The Who

[RobertBruce]

Look, you guys have an agenda,

So do you.

you throw accusations around like ASR doesn?t have licensed counselors, their licenses expired etc. and its all lies to smear them because they go against your position that there are no good TBS?s and all kids do poorly etc.

Sort of how you dismiss accusations without cause, claim things are on the level when obvious illegal practices are taking place, and you lie about these places all to reinforce your position that there are no bad TBS's and all kids succeed etc.

DJ, you have been caught in too many lies and fabrications in your need to suit your personal agenda?.

Like what? Follow your list off with explinations as to the numerous lies youve been caught in. Lies you made to suit your agenda.

?. Instead of trying to tear every building and discredit good people

Which good people? Ol Rudy? Is he a good person?

you should be trying to help out some of the kids and work towards improvements in these areas.

We already do that Cindy, its you that hasnt helped these kids.

[TheWho]

People, there is only one Ralph Cohen practicing in Massachusetts.  Its public information, Its there for anyone to research:

http://profiles.massmedboard.org/MA-Phy ... sp?ID=7087

[TheWho]

It's actually probably Ralph L. Googling for Ralph S. Cohen gives a professor of the subject who probably had no logical need to renew his license (as he's out of active practice).

Primary Work Setting:          Private Office
Business Address:       664 Main Street
Suite 54
Amherst, MA  01002

That doesn't sound like a TBS to me. This doesn't make much sense. Why would incorrect information be in a place like that?

Amherst is a neighboring town, he has a private practice.

[RobertBruce]

Cindy why are you getting so upset?

[Troll Control]

Yes, the kids and counselors broke into groups several times a week and had discussions, talked about progress,? how we doing? checks etc.

We did this in our high school growing up. Where is there a law against this. The problem with what you say and the reason you lose credibility is that you present no facts or laws to base your accusations on. What law has been broken?

If only this fantasy were true, Who.

The fact is that these are group counseling sessions, not "progress meetings."  This has been abundantly documented by people who actually went thru the program (confrontation, explicit details of sexual encounters, etc).  These are three times weekly "group therapy" sessions (call them what you want, they are what they are) facilitated by unlicensed staff.  This is illegal and it's called "providing therapy without a license" and it's a serious matter.

Now, Who, what type of high school did you go to that had three times weekly therapy sessions?  For that matter, what type of high school even has three times weekly "progress meetings" with counselors?  That doesn't even pass the smell test.  More BS from a BSer.  

Let's not forget that ASR is a spin-off of HLA, founded by the same person, based on the same model, running the same scams.

We'll just have to see what happens when the state intervenes.  I guess we will then know the full extent to which laws have been broken or circumvented.  I'm getting some folks together now that will be crawling through all of ASR's paperwork with the state and pointing out "irregularities."  I guess then we'll see where ASR stands on the legal issues.  

Remember, Who, you said all of the same things about HLA and you were wrong on all counts, as proven by ORS's reclassifying HLA as a Residential Childcare Facility, which is what ASR is also - a glorified treatment center with none of the patient protections or rights.  All it took was one person from one agency to start digging and the house of cards fell flat.

Look, you guys have an agenda, you throw accusations around like ASR doesn?t have licensed counselors, their licenses expired etc. and its all lies to smear them because they go against your position that there are no good TBS?s and all kids do poorly etc.

DJ, you have been caught in too many lies and fabrications in your need to suit your personal agenda?. Instead of trying to tear every building and discredit good people, you should be trying to help out some of the kids and work towards improvements in these areas.

So, you still can't name the allegedly licensed therapist your kid saw every week for two years? :roll:

You now also back away from your statement that your high school was just like ASR with three times weekly progress meetings with counselors? :roll:

I spend an inordinate amount of time helping kids.  For years I treated kids who were victims of the programs you support - kids who were horribly abused and suffered from PTSD due to placements in facilities like ASR.  Now I help them by getting abusive places shut down and getting them the hell out of there and into real treatment.  What's wrong with that?

BTW, a fundamentally flawed modality can't be improved - these facilities suffer from design flaws.  It needs to be scrapped and a new model made.  Putting lipstick on pig doesn't change the fact that it's a pig.

[Troll Control]

::crybaby:: <------ TheWho, or as he is known in the real world, Scooter Libby.

[TheWho]

::crybaby:: <------ TheWho, or as he is known in the real world, Scooter Libby.

So I guess you can see that ASR has licensed counselors?

I heard a rumor that they dont use 30% recycled paper.  This may be an area where you can expose them, maybe get a "Green peace" march out front of the school....there has to be something you can shut them down for... hey?  You want to save face, I know you...
Oh wait, you call me silly names... that makes you feel better

[RobertBruce]

Cindy are the people facilitating group therapy licensed?

Yes or no?

[Troll Control]

::crybaby:: <------ TheWho, or as he is known in the real world, Scooter Libby.

So I guess you can see that ASR has licensed counselors?

I heard a rumor that they dont use 30% recycled paper.  This may be an area where you can expose them, maybe get a "Green peace" march out front of the school....there has to be something you can shut them down for... hey?  You want to save face, I know you...
Oh wait, you call me silly names... that makes you feel better

No, I actually looked at their website a few minutes ago and several have no licenses, just like their teachers.

Now, Who, I've patiently waited for you to explain your high school that had group therapy three times a week and to tell me who your kid's therapist was at ASR.  C'mon, Scooter, you can remember.  you only dealt with her for TWO YEARS...

I'm sure once we start digging there will be plenty to shut them down with - not recylced paper, but probably unlicensed counselors and teachers would be a start.  You'll read it in the (hopefully recycled) paper when my work is complete ; )

Again, Scooter, tell me who the the therapist was.  And tell me about your "normal" highschool where the entire student body had three times weekly counseling sessions... :roll:

[TheWho]

DJ wrote:

So, you still can't name the allegedly licensed therapist your kid saw every week for two years?

We just proved they have licensed therapists at ASR.  She saw a licensed therapist, it pretty ease to understand and believe, DJ.  Give it up, anyone can see they are licensed, we established this,  unless you want to make everyone believe all the kids at ASR saw a licensed therapist except my daughter?Hmmmm.

You now also back away from your statement that your high school was just like ASR with three times weekly progress meetings with counselors?

We broke into groups when I was in highschool and discussed ?How we doing? get strategies for paper assignments, working with a lab group in biology.  It wasn?t 3 times a week but it was periodically.  They were facilitated by a teacher or assistant. (they were not trained therapists)?nobody got hurt or went to jail because of it, no abuse occurred that I can remember

[RobertBruce]

We just proved they have licensed therapists at ASR.

No, youve shown that there might be one licensed therapist at ASR. All the others being unlicensed yet still practicing therapy.

Illegal yes or no?

She saw a licensed therapist, it pretty ease to understand and believe, DJ. Give it up, anyone can see they are licensed, we established this, unless you want to make everyone believe all the kids at ASR saw a licensed therapist except my daughter?Hmmmm.

Fine, then give us the persons name so we can verify it. In the meantime the only thing that anyone can see is that youre dodging the questions and avoiding the truth. Your typical M.O.

We broke into groups when I was in highschool and discussed ?How we doing? get strategies for paper assignments, working with a lab group in biology. It wasn?t 3 times a week but it was periodically. They were facilitated by a teacher or assistant. (they were not trained therapists)?nobody got hurt or went to jail because of it, no abuse occurred that I can remember

This is not even close to what group therapy consist of at these places, if you believe its the same thing youre dumber than I thought.

So then with that in mind the question remains:

Is group therapy being facilitated at ASR but unlicensed people?

yes or no?

[RobertBruce]

Cindy,

1. What points specifically do you believe you've "proven us wrong" on?

2. What is your definition of "group therapy"?

3. How do you believe kids should prove their claims of abuse?

4. What specifically have you done to help the kids locked up in these places?

5. Why did you lie claiming ignorace concerning the fact that TBS's lie to state regulators?

6. Why do these places avoid regulation if as you claim they have the kids best interest at heart?

7. What TBS's are bad in your opinion and why?

8. Why dont the people you claim to work with defend you?

9. Why havent the people mentioned in your PM's shown up?

10. Should therapy be given by unlicensed people?

11. Do you believe yourself to have high level of credibility here on fornits?

12. Are you an "axe grinder" with an agenda here?

13.How does you shipping your daughter off to a kiddie prison qualify you to commentate on the entire industry and determine what information parents need and what they dont need?

14. Since we've established that many times the murders that occur in the PTS are swept under the rug or lied about, how can you determine they should not count as homicides?

15. What are the proper procedures for killing a child?

16. Why did you change your mind regarding your feelings on regulation?

17. Why do you believe the person feeding the 300+lbs counselor should be held respondsible for the kids death at Eckerd, when the counselor not only chose to over eat, but to sit on the boy as well?

18. How many program owners do you personally know?

19. How does the fact that you claimed no evidence existed of kids being abused at ASR not translate in your mind to you dismissing their claims?

20. Since you did not experience the school for yourself how can you claim it to be positive?

[Troll Control]

DJ wrote:

So, you still can't name the allegedly licensed therapist your kid saw every week for two years?

We just proved they have licensed therapists at ASR.  She saw a licensed therapist, it pretty ease to understand and believe, DJ.  Give it up, anyone can see they are licensed, we established this,  unless you want to make everyone believe all the kids at ASR saw a licensed therapist except my daughter?Hmmmm.

You now also back away from your statement that your high school was just like ASR with three times weekly progress meetings with counselors?

We broke into groups when I was in highschool and discussed ?How we doing? get strategies for paper assignments, working with a lab group in biology.  It wasn?t 3 times a week but it was periodically.  They were facilitated by a teacher or assistant. (they were not trained therapists)?nobody got hurt or went to jail because of it, no abuse occurred that I can remember

At this point I don't even believe you have a daughter, but I digress.

Can you explain to me, since you can't seem to remember any details about this this therapist that you worked with for two years :roll: , how the single licensed provider at ASR sees all two hundred (my estimate, but you can correct me) kids each week for individual counseling sessions?

Also, can you explain how group therapy is conducted by unlicensed staff three times a week?

Thanks.

[Deborah]

We just proved they have licensed therapists at ASR.

Two. Out of 11. Other than the error re: Cohen- forgot psychiatrists are licensed as MDs, the rest of the info is accurate
http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=20728
and can be verified at
http://www.mass.gov/dpl/boards.htm

Why aren't the Director and Assoc Director of Counseling licensed?

[Deborah]

http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p= ... dc5#194310

I think the point is, we dont know, we are all just guessing.  Is it important?  Maybe to some, doesnt seem to effect the outcome "Kids going to college".  Its been 12 years, the money is rolling in why bother?  If I was ASR, I wouldnt be busting my butt to get certified, licensed if it wasnt going to add value to the kids or the schools they are trying to get in to.  It means adding more paperwork and yearly follow-ups to do which cuts into ptofits.

If the parents make it an issue, we will push it thru, in the mean time lets keep and association with the local school system and focus on other, more important issues.

Who is WE?