United Nations Formal Complaint Filed by Survivors

[Anonymous]

The fact is that there are a lot of us who have sucessfully dealt with our "Straight past" ,


What exactly do you mean buy the above?  What is your definition of success?

[Anonymous]

First, you don't have to die in order for your kids to wind up in the Program. Any involvement with law enforcement or failing a drug test can land the whole family in a situation where you have to choose between jail or treatment or even jail with or without treatment. Even an anonymou tip to the DARE cop based on nothing more than malice can do the trick. So life for the typical kid these days is very much like life for a Program sibling 20 years ago; it's always there, hanging over your head, we don't speak it's name lest it hear us! Shhhhhh!

Even adults, especially dark skinned, young, male young adults who wouldn't know which fork to use at a restaurant that uses cloth napkins can find themselves in the same situation. I'm concerned for all of these people as well as my own shiny white butt as much as for the unfortunate few on front row and the several thousand in the custody of WWAS type programs. (I believe these programs are a good deal more brutal than the host homes model, mainly because of the almost weekly reported deaths while in custody...)

Anyway, that's a serious problem that I believe has a lot to do with the fact that our current and past presidents are letting their big campaign contributors write public policy. They're not just mean spirited and greedy, either. I read in these forums recently that Melvin Sembler put his grandson in Pathway Family Center as late as 2001. They're true believers, just like the crusaders and inquisitioners and the Taliban's Ministry of Virtue and Vice. That's why they're so dangerous.

If it were just money, well there are simpler ways to make a whole lot of money. Importing coke and heroin, for instance (like some others of GW and Clinton supporters and point men) But I digress.

Yes, these are truely evil people. But that has less than nothing to do with legal standing for criminal or civil proceedings. I tend to believe FULaw is giving us the straight dish, so to speak, because he's saying just exactly the same thing that every other lawyer has said about it.

There are plenty of things we can do to help get these sadistic lunatics out of public policy. And I think the "team" is doing some of them pretty well. The most important and valuable thing anyone can do, imo, is to get this story into the media from any and every angle that offers. Kudos to everyone who helped get MSNBC interested in asking why Jeb! chose some program for Noelle other than SAFE. We don't know how they came about that, but it went national. Thanks to everyone who helped Radley Balko get his story together. Great work! That has had more impact than you may know. Etc. (there's just too much to list)

But that's all about getting the wackos out of public policy. If you want to talk about shutting down specific programs through lawsuits, we need people with recent experience who are willing to bring suite and/or to testify as witnesses in suites brought by others. Most people will not want to do this. It's not an easy thing to go through. But some people always do and we can help by making it easier for these folks to find each other. Just last August, Jeff Berryman was able to find 3 crucial witness to testify to ther recent experience at Tranquility Bay and the result was one little boy brought home under court order against the will of his &*()$%# father.

From time to time, CPS or other regulatory agencies will actually do something useful. I know they helped me get out of Straight back in `82. If they're interested, if we can get them interested, they still need recent witnesses, not witnessed to what happened over a decade ago.

AI ain't gonna move on this. AI, I do believe, has their hands full with wrongful state executions, kidnapping and death squads in Colombia, rampant prison rape and the like.

One of the most highly effective, low overhead activities that we, the aging former POWs, can engage in is ongoing news hawking and letter writing. Whenever you see any news or promo piece related to the Program, please share it with the rest of us and write to the publisher, editor, broadcaster or whatever. They won't print every letter. But if they get 10 or 100 along the same lines, they'll use one. If these types of ideas keep popping up, some journalist will investigate. These are the things that lead policy makers to change their views. I hate to tell ya'll but your grandma lied. It really is a popularity contest. The only way to get rid of thought reform as treatment is to make it unpopular.

Oh, btw, here's a target to keep an eye out for. Just a few minutes ago, some idiot on the idiot box informed concerned parents of the "signs" that your kid is being bullied in school. See if you can guess what they are. That's right, it wasn't the ganga after all making us act moody, disinterested in school, distant and to change our tastes in clothing and music. It was the bullies!

If you see this story pop up, just send in your comments to the effect that this sounds hauntingly familiar or whatever you feel moved to say about it.

And remember, he who laughs lasts.

[beckyuga]

I aqree 100% with Fue and Clay.  
There really is nothing we can do to those responsible for abuses that we experienced many years ago.  (In my case, 20 years ago.)  And I don't really feel a need to make anyone pay for the things done to me personally.  But I do believe in doing something to close down any program that currently engages in the abuse of children.

Becky

[2dogs]

My definition in this case would be: Having engaged in a course of thinking , living and taking actions that delivered me from fear , resentment, and anger over having spent 18 months of my mid-teens completely miserable from the time I woke up in the morning , well into my nightmares every night. With the outcome being satisfied with life reguardless of what happened then or is happening now.
   
   I don't like the thought of anyone having to go through what I did , but I sure as shit sleep fine every night anyway.  I did my bit , it sucked , I survived , thats life , I'm busy living it.  I would love to help but I'm not so stupid as not know when something is a big waste of time... and I'm pretty sure most everyone else around these sites isn't willing to have there time wasted either. Look at the stats , they don't lie.  Focus on the possible if you really want to start something. Not to discount what is already going...crawling.....Joey

[Dragnet]

Then we're all on the same side here.

On 2003-01-14 17:54:00, beckyuga wrote: "  But I do believe in doing something to close down any program that currently engages in the abuse of children. Becky    "

[Tampa survivor]

I just read some of the most intelligent posting I have seen in a while here.
Kuddos to Clay, various anons, and whoever else.  
I sleep fine.  I abhor the current wwasp programs, and use my position as an RN to advocate VOLUNTARY TX where it is called for for kids, adults, or anyone else who needs it.  TX does NOT work unless the treated person desires it.  Self improvement is an excruciating process of guided self evaluation, followed by decision making changes for improvement.
The Semblers and thier ilk do not GET IT.  I can not change them.  I was abused as hell by STRAIGHT, but as Joey said, I sleep just fine, and I eventually worked out most of my program based bugaboos.  
Knowing Miller is a discredited charlatan is grand.  Pinning him to a tree would do no more for me.  Everyone in the bussiness of rehab KNOWS straight was a failure...EXCEPT for those who still advocate coerced TX.  
Present day coercive treatment is what we should fight, as veterans of the same treatment modality we have a unique perspective on it, and therefore, credibility.
Someone said there are less posters now.  Yeah, I agree.  
I think it is more of a mission for me to help todays victims, and guide any who were with us back then and help them through thier awakening when they find this site.  
Bill
St Pete & Atlanta
12/80-12/82

[DIRTY HARRY]

:question:      Harry

[2dogs]

Just because you were in Straight or on staff does not obligate you to do anything. So grow up and quit trying to make everyone believe this LIE. "Cold feet syndrome" You idiots crack me up.  "I'm not there yet , so it's not ok for anyone else to be there yet either." Sad but yet still very funny...Joey

[ This Message was edited by: 2dogs on 2003-01-16 20:24 ]

[Serpico]

Let me see if I can explain a few things since it seems to be such a hot topic. I will do my best but I am sure once I do..


First since everyone is discussing it. Let me throw in my two cents on Fue Law. Hereafter known to me as Fue.

I do not believe you are an attorney.

Why? You ask, well ladies and gentlemen of the jury.

Do you believe that a lawyer would?

1) Have enough time to post here all the time.
2) Is it not odd that he ONLY shows up when the action committee does something to stop the abuse?
3) If he were a survivor and a lawyer and he felt that we could do something a better way, would it not make sense for him to suggest it as a professional would since that it was he claims to be.Would a professional attorney start out his conversations with very limited control and destine. Would a lawyer become almost beside himself at our actions. A lawyer who must remain calm in court and deal only with facts?
4)Where are the facts, has he presented any including his own name EVEN though a few weeks ago HE demanded our names. He even went so far as to say that because (paraphrasing here) we were anonymous our statements lost their crediability. Does that include him as well?
5) Did he specify any legal citing? No, he just said you cant do that. He did not cite Florida statues as we have done in our reports.


I ask you is this truly the behavior of an ATTORNEY.. I think not..
Now that we cleared that up..

Lets talk about this statue of limitations:

Lets talk rape: Here is FL Law on it.. might want to look this up Fue
In addition to the above, several states have no statute of limitations for prosecutions of the most serious forms of sexual assault, regardless of the age of the victim. These include Florida, Indiana, Mississippi, New Jersey, New Mexico and South Dakota .

Now shall we move on ladies and gentleman to this issue of the past?

The question can you prosecute someone for say something like assault and battery committed ten or twenty years ago.
According to the statues. NO.
Could you say charge someone with medical neglect from say fifteen years ago.
According to the statues. No.

Umm, well if we know that, that why would we form a committee now? What could the benefit be, to bringing up stories from ten years ago or even twenty years ago.
In the case of criminal charges from the past, Almost none. That?s even true of civil lawsuits as they have a statue of limitations as well (you taking notes Fue).
So why do it?
Several reasons:
1) You could use the past twenty years to PROVE that this treatment modality does not work..
2)You could further prove since there wasn't one STRAIGHT NOT ONE that wasn't ACCUSED of abuse that this type of treatment ALMOST guarantees abuse. Twenty year history of abuse is a pretty compelling case against a treatment modality wouldn't you agree.
3) Lets suppose that in say 1983 you were tortured in Straight. You were aware when you came out as an adult that it was abuse and you filed a civil action against X staff member and the case went wherever. Now, lets say that twenty years later you realize that it was not ONLY X staff member, but now evidence exsist that proves that the State of Florida facilitated, allowed and condoned the abuse. Facts that were not available then. Well, the appeals court just might think you have a case. Maybe......
4) Now , why else would you build a pattern of abuse. Well, lets see if you wanted to prove that a particular person "knew or should have known" (that?s the civil legal test Fue) of the abuse and you did prove that , then you could also prove that this person condoned it and or chose not to do anything about it. Now, lets see if you knew someone in government office and you found out that they had supported not one year, not five years but TWENTY YEARS of abuse would you not be inclined to make darn sure they hold no place in government. Could that be another reason?

Now lets see what else could you do with twenty years of information ladies and gentleman.

Well, lets say program A is open .... and program B is closed and it closed under allegations of abuse with document after document of medical negligence, kidnapping torture for say over five years. but oddly enough its all the same people . If I came to you and said umm, these are all the same people , think we ought to look into it or perhaps these folks have totally changed. What are the odds that they have changed?

Now what else could we use all these tons of documents spanning twenty years for... umm

Ladies and gentlemen... this woman to your left named BS has her own day in Florida , thats right she has been HONORED for her work with Straight , well here is twenty years of documented abuse, kidnapping , medical neglect and the list goes on . That she (watch this Fue) KNEW OR SHOULD HAVE KNOWN was taking place , you the jury get to deicide if she keeps her day. What ya think? Yes, or No.

Now lets see what else could we possibly do with all those documents from So many years ago. Umm well lets see if we use those documents,, what if ... lets just say that a person is now working with children. Lets say Miller Newton is working with children (relax he's not). Could we then as our moral and civic duty bring it to the attention of whomever. Of course, we could. Not only that Florida law says we MUST REPORT SUSPECTED ABUSE.

Now, I am not going to divuldge our whole plan here as that would be stupid.
We however do have one, unlike Fue apparently. Who not only doesnt have a plan but has only negative things to say when we do accomplish something.

As for are you emotionally ready to deal with Straight? Some are, and some aren't and for the some that aren't anyone with any compassion at all completely understands that including us.

Now I hope that clears up why, SOME documentation is necessary for over the last twenty years. We also collect ALOT of current or recent documentation.

Our goal is to close ALL abusive rehabs. Period.

Now I am no attorney , and my best guess is nither is fue but we do have one. I am but a paralegal

Hence our teams very chosen responses.

The prosecution rest your honor.

Your friend
Serp..

[Tampa survivor]

Ragging on Clay?  One of the more succesfull posters who helped with intelligent, empathetic posts 8 months ago when I was FREAKED by two years of absolute shit I put up with???
WHAT GIVES?
Attacking a man for his thoughts??
Acting as if this board is your bully pulpit???
Mike Sherman told me once that it took time for his anger to settle to a REASONABLE thinking level where effective change in drug policy could be sought by him.....
If you remember....or were here when Hedwigfan and Marnie (former Senior staffers)showed up, I was gnawing at the bit to hang 'em high.  Then I traded a few private emails with them.  I learned that their hell was even greater than mine, as I "never gave in" and they perpetuated the madness.  
Yeah I am proud of that. I resisted, split 5 times and am sure at least one guy who had me as a nuke wishes i never existed.  
Some aren't that strong.  I FORGAVE them.
I WROTE Executive Inferno as a blow off to vent my anger  at the adults.
Here are a few facts that encouraged me to stay out of the "fight"
1)  Wes may be a hero to some, and has been informative to all, but the chinese flag bit turned me off a bit. Personal axes to grind or geopolitical symbols have no place in the "fight"
2)I have represented myself successfully in court more than once and make it a point to know the law.  WE ARE NOT THE ROSEWOOD DESCENDANTS!!!
 As far as anyone like JURIES are concerned, we got what our dope smoking asses deserved. Ever been involved in an illegal drug trial with a jury?  I have.  They can't relate to us.  They usually support the drug war.  
3)Appellate courts don't use juries, they use case law and statute to determine cases.  
4)Rape convictions take EVIDENCE.  In the ER at TGH (Hillsborough county's rape crisis center), an exacting process of incredible detail in used to put together EVIDENCE.  Then the case MIGHT be worthy of proscecution.  My oldcomers $%$% me 20 years ago doesn't get it.  FACT
SAD BUT TRUE.  Ask a proscecuter.  My uncle is an attorney. He said  said it would not make it past an initial screening without witnesses AND multiple victim complaints against the same person this far out in years.  Prove it wasn't consensual.  PROVE it even happened. Forget it
5)  STRaiGHT IS GONE.
6)  STRAIGHTS DESCENDENTS ARE GONE.
7)  LIABILITY IS NOT CARRIED FORWARD TO SUCCESOR CORPORATIONS.  
:cool:The politician angle won't wash either.  Most are gone, and as anyone with a poli-sci degree can tell you, the type of protection deals which OBVIOUSLY protected Straight are not written anywhere.  A 20 year old phone call from a powerfull contributor is impossible to PROVE.
I HATE what the Semblers are.  A shame to their race (Jewish), bastards of the highest kind.  Miller Newton deserves what he got...bad health, neighbors who hate him, and exposure of his wrongs.  
Just because I wish the abusers were paying for it doesn't mean it will happen in court.
9)The treatment modality has been debunked.  The only people who still buy it are foolish parents, and they will send their basket case kids OFFSHORE to places like Traquillity Bay.

Marti, you don't need to rag on the folks who make this board great just because we use logic to pick our fights.
Bill Hadley
St Pete & Atlanta
12/80-12/82

[FueLaw]

Your a pathetic loser !!!!!

Put your money where your mouth or keyboard is. How much you willing to bet on your last post ?

[Dragnet]

I'm willing to bet that an actual attorney wouldn't misspell the word "you're."

On 2003-01-15 18:21:00, FueLaw wrote:
"Your a pathetic loser !!!!!

Put your money where your mouth or keyboard is. How much you willing to bet on your last post ? "

[Maltese Falcon]

Joey,

We'll ya know what? 20 years went by and I didn't have a clue about Straight or what happened to the principles involved nor cared one bit. One year ago I got a call from my best friend who told me to get on the net and see what people are saying about Straight. I was floored. Upon understanding the depth, breadth, influence these people "the Semblers and associates" have hade and continue to have on AMERICA and our kids I made a conscious decision to do what I can to tell the story.

Joey I sleep fine at night knowing that I live a very exciting life of which this straight stuff is a small part of. I have not been stuck in the past but what frightens me is how people are so willingly turn the other cheek like that's the moral high ground. Maybe the Jews should get over it and close all the museums right? What the heck are they thinking? Why is it important to tell their story? And how ironic that Sembler is or was on the board of ST. Pete and Washington holocaust Museum? Doesn't that bother you as an American? It bothers me that after all the talking that has gone on these boards nothing has been done to really explain in the public eye about these people. They are still there. I believe it is our responsibility to explain this story as best we can. We are obligated to do the best we can in order to make America a better place in which to live. Even though I will be living abroad soon America is my home.

I keep hearing "nothing can be done' As long as you believe that then that will be your reality. However I have learned that "I" can move mountains and I will. I have overcome great odds in my life and have had great ups and downs but I wouldn't trade any of it.

Look, I just want the story to be told and let the chips fall where they may. We all went through hell, but that's not what is important. Action is however because this effects the world we live in now. If everyone just keeps talking and posting nothing will be done, the nay sayers will get their way. Also therapy wise this has been great for me. I don't need therapy however when you come face to face with someone like David Crock like I have numerous times including standing in front of his house with channel 10 news because he refused to talk with me or come to the conference. This helps me deep down. I belive if you were standing next to me you would feel how much you have buried deep down inside. You can't understand this until you face you abusers whom ever they were. I am not a victim of Straight anymore. This delivers me from fear. The fear I have now is that I won't make a difference.

The bottom line is we are all connected through our experiences. God bless all of ya..............However the story of our collective lives and the principles involved needs to be told because these people are "current" in our society!!! They still effect your lives. Ever look at the cost of the Drug war? You continue to be effected by these people and the laws they have passed don't you see. It's not 20 years ago, this is now.

I asked executive director Larry Lasher from the Holocaust Museum for a meeting with Mel Sembler when I was in Italy in August..................guess what? No meeting. We're just a bunch of scum in their minds. But we are not done yet. We re-trenched, refocused, and now we are going forward.

America and her servants are not "a big waste of time"

Sembler is "OUR" representative in Italy!

This can't and won't stand.

United we stand divided we fall.

Take care Joey, Hope you can make it to the conference. Glad to hear your life is going well!! I can't wait to meet all of you in person!!



[ This Message was edited by: Maltese Falcon on 2003-01-15 19:21 ]

[Tampa survivor]

Dragnet....
I studied pol-sci and damned near went to law school, but picked a different career altogether.  I have NO doubt whatsoever that I would make a great attorney.
I also spell for absolute shit, and when the brain is firing fast, I couldn't care less about apostropy placement.  That's what secrataries and Word 2000 are for.
Take fuelaws name, feed it into the Bar website, and voilla.
Not so hard eh?
Bill

[Maltese Falcon]

"Your a pathetic loser !!!!!"

Did Stetson Law school teach you that?

"Put your money where your mouth or keyboard is. How much you willing to bet on your last post ?"

Now that's a professional statement.

What are you so angry for FUE. What was said that was incorrect by Serpico? You keep dancing around the issue!

ARE YOU AN ATTORNEY? IF SO PROVE IT!

What are you afraid of?





[ This Message was edited by: Maltese Falcon on 2003-01-15 19:19 ]