side all the way, loved her supported her and in the long run our decisions paid off just like yours.  I dont judge you for you decisions.  Hopefully you dont judge others because they didn?t take the same route as you.  Each situation is different remember that

Usually I don't judge others but in this case I'm making an exception.  I know very well the kind of therapy and treatment your daughter received.  I know much more about ASR than you think I do and I've got the advantage that you don't have of being both a teen in a program and a parent of a so-called "out of control" teen (that's not the term that I would use, but she was classified as such when she ended up at juvie for an assessment).  I've read what you've posted.  You have no problem with this form of therapy.  You read Goodtobefree's posts, said they were fairly accurate and believe that was appropriate for your daughter.  So I am judging you and you are wrong.  Dead wrong and you may not realize the consequences of your actions for years if ever.

Yes , Goodtobefree was a very intense poster, who was difficult to communicate with  (you can read some of his responses if you like)  I agreed that his account of his time was similar to my daughters account to validate that  what he felt was okay and justified.   He told me enough to make me believe he had attended ASR.   He felt he was abused there!  But what should I have said?  No you are wrong my daughter had a different experience?  I think if a person feels they are abused they are abused!!  Who am I to say.  Some people grow from the experience and find it motivating others feel it was abusive.  How do we classify it?

[Anne Bonney]

Yes , Goodtobefree was a very intense poster, who was difficult to communicate with  (you can read some of his responses if you like)  I agreed that his account of his time was similar to my daughters account to validate that  what he felt was okay and justified.   He told me enough to make me believe he had attended ASR.   He felt he was abused there!  But what should I have said?  No you are wrong my daughter had a different experience?  I think if a person feels they are abused they are abused!!  Who am I to say.  Some people grow from the experience and find it motivating others feel it was abusive.  How do we classify it?

As the abusive thought reform and behavior modification that it is.

[TheWho]

I typically dont give advice at all but this is to new parents or new posters:
If you decide to get a user name, be careful of the Private Messages (PM) the private part of it doesnt apply.  Its just as open as the forums.
It really sucks that they allow that!!

[TheWho]

Yes , Goodtobefree was a very intense poster, who was difficult to communicate with  (you can read some of his responses if you like)  I agreed that his account of his time was similar to my daughters account to validate that  what he felt was okay and justified.   He told me enough to make me believe he had attended ASR.   He felt he was abused there!  But what should I have said?  No you are wrong my daughter had a different experience?  I think if a person feels they are abused they are abused!!  Who am I to say.  Some people grow from the experience and find it motivating others feel it was abusive.  How do we classify it?

As the abusive thought reform and behavior modification that it is.

Nah, its a good safe place to be, need to put it in perspective, its not straight in the 80's.  Think of what goes on in the public sector, rape, suicide, drug overdose, bullying, graduate without being able to read, gang violence., Columbine violence.  TBS's dont experience any of this crap.

[Anne Bonney]

I typically dont give advice at all but this is to new parents or new posters:
If you decide to get a user name, be careful of the Private Messages (PM) the private part of it doesnt apply.  Its just as open as the forums.
It really sucks that they allow that!!

Nobody "allows" anything.  People are responsible for their own behaviors.  TSW posted apologizing for putting up Karen's PM.

Quit trying to scare people.

[Anne Bonney]

Nah, its a good safe place to be, need to put it in perspective,

I'd say I've got more perspective on this than you do.  Have you been through one of these places?  No, you haven't.  I have and I've raised two kids.

 

its not straight in the 80's.

Pretty much.

Think of what goes on in the public sector, rape, suicide, drug overdose, bullying, graduate without being able to read, gang violence., Columbine violence. TBS's dont experience any of this crap.

 :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:



Again, what color is the sky in your world?

[RobertBruce]

I think if a person feels they are abused they are abused!! Who am I to say.

Well then why do you continue to downplay and discount peoples experience when they say they have been abused.

[Anonymous]

 Think of what goes on in the public sector, rape, suicide, drug overdose, bullying, graduate without being able to read, gang violence., Columbine violence.  TBS's dont experience any of this crap.

Smoking out on angel dust again, eh, TheWho?  There are rapes, illiterate graduates, bullying, and gang violence (not Crips and Bloods, but essentially "gangs") at every program ever mentioned on Fornits.  In most programs, it's  considered part of the therapy.

You are obviously a brain-damaged, ignorant buffoon, The Who.  For you to make statements like the one above, you obviously know nothing of what you are talking abgout.  Kinda like the Pope and sex.  You like to talk about it and tell others what it's about, but you have no personal experience of it at all.

[Anne Bonney]

We sit here and do this little back and forth with you and it serves it's purpose.  What you end up exposing about yourselves and the industry as a whole is worth it alone but it also answers all the questions that other parents who are reading have.  They just get the picture and move on, or contact one of us privately.  You continue this protestation, desperately trying to justify what you've done.  But there are bigger reasons why we are all here.....after all these years, still talking to jackasses like you and Karen.  Here's one....


http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=20152&start=60

Child abuse is wrong no matter where it occurs. But, due to the sheer religious fanaticism and political and economic sway of many of the principle drivers in this industry, this is a special case. These sadistic lunatics are making laws and other public policy. People take their advice and hand them great big sacks of what used to be our money to impliment their ideas because they believe they're the experts, they know what they're doing. Well now the first generation of Synanon kids are entering [eghgheghm] middle age. And there are a damned lot of us, it turns out. That wasn't the case when we were first tossed out in the early, rudamentary 'exit plan' days (no cash, no ticket, just change the locks, that's it). No one fucking believed us, even if they tried to understand. So we quit talking about it. Now, how do you network with people based on shared interest if nobody ever talks about that interest?

[egypt has pyramids]

The consumers control  and define the products.  The examples are endless:

People start walking to work, the price of oil goes down.

People switch to apple computers, Microsoft Tanks

Everyone buys Pepsi, Coke goes out of Business.

People stop paying $6,000 a month for TBS?s the price will drop to $4,000 a month.  Nobody shows up with a kid, the price drops to $2,000 after that they cant pay their rent and they fold and go home.

 On the other end if too many people pay $6,000 and they start to run out of beds then the price goes to $8,000 a month and then $10,000 a month.

So you see it isn?t the institutions that are setting the price or calling the shots it is the consumers.  Everyone here is running around blaming the schools, but they are simply trying to meet demand!!

For once I agree with you 100%.

A lot of people here think that the parents are being somehow duped, or swindled, by the tens of thousands, into sending their kids to programs. I think parents are getting exactly what they are paying for.

I don't think this is just about governmental policy, and the drug war. Most kids at these programs never even tried hard drugs. The teen help industry is, for all intensive purposes, an unregulated industry. What we are seeing is simply the proliferation of the wishes of middle and upper class parents in America. I think they are getting exactly what they pay for.

You can already see the teen industry market shaping the industry by trends in certain program variations and styles. It's an ebb and flow depending on the mood of the market, but since it's inception one thing has never changed, it's growing -- and now it seems faster than ever.  

The funny thing is, the program parents, they are all the same. You met one, you met them all. They hire the gardener to mow the lawn. Hire the pool man to clean the pool. Hire the dog trainer to fix the dog. And outsource discipline to a private company outside the house. It all paints a very bleak picture, but at least the colors match.