secrecy and annonymousness here

[Anonymous]

I know why I cant say who I am because of legal reasons but i don't understand why some girls who have graduated mms years ago dont what to say who they are, why?

[BarnardlyB]

Legal reasons?? Are you someone important or are you raging war on the school. If it is for legal reason, I would suggest not posting at all.

I guess alot of us alumni, many that I know have come to this site, have seen the reaction to many posts people have written and have decided against posting.
They feel this website is hateful and not helpful in anyway. Some have posted once or twice and that was the end of that.
Why put yourself out there to be ridiculed and judged, looked down upon and talked down to, if you don't have to. Why take the risk of being belittled (like many of you talk about having happened to you at MMS)  by the girls who once supported you and loved you?? Its the same type of judgement and treatment you ALL express having happened to you at MMS....why repeat it. Isn't this supposed to be a supportive forum??

[Anonymous]

On 2006-05-31 17:44:00, BarnardlyB wrote:

"Legal reasons?? Are you someone important or are you raging war on the school. If it is for legal reason, I would suggest not posting at all.



I guess alot of us alumni, many that I know have come to this site, have seen the reaction to many posts people have written and have decided against posting.

They feel this website is hateful and not helpful in anyway. Some have posted once or twice and that was the end of that.

Why put yourself out there to be ridiculed and judged, looked down upon and talked down to, if you don't have to. Why take the risk of being belittled (like many of you talk about having happened to you at MMS)  by the girls who once supported you and loved you?? Its the same type of judgement and treatment you ALL express having happened to you at MMS....why repeat it. Isn't this supposed to be a supportive forum??
"

even if its been a long time for me i dont like to revela myself because the truth is i feel very torn.  i know the school hurt me and it hurt some of the girls i was closest to.  at the same time i feel guilty and its true that i dont want to be belitted.  being honest makes me too vulnerable and i see that girls here can be so cruel.  Even saying things like move on makes me feel wrong and like I have no right to feel what I feel or stand up for girls who have been hurt and are being hurt because they were forced to live at MMS.   I can understand the legislation and how it can help and I told the Dr from ASTART my story because of my belief.  I would like to be more open here but its like I said that I think that so many people keep saying move on that it just makes me feel like some girls want to bury the bad stuff.  there is no sympathy for someone like me who thinks mms was a very bad place even if it has good points because it really pretends to be something that it isn?t, a therapeutic place when basically it s like a jail or reform school or something that is the power of force and punishment for change not therapy.

[Anonymous]

On 2006-05-31 17:44:00, BarnardlyB wrote:

"Legal reasons?? Are you someone important or are you raging war on the school. If it is for legal reason, I would suggest not posting at all.


<

id like to think i'm someone important!!  :em:  

raging war like like with violence?? No WAy!  Im not into violence, thats weird.

Legal like becuz of confidential legal issues  but i dont think anyone else is in this position so I thinkits weird that people are so secretive dont you think?

[BarnardlyB]

"id like to think i'm someone important!!"
 :em:  
I didn't mean that in a mean way. I thought maybe youd be a name that is like a sentor or something!!!!

"Legal like becuz of confidential legal issues  but i dont think anyone else is in this position so I thinkits weird that people are so secretive dont you think? "
I do agree with you that is odd people are so secretive. I do understand when it comes to some of the older, older students becsue only very few of us would know them.

If this is who I think it Is CM. Once again. I want to once again, aplogize for anything that I did to you that still haunts you today. I hate the idea of you being in pain because of me. I am very differnet today than who I was back then.
I still love you, always did, you were one of the girls who i admired and truely thought is beautiful.

[Anonymous]

Nobody is waging a legal battle against the school. There have been people who tried. The bottom line is that there really is not a good legal argument. I don't know, I give up totally either way.

I feel as if it doesnt really matter if we all believe exactly the same about MMS. I had my bad times. I had my good times. There were some things they probably should not have done.

Im 30 years old. I also have accomplished a lot in my life and been through a massive amount. Sure, most of it was heaped on by myself, compounded by being at the school, left unmedicated and then I drank. Back then they didnt know about Bi Polar and my parents were against medication of any kind. Maybe we should sue our parents?

I am not too hard on myself either. For somebody who was un-medicated and bi-polar with schizophrenic tendencies that drank, I did ok.

I finished college. I had a family, my son Jonah is 3 1/2. Until the last couple of years my life has been a roller coaster of hidden emotions. It was easy to point it all at the school. Im sure there are things I am angry at MMS about, but those don't matter. It also doesnt help to post on here anymore.

I posted some things about CPS and I get this angry response back about "my beliefs" are not facts and that I should call them myself. Well, I am definately not making a phone call to an agency like CPS.

There are no facts in law and policy. They can use discretion when and where they like.CPS is administative law, it is also different state to state, you couldnt possibly expect to give you anything other than what I think is probably true. Administrative law is the most diverse and extensive area of law because it is so different everywhere. If you used that same tone with them I am sure you got the rubber stamp answer equating to a big ole, " fuck you".

I am going to say it again that I think there are too many people that are trying to herd everyone in one direction on this thing without any real answers. Meaning, I think people are voicing their opinion about what happened but I do NOT see anyone posting anything proactive. You talk about changing the school. Tell me clearly what you have done? Are you asking for government aid to fund some sort of counseling program to help? Are you personally writing letters to your state representative and asking for support? What is it that you are doing besides making yourself feel better?

Sorry this is not directed at anyone personally or in any way saying that the school was right. At the same time, go out and find out the students at the school and contact their families. It is the parents choice what school their child attends. It is the parents choice. Later the kid can deal with their parents about it or sue the school. I didnt sue, my parents didnt sue, I dont have a regret either.

Do any of you know how hard it is to sue a school? Well, you can sue anyone, but I mean to sue and win? It is really, really, hard.

To see people sit on here and bitch about the school, bitch about their parents, bitch about not getting the proper help finding answers, bitch about EVERYTHING. It makes it impossible to help or want to help or be a part of anything on here

[katfish]

On 2006-06-18 09:53:00, Anonymous wrote:





I posted some things about CPS and I get this angry response back about "my beliefs" are not facts and that I should call them myself. Well, I am definately not making a phone call to an agency like CPS.



There are no facts in law and policy. They can use discretion when and where they like.CPS is administative law, it is also different state to state, you couldnt possibly expect to give you anything other than what I think is probably true. Administrative law is the most diverse and extensive area of law because it is so different everywhere. If you used that same tone with them I am sure you got the rubber stamp answer equating to a big ole, " fuck you".

This doesn't make all that much sense to me, to be honest.  CPS policy does vary from state to state, but certain policy is not descretionary, er, it's their policy and they follow certain protocol.  Private unregulated facilities are handled diffrently- presumably by facts this is what 'factually' is the case until a change in policy occurs.  I don't see how that policy can/will change unless laws are in place to regulate.  Why wouldn't you call to ask what their policy is so that you are able to verify what appears to be some confusion on your part?  I hear you speculated, but not bothering to verify and I'm unsure why.  

 Tell me clearly what you have done? Are you asking for government aid to fund some sort of counseling program to help? Are you personally writing letters to your state representative and asking for support? What is it that you are doing besides making yourself feel better?

I've written just about everyone I can think of, presented at numerous conferences- most recently at a Children's Mental Health Conference at University of South Florida, am scheduled to present at conferences in the near future, working with A START. I have handed out flyers educating the public, called my state representatives, met with Representative Stark- co-sponsor of End Institutionalized Child Abuse Act of 2005, started a petition in support of EICA and started CAFETY- an organization that deals with this issue with other like minded young people- and indeed made myself feel much better about myself in the process.  

Sorry this is not directed at anyone personally or in any way saying that the school was right. At the same time, go out and find out the students at the school and contact their families. It is the parents choice what school their child attends. It is the parents choice. Later the kid can deal with their parents about it or sue the school. I didnt sue, my parents didnt sue, I dont have a regret either.

Sure, this is true, but parents are not always informed or can be mislead.  Same with ed cons.  I'm not sure about the suing part, I think that if individuals felt harmed by a porgram that is unregualted and where they were mistreated, or 'treated' in a way that is not consistent with what is acceptable in the mental health field then I think that is an option that makes sense.  Obtaining a sense that justice has been done is not at all irrational.

It makes it impossible to help or want to help or be a part of anything on here"

It makes it impossible for you to want to help?
I wouldn't be so quick to assume everyone feels that same way, I have personally been in contact with numerous individuals who are willing to act based on this forum.  If you're feeling less inclines then... I'm kind of indifferent to that
- not to be antagonistical here, but I think the purpose of this forum is to vent, not to cater to you're emotions.  

So, I guess that's ok... not sure anyone is trying to convince anyone who doesn't feel inclined to help to help, especially if that particular individual is not particularly inclined to act on a sense of outrage (which may or may not exist)independently of what it said or not said on this forum. I dont' understand why this would be at all relevant.

My take on this is that their are people who have a sense of moral obligation to act and those that don't for whatever reason-- then their are those that do but don't have a clear path to action, but remain willing to take the initiative via their own sense of agency by acting on that sense of personal responsibility and educating themselves.  Those are the people to reach out to. I think it's a waste of energy to reach out to most anyone else.  To me it sounds as if you've made up your mind... I'm guessing here.  I'm guessing for htat reason you have not done much surrounding this issue?

[Anonymous]

On 2006-06-18 09:53:00, Anonymous wrote:

 there really is not a good legal argument. I don't know, I give up totally either way.



Sorry this is not directed at anyone personally or in any way saying that the school was right. At the same time, go out and find out the students at the school and contact their families. It is the parents choice what school their child attends. It is the parents choice. Later the kid can deal with their parents about it or sue the school. I didnt sue, my parents didnt sue, I dont have a regret either.

i totally aggree with Cat.  I have written my congressman too, but Ihaven't done as much as she has yet.  Maybe not enough about that is posted here but theres a network of students outside of here that suport each other. its hard to do it here because of the  people who dont agree with our experiences so instead of suppot we have to defend. its all good though. like its been said if you dont want to do something what happens here or doesnt happen wont change that.  i cant take that responsibilty on i htink its kind of silly to evenn post that.  the whole post actually sounds really off to me, i wont go word for word but i dont understand why no facts will be obtained, why you assume that someone was angry when they called  here i'm talking about cps. and i guess we can be angry at our parents but isnt it the role of the state ot protect rights even when others cant.  the entire post makes no sense to me at all.  not one bit.  just no getting what your point is and how that point is even made because it just make no sense like your powerless and blame everyone for bitching like we cant or like we dont do anything more when you dont even know us and we dont know you.

[Anonymous]

i forgot about legal argument. i think I want you to know someones case and situation before saying this, like i say you dont make any sense,  you can never make this call especaily since you are not an attorney and dont know the law,  you dont know what case someone may have against the school, you might no ave a case but  group of students might,  a group of recent studetns might and im sure we can get them good attorneys if tehy find the courage, some girls actualy do have balls   :rofl:

i know some attorneys at Bazilon the mental law that working with you, cat and i bet they would be on it like flies on shit or they know of someone.  they know places in MT there is many problems and it would be good to get Montana on this. PLUS! the CAFety newslesster sent me this a few weeks ago on  ABA- they are  upset about places like MMS so this is no joke. LOl seriously if someone has a good case thats new you for real you beleive no one will get on this??  i doubt they
 wouldn't! this is the next step for crying out loud!  this is great for rights of children and its what people are really thinking and talking about !  

http://cafety.org/index.php?option=com_ ... &Itemid=35

Recognizing the breadth of issues affecting America?s teenagers, the planning of this initiative has focused on six very important substantive legal areas related to youth at risk.

3.  Enhancing Teen Access to Safe and Appropriate Prevention and Treatment Services.  Teens with emotional and behavioral problems must have better access to community-based mental health services and other programs that can help prevent their involvement with juvenile and criminal systems.  Because girls are entering the juvenile justice system in greater numbers, some expanded services must be gender-specific.  There are also family economic issues that must be addressed.  Parents without means often turn to the government or the courts for help in placing a severely-troubled youth, often relinquishing custody of the youth to the state.  Other families, of means, may pay large sums of money for placements of teens in private unregulated ?therapeutic? residential facilities that may harm youth.  Lawyers should examine how law, policy, and enhanced legal representation can help assure youth have better access to services and aid to prevent their unnecessary placement in facilities that may injure them.

Support Changes in Law and Policy to Promote Positive Teen Outcomes

5. Prohibit operation of unlicensed, unregulated residential treatment facilities that operate programs whose efficacy has not been proven empirically, such as boot camps, tough love, and ?scared straight? programs, and require the closing of such facilities.  The law should provide for such facilities to be replaced with: better access to preventative services, with a focus on family involvement and community-based resources, wherever possible; and carefully regulated ?residential treatment facilities? that are reserved for youth whose dangerous behavior cannot be controlled except in a secure setting.

http://www.abanet.org/child/youthatrisk/home.shtml

[Anonymous]

Announcing the 2006-07 American Bar Association Presidential Initiative for Youth at Risk
About the Initiative

Our nation's future is in the hands of today's youth, our most important asset. During the next bar year (2006-07), the American Bar Association will focus its resources on at-risk teens and a number of the legal issues that affect them.

Focuses of this initiative of 2006-07 ABA President Karen Mathis will be teenagers (13-19), and include:

POSTED ABOVE


the president of ABA is on this to CLOSE DOWN unregulatated places. can you beleive?

[Anonymous]

Ok sure let me help but you cannot bite my head off just because I am not 'throwin' myself in the middle of things.

Give me something concrete to do

[Anonymous]

The other thing to think about is this;

If you only get each person riled up and nobody is organzied how can you accomplish anything?

Power comes in numbers because it is easy to shut down 25 angry people seperately than it is to shut them down as a group.

Have you done anything to plan, organize, and take group action?

Im not being a bitch I am just saying the way that you are trying to get things done can be done better.

The reason I wont call CPS is because I am sure you have already done it already, I dont want to be just another person that ties up their line. Its easy to fuck yourself in a situation like that if you make them mad

[Anonymous]

damnit my last name hasnt been Matheson for a long time

[katfish]

On 2006-06-19 01:53:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Ok sure let me help but you cannot bite my head off just because I am not 'throwin' myself in the middle of things.



Give me something concrete to do"

Hey Sarah,

I recommend that you contact your Rep. in support of EICA.  If you want to help out beyond that we have several areas of focus.
Due to the time constraints of our core CAFETY group, which has only been recently formed, we?re still working on some developmental stuff.  We have a psychiatrist on our advisory board and are working on expansion of this group.

I also recommend you e-mail your story to Dr. Allison Pinto of USF who will be submitting them to Congress.  Just see the ?take action? section on CAFETY, her contact info is there.  There are also other Congressman who may be helpful to contact- thought most only involve themselves in issue involving their constituents., but I think every little bit helps.  There's also an A START sign on letter and a petition I began, I would sign both.  If you want to do anything more, I  say reach out to others in forums, organizations concerned with the issue, people in your community, print out some CAFTEY flyer and hand them out...  Public awareness is critical.  

I?ve also been working on a survey for alumni that will soon be coming out with Dr. Pinto, that will also be something you can do.

I don?t think you?re being a b?ch, there is considerable trepidation in your words, so much so that I just don?t understand what you?re driving at as it seems a bit presumptious- you have made an assessment of a situation without knowing anything about what anyone has done, is doing, or researching this issue in any comprehensive way.  It?s difficult to do alone, of course, I wouldn?t know half of what I know if I didn?t work closely with Mental Health Professional/policy experts as part of A START.  That said, it comes across as just? oh, I don?t know, sabotage of sorts, I guess you could say.

I'm not going to bite your head off one way or the other, whether or not you do anything is none of my business- it doesn't make much of a difference to me to be quite honest, it's all about your moral positioning far as I can tell. Man power is great, but you can't really be an asset without some effort which takes dedication and committment, even if fleeting.


yes, I've spoken to CPS, this was long ago.  I was in a  bad place, didn't follow up- but got my info on the their policy from a researcher studying the issue.  I wouldn't worry about calling them though, I never got the impression they were busy.  In fact, they're quite friendly and helpful!  It strikes me as odd that you would not want to suspend disbelief for a moment and find out for yourself, but to each his own I guess.  

Best- kat

[Anonymous]

.. and where are you going to send this survey? What purpose does it have? Is it for research?

I e mailed you. Other than that this doesnt look very planned out as far as making new laws. First you have to get public officials on board, that means sitting down with someone that makes a difference in MONTANA, not tampa and not NY. Sure it helps to have names on board with you but you have to start in Montana.

I would suggest taking Judicial Process