Author Topic: Three Springs wilderness camps  (Read 32523 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #135 on: October 13, 2006, 02:18:17 PM »
Actually, your original post suggested, and the edited one still implies, that you are talking about a single, identifiable, residential treatment facility.

Which one?
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Offline Sark

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« Reply #136 on: October 13, 2006, 02:23:30 PM »
It's not relevant.

Unless of course you're going to use it to call me brain dead, or otherwise paint a target on me and drop torpedoes on my head.

Who said BM doesn't work?   Hmmmmm  That's BS.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #137 on: October 13, 2006, 02:26:15 PM »
But how do you intend to present positive evidence relating to a residential treatment facility if you can't make the name available?
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #138 on: October 13, 2006, 02:36:05 PM »
Quote from: ""esarks""
It's not relevant.
.


It is relevant.  You're telling us that you've found a good, safe and effective program.  If it truly is then it can surely stand up to a little scrutiny.  Obviously we're not going to agree on a lot of things but this is a completely open forum so you're free to point out where we're wrong.  If some people call you brain dead and offer no opinion as to why they disagree with you, ignore them and state your position to the rest of us.  I don't understand why that is so difficult for you.  Yes this board is rough but it is possible to carry on a conversation even in the middle of all of it.  You seem dead set on only responding to or focusing on the people who are giving you shit.  That's a very convenient excuse for ignoring questions you either can't or are afraid to answer.  There seems to be about 3 others of us who are asking for a rational discussion.  Quit being such a baby and deal with them.
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Offline Troll Control

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« Reply #139 on: October 13, 2006, 03:18:30 PM »
Quote
Albert Ellis and REBT


I have to confess that I'm not up to speed about this particular form of treatment.  From a quick read, it appears to be somewhat of a hybrid of tried-and-true methods, CBT (cognitive behavioral therapy) and RET (rational emotive therapy).  If that's true, it should have merit in certain circumstances.  I myself subscribe to the principles of RET and have had quite a bit of success with it.

I am wary of behavioral approaches because, although they work to change some behaviors, the changes are not enduring and are not transferable, i.e. they are environment-specific.

Of course, from a basic view of psychology, treating behaviors is akin to treating symptoms in medicine.  Treating the behavior alone does not address the underlying psychopathology and therefore is inherently ineffective (like giving aspirin for Dengue fever - the pain is lessened, but the disease is still deadly, despite the lack of symptoms).  

For example, any basic psych 101 text will use the phrase "A - B - C" or "attitudes create behaviors and behaviors create consequences."  The problem with behaviorism is that it addresses only the behavior and the consequence and gives no gravity to the attitude, which, of course, is the genesis for all behaviors not related to biological survival.

It is my opinion that "programs" are largely ineffective due to this very basic flaw in their construction.

Beyond this, I suppose the conversation is over, as you have chosen not to specify which program you are patronizing or discuss its methods.  I suspect it is largely BM, as every program I have ever studied has its basis in BM.

If you'd like to discuss this issue further, it will require your disclosure of specifics.  Of course, I would recommend you do not disclose personal information like your name, email address or other such particulars in an open forum, but if you could tell me what your child's presenting diagnosis is and which program you sought treatment from, I'm certain I can offer some insight and advice.  Otherwise, good luck with your kid and sincerely hope it all works out for your family.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #140 on: October 13, 2006, 04:12:46 PM »
It seems a judgement based on diagnosis alone, without the situation context, would be difficult...wouldn't it?

PTSD, severe depression, and defiant behavior.  She was borderline eating disorder - although a clinical instrument did not reveal anerexia per se.  She was doing self harm.

After seeing her recently, her therapist said she (I'm paraphrasing because I don't remember the exact words she used) has made enormous improvements in her assurance of herself, her overall attitude, and ability to overcome irrational thoughts with rational.  She sees no indications of self harm.  Her attitude of her sexual / emotional abuser was healthy and rational.

She is in a Three Springs facility, soon to be out.  With that said... We have been heavily involved in processing issues with her and driving much of the therapy process as we can.  Yes, the program provides a vehicle for structure (which I guess is part of your agrument), but I don't believe a program alone (i.e. sending the kid off to be fixed) can work effectively by itself.

Maybe I'm speaking too early.  If I am understanding your position correctly, you believe any changes that may be evident (if they are even evident) will not be lasting?
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #141 on: October 13, 2006, 04:17:26 PM »
I just pullled this off of the ST site.  I'm curious to get everyone's thoughts on this post from there.





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Member # 4289

Sorry hb~
I know how difficult it is to "let them go" and to watch them walk out that door. Hopefully your son will quickly realize that life at home isn't so bad. You may find that this time 'on his own' proves more productive than harmful. That has been our experience.

I was talking to my daughter about this thread ... read her my response. She made such an insightful comment that I would like to share it with you. She reminded me that when we pulled her out of bed almost two and a half years ago and flew her across the country - that it was OUR decision to make her stop using, cutting, running away, etc. That WE desired for her to "get better". But, when she came home (16 months later ... drug free, etc.) she subconsciously decided to "pick up where she left off". Yes she left home, used drugs, cut, etc. It was at THAT time that she decided for HERSELF that SHE no longer wanted to live that way. In psychobabble terms she had made an internal choice regarding her behaviors (rather than having externals forced upon her). That made so much sense to me. She owned her own decisions and her own recovery. She owned her own life. It was a epiphany moment for me and I understood at a much deeper level why she made some of the post program choices that she made.

I hope that helps. Your son has the tools. He knows how the game is played. He now has to decide on his own what life is going to look like.

Hang in there. Jane is right. You'll be OK.

--------------------
Kelly
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Offline Sark

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« Reply #142 on: October 13, 2006, 04:25:45 PM »
DJ I messed up and posted as Guest...

And it was her therapist at home who assessed her recently...
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quot;The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposing ideas at the same time and retain the ability to function.\"  - F. Scott Fitzgerald

\"We are beings of light, and whatever obscures that light can be examined.\" - Sark

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #143 on: October 13, 2006, 07:37:31 PM »
PSTD, depression and cutting.  Hmmm. Makes sense: being abused is traumatic and depressing and most people cut because of the emotional pain.  I sincerely hope your family will take the steps necessary to make the abuser accountable for his or her actions.  Justice can go a lvery long way towards helping the depression.  Many kids feel like they are at fault and are less than nothing when they've been abused then a lot of them get abandoned and shipped off to abusive "behavioral" schools which only adds to the feelings of hopelessness and devaluation ( and reinforces the feeling that it is all their fault).  I hope this will not be the case for your daughter and that she will find empowerment in seeing her abuser held accountable.  Good luck.
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Offline mbnh31782

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« Reply #144 on: October 13, 2006, 07:45:42 PM »
Just for clarification esarks -- is your daughter still at three springs, because i have half a mind to call child protective services based on what i know about the company.
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Offline Deborah

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« Reply #145 on: October 14, 2006, 12:40:40 AM »
Might ask her if she's been required to do any role playing exercises in which she plays the victim. Seems to be a popular technique in the industry.
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Offline Sark

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« Reply #146 on: October 14, 2006, 10:08:07 AM »
Let me try to clarify my position... I am not advocating residential therapy as an ideal solution.  In my opinion, it is a last resort to be avoided if possible.  But I do feel it is an option in the continuum of care for some rare situations.

I am advocating trying to find solutions to avoid residential therapy, just like I believed we tried to do.  Especially if the greatest indicators are merely defiant behavior.  I was, however, convinced my child's safety was at great risk in her current environment, and that her life was in danger.

I'm not waving a banner for any program trying to get parents to send their kids to be fixed.  I believe in our situation the program has helped, rather than hurt.

If you feel you must campaign to close all the programs down - that can certainly be your position.  And if there are atrocities being committed, those must be exposed.  Get your cameras, or whatever you need, and publish them on the front page.

Question:  What are the keys to successful transitions from residential treatment?
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quot;The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposing ideas at the same time and retain the ability to function.\"  - F. Scott Fitzgerald

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Offline Sark

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« Reply #147 on: October 14, 2006, 03:47:16 PM »
If the APA is totally opposed to residential treatment for adolescents then why was this residential program awarded the APA Gold Award?  In other words, are there settings where the APA acknowledges adolescent residential treatment?  If so, what are the guidelines as spelled out by the APA for those settings?  How would we use those guidelines to determine how the APA would view a program such as Three Springs?

2004 APA Gold Award: Using Dialectical Behavior Therapy to Help Troubled Adolescents Return Safely to Their Families and Communities

The Grove Street Adolescent Residence of The Bridge of Central Massachusetts, Inc.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
quot;The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposing ideas at the same time and retain the ability to function.\"  - F. Scott Fitzgerald

\"We are beings of light, and whatever obscures that light can be examined.\" - Sark

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #148 on: October 14, 2006, 05:33:54 PM »
Quote
What are the keys to successful transitions from residential treatment?

The layman's answer to this question is "Accuracy, stealth, and weapon choice", but as a more studied person I'd have to say "Prior planning, technical know-how, and training". Even if you've performed an extermination/evacuation with a 100% kill/release rate, if the old school bus you 'borrowed' for the operation breaks down five miles out on I-90 west out of Montana, you're pretty much SOL.

Successfully transitioning teens from residential treatment is not for everyone. If you have a heart condition, high blood pressure, or bad aim, consult your doctor before emptying any facility.

Quote
If the APA is totally opposed to residential treatment for adolescents then why was this residential program awarded the APA Gold Award?


Let's review, shall we?

- Therapy provided by extremely well-qualified professionals; consists of actual therapy, not LGATs or cult bullshit
- Non-profit; no incentive to keep children in
- Focuses on returning children to the community
- Follows the least-restrictive-placement idea of psychiatric treatment
- Understands that the home environment is usually part of the problem, and provides therapy to parents

In other words, Grove Street is fairly much the antithesis of the programs discussed here at Fornits.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #149 on: October 14, 2006, 05:42:12 PM »
I would like to  know when and if you are going to help your daughter by having her abuser arrested?  Until she knows that justice is being sought there will always be a big hole in whatever therapy etc.  you provide for her.   So who is it and what is being done?  I sure hope it is not a family member or boyfriend you want to protect.  The creep belongs in jail. And so do you if you do not seek justice for your daughter.
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