The Who

[Troll Control]

I do have to run, but I have to say I was a little more than humored that you stayed straight faced when you asked me for facts when you have been relying on a TV show for the bases of your argument.  I don?t think you know how silly that makes you look.

You pompass ass!!  We're not relying on a TV show as the basis of our argument.  We're pointing to it as yet another example of the techniques used in these places.  We said that this is what you can expect from that facility....which is true.  We've also linked to numerous articles detailing the kinds of things that go on in these places.  I have drawn my own conclusions about Carlbrook, ASR, Hyde, HLA and quite a few others that employ the very same tactics used on me some twenty plus years ago, and posted those......as my opinion.  You made completely blanket statements as fact on the industry as a whole and would provide nothing to back up those ridiculous claims.

Welcome to Whoville, Anne!  Or, as I like to call it, "The Land of Suspended Reality..."

[Anne Bonney]

Whoville.  :rofl:

He is a piece of work, huh? :roll:

[Nihilanthic]

Yeah, he just corrupted N-Bot's memory.  

[Anne Bonney]

I have drawn my own conclusions about Carlbrook, ASR, Hyde, HLA and quite a few others that employ the very same tactics used on me some twenty plus years ago, and posted those......as my opinion.  

http://www.reason.com/news/show/117088.html

Meanwhile, other organizations found they could profit from tough love with legal impunity. As negative publicity finally began to hurt Straight and skepticism about the drug war itself grew, other groups began to use similar tactics, all converging on a combination of rigid rules, total isolation of participants from both family and the outside world, constant emotional attacks, and physical punishments. These programs were sold as responses not just to drug use but to teenage ?defiance,? ?disobedience,? ?inattention,? and other real or imagined misbehavior.

[Troll Control]

Whoville.  :rofl:

He is a piece of work, huh? :roll:

He's fucking shot, love.

[Anne Bonney]

From the AEG website.  These are the things that give me chills....

Outdoor education, also known as wilderness therapy or outdoor therapy, serves as a short-term, high-impact therapeutic alternative to help get troubled teens back on track and develop a sense of personal responsibility. The wilderness serves as the ultimate teacher that teens cannot manipulate. The therapeutic aspect combined with the adventure of the wilderness camping experience has been shown to be highly effective in transforming the attitudes and behaviors of children, teens, and young adults.

Therapeutic boarding schools, also known as emotional growth boarding schools, combine therapy with a rigorous academic curriculum to help students struggling with behavioral and emotional issues improve their life skills while gaining a valuable education. The residential environment removes the distractions that often sabotage struggling students in neighborhood schools and also creates a positive peer culture where students support and encourage each other both behaviorally and academically.

The 'assessment test'...
http://www.parentcheckin.com/assessment ... 98C0131%7D


Since I have no HTML skillz, could someone shorten that link for me so I don't screw up the thread if it does?  

Thx.

[TheWho]

I have drawn my own conclusions about Carlbrook, ASR, Hyde, HLA and quite a few others that employ the very same tactics used on me some twenty plus years ago, and posted those......as my opinion.  

http://www.reason.com/news/show/117088.html

Meanwhile, other organizations found they could profit from tough love with legal impunity. As negative publicity finally began to hurt Straight and skepticism about the drug war itself grew, other groups began to use similar tactics, all converging on a combination of rigid rules, total isolation of participants from both family and the outside world, constant emotional attacks, and physical punishments. These programs were sold as responses not just to drug use but to teenage ?defiance,? ?disobedience,? ?inattention,? and other real or imagined misbehavior.

I agree 100% that many places adopted policies that are harmful to kids and are still inbusiness.  I dont argue this point, they should be changed or shut down.  But to classify all TBS's as the same is untrue and misleading and shows a lack of understanding and or knowledge.  Many children do very well and benefit from their experience and turn their lives around.

[Anonymous]

"The Who" has mental health problems of his own. He doesn't see that his position is extreme, and the position of the lion's share of Program opponents is moderate. He sees us all as extremists and "moderate" as somewhere between our position and his.

There are some people here who oppose Programs and are extremists in their views about mental health and incarceration of criminals and such overall.

Most of the people here are moderates about mental health care, and moderates about crime and punishment, who just oppose one highly dubious treatment modality.

"The Who" strikes me as the kind of guy who regularly makes the mistake of thinking "moderate" means halfway between his position and the other guy's---when that's not what "moderate" is at all.

As anybody who's not viewing the world through a twisted prism understands.

Ever noticed that any concessions "The Who" makes about bad things in the Programs serve more to prove to himself that he's not rigid and extreme, rather than to actually talk about the problems with that treatment modality?

Every treatment has its problems and issues. It's just hard to protect your dedication to a really lousy treatment if you start genuinely discussing its problems versus its intended or actual benefits.

We've all got our issues and we've all got our damages---everybody on the face of this Earth has some.

This guy's particular issues and damages make it pointless to try to talk with him. He can't not be rigid and skewed---not without wanting to change some of his problems and the help of a really good therapist.

Which we're not.

The guy may function well enough to get by in life generally, but he's only gonna see the world through that skewed prism, and nobody here can change that.

I don't know what damaged him, I don't know how bad it is, I don't know if his life is otherwise peachy. I'm not trying to diagnose this total stranger with this, that, or the other. But it's clear from, what, a couple of years of talking to the guy? He's not looking at the same world as the rest of us are.

Julie

[Anne Bonney]

I have drawn my own conclusions about Carlbrook, ASR, Hyde, HLA and quite a few others that employ the very same tactics used on me some twenty plus years ago, and posted those......as my opinion.  

http://www.reason.com/news/show/117088.html

Meanwhile, other organizations found they could profit from tough love with legal impunity. As negative publicity finally began to hurt Straight and skepticism about the drug war itself grew, other groups began to use similar tactics, all converging on a combination of rigid rules, total isolation of participants from both family and the outside world, constant emotional attacks, and physical punishments. These programs were sold as responses not just to drug use but to teenage ?defiance,? ?disobedience,? ?inattention,? and other real or imagined misbehavior.

I agree 100% that many places adopted policies that are harmful to kids and are still inbusiness.  I dont argue this point, they should be changed or shut down.  But to classify all TBS's as the same is untrue and misleading and shows a lack of understanding and or knowledge.  

This is precisely the same argument I had with you, what, over a year ago now?  This basic premise, the fundamentals, the loins from which all TBS/RTC and the like have sprung  is inherently dangerous[/color].  There is no prettying it up, no softening it.  There is no kinder, gentler way to accomplish what you say these places accomplish.  Period.  You have to break someone's will before you can change them, against it.

Many children do very well and benefit from their experience and turn their lives around.

In your opinion.

[TheWho]

Julie -- missed you.  You sure do help their cause thank you for showing up!!

I like this:

"As anybody who's not viewing the world through a twisted prism understands"


Thats a classic.

[Nihilanthic]

And you back that up with what, Who?

Not "well they've been in business so long it must work" - actual proof.

Please, illuminate us with your knowledge!

[TheWho]

I have drawn my own conclusions about Carlbrook, ASR, Hyde, HLA and quite a few others that employ the very same tactics used on me some twenty plus years ago, and posted those......as my opinion.  

http://www.reason.com/news/show/117088.html

Meanwhile, other organizations found they could profit from tough love with legal impunity. As negative publicity finally began to hurt Straight and skepticism about the drug war itself grew, other groups began to use similar tactics, all converging on a combination of rigid rules, total isolation of participants from both family and the outside world, constant emotional attacks, and physical punishments. These programs were sold as responses not just to drug use but to teenage ?defiance,? ?disobedience,? ?inattention,? and other real or imagined misbehavior.

I agree 100% that many places adopted policies that are harmful to kids and are still inbusiness.  I dont argue this point, they should be changed or shut down.  But to classify all TBS's as the same is untrue and misleading and shows a lack of understanding and or knowledge.  

This is precisely the same argument I had with you, what, over a year ago now?  This basic premise, the fundamentals, the loins from which all TBS/RTC and the like have sprung  is inherently dangerous[/color].  There is no prettying it up, no softening it.  There is no kinder, gentler way to accomplish what you say these places accomplish.  Period.  You have to break someone's will before you can change them, against it.

Many children do very well and benefit from their experience and turn their lives around.

In your opinion.

again I agree, you cant change anyone against their will....
But what if you educate them, guide them and show them a better way?

[Nihilanthic]

But what if you educate them, guide them and show them a better way?

That is called "parenting". PROGRAMS do not do that. PROGRAMS are institutions that use coersion and isolation by various means to make people act differently.

[Anne Bonney]

But what if you educate them, guide them and show them a better way?

That is called "parenting". PROGRAMS do not do that. PROGRAMS are institutions that use coersion and isolation by various means to make people act differently.

Beat me to it Niles!

Who, if you've got enough dough to ship your kid off, then you've got enough to take some time off and actually PARENT your child.

[TheWho]

But what if you educate them, guide them and show them a better way?

That is called "parenting". PROGRAMS do not do that. PROGRAMS are institutions that use coersion and isolation by various means to make people act differently.

Yes they do!!  TBS's do exactly that !!  I know many kids first hand...
it works