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Offline TheWho

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The Who
« Reply #240 on: January 10, 2007, 11:21:55 AM »
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
Again because you don't have any. It's fine really, everyone else understands that you just made it up so It's okay.


Oh, no!!  Thats a big number, should I ask for references and sources to back that up?  If you dont have them its okay, just say so...


Only kidding........
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Offline Nihilanthic

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The Who
« Reply #241 on: January 10, 2007, 11:25:01 AM »
@WHO

You still have to back up what you say, if you want to be taken in an open discussion where we have a clue what we are doing.

@Robert

Going down to their level does what exactly?
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DannyB on the internet:I CALLED A LAWYER TODAY TO SEE IF I COULD SUE YOUR ASSES FOR DOING THIS BUT THAT WAS NOT POSSIBLE.

CCMGirl on program restraints: "DON\'T TAZ ME BRO!!!!!"

TheWho on program survivors: "From where I sit I see all the anit-program[sic] people doing all the complaining and crying."

Offline RobertBruce

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The Who
« Reply #242 on: January 10, 2007, 11:26:40 AM »
Quote
Oh, no!! Thats a big number, should I ask for references and sources to back that up? If you dont have them its okay, just say so...


Only kidding........


I'd be willing to take a poll if you would either back up your statements or acknowledge that you can't.
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Offline RobertBruce

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The Who
« Reply #243 on: January 10, 2007, 11:28:51 AM »
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""
@WHO

You still have to back up what you say, if you want to be taken in an open discussion where we have a clue what we are doing.

@Robert

Going down to their level does what exactly?


Cindy can't back them up, and he can't acknowledge being wrong.

Nihil, using his own tactics against him gets him boggeled up and frustrated, it also keeps him from spewing off more of his nonsense to prospective parents pretending to know something about a field when it's clear he hasnt got a clue.
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Offline Nihilanthic

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The Who
« Reply #244 on: January 10, 2007, 11:30:29 AM »
The reason we even bother this shit is because of all the lurkers - many of them NEW and just coming from google (hello to you!) - and we need to show the programs for what they are and what the apologists have to resort to in order to try to argue their side, versus our using of specifics and facts.

Try to take the high road... lot sof people are watching us.
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DannyB on the internet:I CALLED A LAWYER TODAY TO SEE IF I COULD SUE YOUR ASSES FOR DOING THIS BUT THAT WAS NOT POSSIBLE.

CCMGirl on program restraints: "DON\'T TAZ ME BRO!!!!!"

TheWho on program survivors: "From where I sit I see all the anit-program[sic] people doing all the complaining and crying."

Offline TheWho

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The Who
« Reply #245 on: January 10, 2007, 11:32:00 AM »
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""
@WHO

You still have to back up what you say, if you want to be taken in an open discussion where we have a clue what we are doing.

@Robert

Going down to their level does what exactly?


I can agree to that, but lets apply the same standard to everyone.  Maybe elliminate the use of the generalized terms like "most people think....." or "Everyone believes......"  and move on using more specific data.
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Offline Nihilanthic

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The Who
« Reply #246 on: January 10, 2007, 11:33:03 AM »
's soon as you get some!

Remember, the burden of proof is on the programs.
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DannyB on the internet:I CALLED A LAWYER TODAY TO SEE IF I COULD SUE YOUR ASSES FOR DOING THIS BUT THAT WAS NOT POSSIBLE.

CCMGirl on program restraints: "DON\'T TAZ ME BRO!!!!!"

TheWho on program survivors: "From where I sit I see all the anit-program[sic] people doing all the complaining and crying."

Offline RobertBruce

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The Who
« Reply #247 on: January 10, 2007, 11:41:15 AM »
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""
@WHO

You still have to back up what you say, if you want to be taken in an open discussion where we have a clue what we are doing.

@Robert

Going down to their level does what exactly?

I can agree to that, but lets apply the same standard to everyone.  Maybe elliminate the use of the generalized terms like "most people think....." or "Everyone believes......"  and move on using more specific data.


Cindy I will absolutly agree to this and do my best to adhere to it, once I see you do the same. I often see you talk about other people needing to use "real data" or facts to support their claims, yet yourself seem to be above that?

Why is that?
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Offline TheWho

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« Reply #248 on: January 10, 2007, 11:45:27 AM »
Okay , I think I said:

Exactly!! So at least we agree the car needs work !! 6 months ago you wouldn?t agree the car needed fixing

My analogy would, yes, a majority of posters, here on Fornits use to suggest that doing nothing was the best course of action for kids who were in trouble.


RobertBruce indicated:
It's fine really, everyone else understands that you just made it up so It's okay.

And you Yourself, Niles,  said:

There are still children in the 5 to 6 figure range being tortured?..


So I think it seems to be generally accepted to communicate this way here on Fornits,  if we want to apply standards we should apply them to everyone.
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Offline RobertBruce

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« Reply #249 on: January 10, 2007, 11:50:46 AM »
Agreed. I'll take the first step.

Quote
It's fine really, everyone else understands that you just made it up so It's okay.


I should have written this as "It's fine really some of us understand that you just made it up so it's okay."

That having been done I'd like to see you either back up your statements or retract them.
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Offline Troll Control

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The Who
« Reply #250 on: January 10, 2007, 11:50:48 AM »
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""Jeopardy""
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Sorry you feel that way, Robert.  But I wont reveal my sources.
Sorry... i meant to quote this..

Who, please state your gender.

Long story,  I took the name on a year or so ago as a "log in" and am the father of a child who attended SUWS and ASR.  During a frustrating debate RobertBruce started refering to me as "Cindy".  I think it comes from the Grinch....Cindy Lou Who....It makes him feel better, I use to name call in high school and it brought on some satisfaction at the time, but everyone grows out of it eventually.


Let's be fair, children.  Who, you have name-called many, many times here.  You were just insulting RB personally in this very thread.

A little honesty here, Who.  You haven't "grown out of it."  You're a middle aged guy who acts and talks like a highschooler.  Anyone that performs a search on your username here can view the nasty, condescending commentaries you've posted, so don't sugarcoat.
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Offline TheWho

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« Reply #251 on: January 10, 2007, 11:59:00 AM »
Here is mine:


Exactly!! So at least we agree the car needs work !! 6 months ago you might not have agreed the car needed fixing

My analogy would, yes, I seem to recall many posters, here on Fornits that use to suggest that doing nothing was the best course of action for kids who were in trouble.

Okay Niles, your turn.
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Offline TheWho

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« Reply #252 on: January 10, 2007, 12:01:52 PM »
Quote from: ""Dysfunction Junction""
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""Jeopardy""
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Sorry you feel that way, Robert.  But I wont reveal my sources.
Sorry... i meant to quote this..

Who, please state your gender.

Long story,  I took the name on a year or so ago as a "log in" and am the father of a child who attended SUWS and ASR.  During a frustrating debate RobertBruce started refering to me as "Cindy".  I think it comes from the Grinch....Cindy Lou Who....It makes him feel better, I use to name call in high school and it brought on some satisfaction at the time, but everyone grows out of it eventually.



Let's be fair, children.  Who, you have name-called many, many times here.  You were just insulting RB personally in this very thread.

A little honesty here, Who.  You haven't "grown out of it."  You're a middle aged guy who acts and talks like a highschooler.  Anyone that performs a search on your username here can view the nasty, condescending commentaries you've posted, so don't sugarcoat.



Looks like you have me figured out, good for you DJ.  My posts are there for anyone to read....
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Offline RobertBruce

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The Who
« Reply #253 on: January 10, 2007, 12:07:41 PM »
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Here is mine:


Exactly!! So at least we agree the car needs work !! 6 months ago you might not have agreed the car needed fixing

My analogy would, yes, I seem to recall many posters, here on Fornits that use to suggest that doing nothing was the best course of action for kids who were in trouble.

Okay Niles, your turn.


Niles claim was probably fairly accurate, I'm impressed that you were able to even do that much though, suprised even. Here's the thing though, you're wrong on both counts. I never made a comment suggesting that I feel the best way to handle teen issues is to ignore them. Nor do the majority of posters on fornits feel that is the best way to handle the issues.

If you'd like to offer evidence to the contrary I'm more than willing to discuss it.
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Offline TheWho

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« Reply #254 on: January 10, 2007, 12:19:05 PM »
Quote from: ""Charly""
Who- What are your and your daughter's thoughts on the SUWS wilderness program?  My son felt wilderness was very beneficial (once he got over his anger at being there, which took about 5 weeks....) and that it wasn't at all like Carlbrook, his TBS.  He thought the therapy in wilderness was very individualized and that the staff was excellent.  He did two stints at Second Nature.  There has been some discussion on this forum about wilderness.  Several posters feel wilderness can be beneficial and not harmful or abusive.  Others lump it is with all the other programs which use LGAT techniquees. I would be interested in your experience.


Charly -- another thought....
I could see how some kids may have trouble with the program.  If the child was out of shape or was injured and unable to walk very well this would not be a good choice for them.  But for the majority of kids I feel it would be beneficial.  There was one kid in my daughters group that said he would like to do it again, but he was a real out doors type and enjoyed the challenge of lighting fires with flint etc., I would not call this typical.  It is great for kids who lack self confident because each kids accomplishes a great deal during their stay there.
I haven?t heard much about second nature but it sounds similar to SUWS.
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