Three Springs wilderness camps

[Sark]

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[Sark]

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[Oz girl]

 She has spoken at a high school to parents about her journey and what she put her family through.  She doesn't want other teens to go through that.
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If this girl went to 3 springs bacause she was abused, why would the focus be on what she put the family through? If a kid became critically ill, the treatment would not have a component which emphasised the pain their reaction to it caused their family. What a terrible burden to put on a kid. I would hope any therapy surrounding the issue of abuse would focus on moving forward from something that the kid has no culpability in and restoring their faith in adults as protectors and guides!

[Anonymous]

I hesitate to disclose too many personal details.  The reason I posted my original message is because of the post that cited dissatisfaction with Three Springs.  I have no knowledge of other Three Springs programs, especially those where treatment is paid through other sources, such as the state.

Although I don't know the details of most of the other teens with my daughter, having spent enough time there it's not difficult to figure many of the teens have defiant behaviors, substance abuse issues, or have been exposed to sexual abuse resulting in PTSD or other emotional and social consequences.  It becomes a sea of turmoil and depression that is difficult for a child to escape from - even in a "normal" family where siblings and parents are living normal, adjusted lives.

Our counselors and medical professionals prior to Three Springs was an extensive team involved in treatment.  To be sure, they were well qualified and we were highly involved and sought multiple opinions.  Likewise we sought their counsel about Three Springs.

Yes, it is unfortunate when a child loses several years of their high school life.  What is more unfortunate is a child who loses their whole life because of being raped or otherwise abused and they never recover emotionally or physically.

How do I know if she's made progress?  Observation.  Behavior changes are evident and obvious.  By her own testimony, she is thankful to have had this opportunity and considers it to have saved her life.  She's not "happy" to be there - she is thankful and believes it was absolutely necessary.  No, she is not brainwashed.  She has emerged from her cocoon and is alive again.  She has spoken at a high school to parents about her journey and what she put her family through.  She doesn't want other teens to go through that.

This is a residential treatment facility / school.  It is not a summer camp.  No, we do not call whenever we feel like it.  Although, as I said, conferences can be called.  Children do make home visits, in later stages every month for 5, 6, 7, or 8 days - as more days are earned.  They are able to fly by themselves.  Parents visit the facility every month.  Obviously, there are times when private communication occurs without someone listening in.

Of course she says all that!  If she doesn't, she's going to be labelled "not working the Program" and "not growing" and it'll be even longer before she can get the hell out of there.

She knows that, even if you don't.

You stuck a child abuse and/or rape victim in private prisons for three and half years?  I hope when you get old, while you're still mostly healthy and could get along with a nurse coming in to help twice a week for a couple of hours, she sticks you in the stinkiest, most callous, crappiest nursing home she can find and lets you sit there and rot.

Then I hope she tells everybody that you're better off there because it has activities for people your age, and you're so much safer living there than trying to live on your own when you really can't anymore, and that really they've saved your life by protecting you from some horrible accident you could have had living in your own home.

I hope she does to you the exact same thing you've done to her, then goes around and prates to everybody about how well she's taking care of you and how well she's doing things "for your own good."

I hope she tells everyone how well you're doing in the place she picks out for you.

Julie

[Sark]

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[Anonymous]

It is obvious that this is someone who is a staff person talking about the program.  Three Springs Waygookin can tell you that all the childrens phone calls are monitored!  They start out as 5 minute calls and if the child manipulates the call they can imediately end the call.  Parents get a weekly update from their family service worker in which the website says is a bachelor level or higher person with a degree in the social science field.  As for the home visits the first visit is a visit on campus for the day the second visit is a visit close by for the day the third is a overnight visit close by and after that they can start earning home visits if they are all sucessful.  The key is that they must earn them they are not automatic.  A parent can come to the monthly parent support day and not even get to visit with their child if they are not earning it.

[Anonymous]

I hesitate to disclose too many personal details.  

I didn't really ask you for any personal details.  Certainly nothing that could identify you or your daughter.  I'm mainly asking about the qualifications of the people she's with and how their treatment works.  I haven't attacked you in any way.  I'm honestly trying to understand the kind of thinking that goes into making a decision like this.  I just don't get it.

Our counselors and medical professionals prior to Three Springs was an extensive team involved in treatment.  To be sure, they were well qualified and we were highly involved and sought multiple opinions.  Likewise we sought their counsel about Three Springs.

So then what are the qualifications of the counselors at Three Springs?

How do I know if she's made progress?  Observation.  Behavior changes are evident and obvious.

How can you observe her?  Sure you can go for a scheduled visit but what is that going to tell you?  


 

By her own testimony, she is thankful to have had this opportunity and considers it to have saved her life.  She's not "happy" to be there - she is thankful and believes it was absolutely necessary.  No, she is not brainwashed.  She has emerged from her cocoon and is alive again.  She has spoken at a high school to parents about her journey and what she put her family through.  She doesn't want other teens to go through that.

Yep, been there done that.  Part of her may even believe that, I did after having it drilled and consequenced into my head for a couple of years but once I got back out into civilization I was lost.  It wasn't until years after that I realized the extent of the damage and what I had lost.

This is a residential treatment facility / school.  It is not a summer camp.  No, we do not call whenever we feel like it.  

Can you though if you chose to do so?  Could you visit unexpectedly and speak with your child privately if you requested?

Although, as I said, conferences can be called.  Children do make home visits, in later stages every month for 5, 6, 7, or 8 days - as more days are earned.  They are able to fly by themselves.  Parents visit the facility every month.

You're basing your 'observations' on once a month and a few monitored phone calls??


 

Obviously, there are times when private communication occurs without someone listening in.

Really?  When would that be?  Do you have to sneak to do that?

[Anonymous]

Wow, that was fast.  Deleted their posts already.  What is so hard about answering a few questions?  They all seem to run away when you try and pin them down to any kind of specifics.

[Sark]

This isn't a group interested in open exchange.

You already know the answers... not worth my time.

[Anonymous]

Hey, those others might not be but I am.  I've asked you very direct, pointed questions without any attacks.  Please answer to the best of your abilities.

[mbnh31782]

I'm going to echo and reiterate what TSW has said here with my own experiences of "treatment team" and other such things that went on.

Most of us were either victimized by programs, have children who were victimized by programs, or a select few like me worked for programs

I, too, worked for a program and can call at least 2-3 other people who worked with me who would agree with my feelings and reasons why i think threesprings is fucked up.  I think i'll direct them here to fornits.  I didnt nearly work there as long as TSW but, i worked there for 3 months  and 2 weeks.  

Let's talk about treatment team:

Yep

Each week they meet and it consists of the following, The counselors and the group's family worker. Sometimes a supervisor will sit in on the meeting, but rarely ever is that the case.

Our "treatment teams" of my group consisted of myself, my co-counselor(s), thats if we werent off schedule, my supervisor, and the program director/assistant director or both.  Out of all of us, i dont think anyone had any degrees in any decent area.  The program director maybe, but very rarely.  

So the counselors sit around and talk about the progress of the kids through the stage system.

Yep, thats what happens, and in some cases where i worked, in the short term "shelter" area it was the points system.  Alot of the kids you would think were having good days and weeks and then they dont get the advance in their stage or level because of the shitty high expectations of the program.  Some of the shit they expected the kids to do in the program was nearly impossible.  The percentage points expectations for all of the kids were set way too high.  Instead of preparing them and helping them succeed, each week was a let down for all the kids especially those who were vindictively kept back because of a 1 percent difference.  All in all after "treatment" team we were  then expected to tell the kids they fucked up or passed for the week.   Yay us.

This is a subjective debate, nothing objective ever enters the fold.

This is very true.  All decisions were made on how well we felt the kid was doing or whether or not the kid would benefit from  having that 1 percent waived.  If we advocated that, we;d be seen as just wanting to avoid a conflict, if we didnt, we were told that everyone deserves a chance.  So lets just dangle the 1 percent in front of the kid and pray the kid doesnt blow.

Let's see about actual treatment shall we?

What treatment?

Huddles and nightly meetings? Yep if the kid has an issue that needs confronting, or something she or he needs to talk about a huddle is called.

Huddles were rarely called except maybe before or after meals and they were mainly called to divvy up the chores the kids had to do.  Occasionally we'd get a huddle that meant anything.

Nightly meetings is where they sit up in their campsite and spill the beans about their issues to the group. Alot of time the treatment team determines the topics, and the kid has to talk about it up to the level of satisfaction of the treatment team. No matter whether the kid wants to discuss it with his or her group or not.

Nightly was interesting.  The most fun it got was when my group decided to use an orange cup upside down on an orange plate to simulate the fire.  It was more fun watching them come up with the idea than it was to run the nightly meeting.  Most of our nightlys were ended with all of us wanting to get in out of the bugs.

Group meetings were held every Tuesday and Thursday, they did a substance abuse/alcohol group and a sexual abuse group.  All kids were required to participate in the groups.  Again i say most of the groups consisted of watching some dumb lifetime movie about a coach who rapes a student or 28 days (which isnt a bad movie in and of itself, but in this context was completely innapropriate)  They also discussed the different kinds of street drugs and played drug bingo.  This was done with the supervisor of the cabin who had no real psychological training.

I discovered that at base pay, i could become a caseworker/family service worker and work in the office for no extra pay with the SAME education level i presently have.

The actual face time with a psychologist or psychicatrist is roughly 30 minutes a month maybe.

Lady I hate to burst your bubble here, but the only thing your daughter really learned is how to keep a lid on her shit long enough to fake it to make it right out of the program.

Quoted for truth.

[Sark]

TSW...where is your published research and clinical trial results of what you'd do different...rather than sit on the sideline behind the keyboard and trash other programs...

I won't argue with what your experiences of done to you.  But you certainly are not projecting a mature, socialized adult who has the ability to contribute to our society.  Rather, you're acting like a bratty kid who wants to throw sand in the sandbox.

So, why should I listen to that?

[Anonymous]

Shouldn't you be deleting your own posts again about now? I don't see any reason to quote it, so why don't you just go ahead?

[Anonymous]

So, why should I listen to that?

You don't have to read his posts.  Just because you don't want to hear what he says doesn't mean he should stop saying it.

[Sark]

What would you do if you were me?  I believe it is my responsibility to do the best I can (albeit sometimes it is inadequate) to help my children become socialized contributors to this thing we call "our society."  What should we do with "troubled teens?"

I have other children who are well adjusted - although, I'm certain you would question that as well.  In undergraduate schools with full academic scholarships and in post graduate.  No, that doesn't mean success - but it is a measure of some success for THEM.

So I can sit on a board like this and bad mouth all the programs out there too.  I can tell every parent in my situation - your child will never learn.  Your doomed.  Give up!!!

Does that work?

How do you measure socialization?  Do you think that is one of the characteristics a program like TS is trying to accomplish?  Or should?  Aren't these the questions we should really be concerned about?  How do you measure that?