The Who

[TheWho]

Another persons opinion:

It's hard to grade a show like this. The production is good and the storyline compelling enough to elicit an emotional reaction. Good filmmaking does that??

[Anonymous]

the video wasn't of Swift River, was it?

[Ganja]

Yes/no questions, Who..

[TheWho]

TheWho:

Do you believe the girl screaming was acting? Yes or no.

Do you believe the staff memeber who was quoted as saying
"I CAN MAKE IT HURT!"  as they girl was screaming on the floor, was acting? Yes or no.

Would you be offended if the girl in the video was your daughter? Yes or no.


These are simple questions.

Thank you, 420.


Go!!

You know its difficult to decipher what is real or not when you are watching a show.  There were "Real world" members who were interviewed on a radio talk show and stated that they hopped things up a level or 2 so they would get camera time.  Most of these guys would never scream at cops in the streets, but with a camera crew following you around you act out of character sometimes.
So yea it looked damn real to me and I felt for the kids, but where does reality and film making start and end?  It is television and one should be careful how you perceive it.
I think it is good that it raises the awareness of people and what kids can go thru at some of these places.  It must be good for business because it is still going.
No I wouldn?t want my daughter to go thru that.

I am sure this isn?t what you want to hear and you can slam it left and right,  but it is how I feel about TV shows , I am a little skeptical.

Like I mentioned earlier if the show focused on how well the kids did when they got out and the different colleges they eventually attended, just focused on the successful kids I don?t think the show would be as easily accepted here.
You may not say it but I don?t think we would be having this conversation if that were the case.

[RobertBruce]

Ganja those are a little too much for the poor guy. Take it easy on him. Use smaller words.

[Deborah]

Yeh, all staged for the audience. Not a documercial, not a marketing ploy...  That's why every Aspen site, NATSAP program sites, even WWASP sites, and most recently a religious program site, makes reference to the series.

Aspen fucked up by letting that be aired. You know that and you have no rational excuse, so you divert, and make light of a girl being subjected to cruel, inhuman, and degrading treatment. It's just damned unfortunate that human rights organizations didn't go on the attack.

Just like they fucked up by filming the kid being forced to eat burned oatmeal mush while standing over a pit in case he vomited. If you haven't seen them, then you also missed the 14 year old boy on solo, burrowed into his sleeping bag, shaking uncontrolably and crying for his mother. Treatment??? Torture???  Treatment??? Torture??? And, no you don't get to decide. Torture. The right people just haven't noticed this yet.

As I recall, it's illegal to abuse kids while filming movies and TV series. Where are the damned human rights orgs on this? Or maybe Britian film makers have different laws that allow for kids to be literally beaten, raped, tortured while filming. That sounds like porn.

You've changed too Who. You used to put forth a half-hearted attempt at rational debate. Did you spend the summer in seminars? You've gone from genuinely ignorant and deceptive to sadistic.

[RobertBruce]

Deborah please, Who didn't see it, therefore it never happened, and if it did you have to take it in perspective.

[egypt has pyramids]

I am sure this isn?t what you want to hear and you can slam it left and right, but it is how I feel about TV shows , I am a little skeptical.

When a program survivor writes a story describing abuse, programmies dismiss it and ask for proof in the form of pictures.

You give it to them in moving picture with sound and then they say they don't believe TV unless it's on PBS.

You can't win with these people.

 I don't think awareness is the key to this problem, not one bit.

[TheWho]

Yeh, all staged for the audience. Not a documercial, not a marketing ploy...  That's why every Aspen site, NATSAP program sites, even WWASP sites, and most recently a religious program site, makes reference to the series.

Aspen fucked up by letting that be aired. You know that and you have no rational excuse, so you divert, and make light of a girl being subjected to cruel, inhuman, and degrading treatment. It's just damned unfortunate that human rights organizations didn't go on the attack.

Just like they fucked up by filming the kid being forced to eat burned oatmeal mush while standing over a pit in case he vomited. If you haven't seen them, then you also missed the 14 year old boy on solo, burrowed into his sleeping bag, shaking uncontrolably and crying for his mother. Treatment??? Torture???  Treatment??? Torture??? And, no you don't get to decide. Torture. The right people just haven't noticed this yet.

As I recall, it's illegal to abuse kids while filming movies and TV series. Where are the damned human rights orgs on this? Or maybe Britian film makers have different laws that allow for kids to be literally beaten, raped, tortured while filming. That sounds like porn.

You've changed too Who. You used to put forth a half-hearted attempt at rational debate. Did you spend the summer in seminars? You've gone from genuinely ignorant and deceptive to sadistic.

I just saw the clip for the first time yesterday and found it was from a TV show.  I don?t mind taking the brunt of your anger, but you need to understand how all this works.  They first apply for a documentary status and apparently they got denied because who knows parts of it are not real, staged, not balanced (not showing good and bad) maybe one of those maybe all, so the next level is reality series, then weekly series etc.

You can honestly sit there with a straight face and say you would embrace this show if it were about only the kids who benefited, how much they got out of wilderness,  which college they want to attend and the excitement as they all get accepted to the same college (surprise) and jump up and down hugging because they will be together.  The series can continue to cover their college and professional advances in ?Brat Camp the college years? on and on.
I don?t think you would be onboard with it Deborah.

[Anne Bonney]

I just saw the clip for the first time yesterday and found it was from a TV show.  I don?t mind taking the brunt of your anger, but I want you to understand how all this works.  They first apply for a documentary status and apparently they got denied because who knows parts of it are not real, staged, not balanced (not showing good and bad) maybe one of those maybe all, so the next level is reality series, then weekly series etc.

I don't think anyone is claiming that it is a documentary in the true sense of the word.  It's not.  The incidents did happen, however.  That cannot be dismissed.  We, program vets from various eras and capacities, have told you that this is standard operating procedure for programs that are based on Synanon and LGAT methods.  You dismiss that.  We've told you that what we've read, even from your own and other supportive posts AND Aspen's own websites, is pretty much what we've experienced in our various programs.  You dismiss that.  You pretty much dismiss anything we have to say or point you towards while refusing to back up anything you've said.  Deb's right.  You're worse than before.  I didn't think it was possible.

[Ganja]

Yes or no, Who.  :rofl:

[TheWho]

I just saw the clip for the first time yesterday and found it was from a TV show.  I don?t mind taking the brunt of your anger, but I want you to understand how all this works.  They first apply for a documentary status and apparently they got denied because who knows parts of it are not real, staged, not balanced (not showing good and bad) maybe one of those maybe all, so the next level is reality series, then weekly series etc.

I don't think anyone is claiming that it is a documentary in the true sense of the word.  It's not.  The incidents did happen, however.  That cannot be dismissed.  We, program vets from various eras and capacities, have told you that this is standard operating procedure for programs that are based on Synanon and LGAT methods.  You dismiss that.  We've told you that what we've read, even from your own and other supportive posts AND Aspen's own websites, is pretty much what we've experienced in our various programs.  You dismiss that.  You pretty much dismiss anything we have to say or point you towards while refusing to back up anything you've said.  Deb's right.  You're worse than before.  I didn't think it was possible.

Well, as they say ?When in Rome??.?. This is how I found Fornits to work.   When I first started posting as well as many other first time parents along the way came here to tell their story it was dismissed also.  The feed back was negative.  Each time I answered someone?s question with how well my daughter was doing I was hit with ?Wait 5 years, she will kill you in your sleep?  ?Wait till the brain washing wears off, she was never helped, you will see?.  It seemed every negative experience needed to be attributed to the school and every positive growth needed to be attributed to natural maturation.   Everyone was skeptical of every positive statement because of what they had previously learned or heard, I guess.  If a new comer posted a bad experience there was instant acceptance of what they said no questions asked no need to prove they had a bad experience.
But anyway you can say I haven?t changed or gotten worse, but over the past 2 years I haven?t seen much of an effort to embrace or acknowledge the success or positive side of the TBS?s.  So I think there have been dismissals on both sides.

I really don?t want to go back searching for examples?.. if you feel this is bs just pass to the next post.

[TheWho]

Yes or no, Who.  :rofl:

I think I answered you a few posts back, I will see if I can find it.

Page 35, next one back.

[Ganja]

Yes or no, Who.  :rofl:

I think I answered you a few posts back, I will see if I can find it.

Page 35, next one back.

Thanks, but it was actually Guest420 who asked the original (yes/no) questions...

[Anne Bonney]

Well, as they say ?When in Rome??.?. This is how I found Fornits to work.   When I first started posting as well as many other first time parents along the way came here to tell their story it was dismissed also.  The feed back was negative.  Each time I answered someone?s question with how well my daughter was doing I was hit with ?Wait 5 years, she will kill you in your sleep?  ?Wait till the brain washing wears off, she was never helped, you will see?.  It seemed every negative experience needed to be attributed to the school and every positive growth needed to be attributed to natural maturation.   Everyone was skeptical of every positive statement because of what they had previously learned or heard, I guess.  If a new comer posted a bad experience there was instant acceptance of what they said no questions asked no need to prove they had a bad experience.

Not true.  What we've said is that based on our experiences both in programs and raising kids, that everything you've shown us or that we've found on our own about ASR and Carlbrook and HLA is precisely what we went through in our own programs as either inmates or employees.  We've proven over and over again the dangers involved with LGAT seminars, Synanon methods, mental or physical coersion and on and on and you continue to simply dismiss them.

I don't doubt that you're happy with your outcome.  My dad was too for many years.  I was just talking with one of my daughter's friends tonight about this.  She's home from college at Marywood (whodda thunk she'd go off to a Catholic school and become and atheist) and has been researching this on her own a bit, mainly the Stockholm Syndrome aspect of it.  She's studying that right now and is now fascinated by Fornits and this whole sick industry.  I didn't even realize for years what had been done to me.  I knew it sucked.  I knew I hated it, but I'd have told you that I "needed" it.  That it "helped me realize things about myself" and "challenged me to find my true potential".  I've heard and said everything that you are in defense of Straight.  

But anyway you can say I haven?t changed or gotten worse, but over the past 2 years I haven?t seen much of an effort to embrace or acknowledge the success or positive side of the TBS?s.  So I think there have been dismissals on both sides.

I guess there have.  I flat out dismiss the notion that TBS are positive in any way, shape or form.  You can't change someone against their will without breaking it first (nod to Cassandra).

I really don?t want to go back searching for examples?.. if you feel this is bs just pass to the next post.

Yeah, we know. :roll: