Vulcan Challenge - Fire Element

[Anonymous]

when i was there, the purpose of a vulcan challenge was to force you to come out of your "shell".
for part of mine, i had to write a song on the guitar and basically make an asshole of myself because my counselors knew damn well that at the time, i couldnt even play a note right. honestly, i dont even remember the other part. oh well. shows how much benefit it did me. other kids in my peer group had to sing and dance and basically make mockeries of themselves for the entertainment of the counselors. although i didnt see anything particularly traumatizing occur, but then again, for all i know it did, i slept during every other pgs vulcan challenge, i do know that what i got out of these "challenges" was that the staff had a good laugh at the kids and there was no fucking theraputic value in singing and dancing to "tears of a clown". this place is ridiculous.


dan pg26

[Lacey]

Hehe. I had to dance with ribbon dancers dressed in all white to the song "True Colors". It was frickin hilarious.

[Deborah]

What did either of you think at the time, the purpose of this 'therapeutic' activity was?
Sounds like a mandatory talent show and someone else picks your activity?
'Forced' seems to be the key word, and how do you 'force' someone out of their shell?
How could it have been more fun and more effect, if at all?

[Lacey]

Well, first off its not supposed to be fun for anyone but the spectators. The reason behind my "challenge" was because I used to be like, a "goth" or whatever when I was like 13. And they thought that the way to get me out of that mindset was to make me dress in all white and play with rainbow streamers in front of the student body. In reality, the goth crap was just a phase I went thru in early HS years and had absolutely nothing to do with why I was sent away. I mean all kids go thru wierd phases with the way they dress and act. But they focused on that as my main issue. So that was their reasoning for my challenge. There were 2 others (everyone gets 3 challenges) but I cant remember what they were.

[Anonymous]

it is s shame but there are probably no staff there who even know what the vulcan challenge was meant to do especially if they come up with a traumatizing idea like this..i am disgusted reading about it.  i am a former staff who left during one of HLA's famous purges but i can tell you that a vulcan challenge could be a good one if it was created right.  the "performance" of the challenge had little to do with it.  the challenge came form the moment they were told what they were going to do.  it should be creative and open ended so they students can be creative.  having a young girl sing i feel pretty and dance to it after spending years and years under that insecurity was not a bad...though many of you will tear it apart, but how she handled it with grace even though she wanted to run was wonderful to watch.  she came up to after and said she had never had a chance to dance before and her confidence was so much stronger now.  HLA does not have the staff who understands the meaning of what they are teaching if they are doing horrific things and it is a shame because it could be good.

[AtomicAnt]

On 2006-06-05 15:03:00, Anonymous wrote:

"it is s shame but there are probably no staff there who even know what the vulcan challenge was meant to do especially if they come up with a traumatizing idea like this..i am disgusted reading about it.  i am a former staff who left during one of HLA's famous purges but i can tell you that a vulcan challenge could be a good one if it was created right.  the "performance" of the challenge had little to do with it.  the challenge came form the moment they were told what they were going to do.  it should be creative and open ended so they students can be creative.  having a young girl sing i feel pretty and dance to it after spending years and years under that insecurity was not a bad...though many of you will tear it apart, but how she handled it with grace even though she wanted to run was wonderful to watch.  she came up to after and said she had never had a chance to dance before and her confidence was so much stronger now.  HLA does not have the staff who understands the meaning of what they are teaching if they are doing horrific things and it is a shame because it could be good. "

And I will tear it apart. Forcing such a performance on a shy person could easily be far more humiliating and traumatizing than helpful. In fact, I can't imagine it ever being any kind of real 'therapy.' No one should ever be forced to mock themselves. That's just cruel. This is just one more example of a program having absolutely no idea what they are doing.

[RobertBruce]

On 2006-06-01 16:37:00, Deborah wrote:

"

What did either of you think at the time, the purpose of this 'therapeutic' activity was?

Sounds like a mandatory talent show and someone else picks your activity?

'Forced' seems to be the key word, and how do you 'force' someone out of their shell?

How could it have been more fun and more effect, if at all?"

FUnny thats exactly what it was. No benefit whatsoever. Then again what at HLA does?

[Anonymous]

On 2006-06-05 19:47:00, AtomicAnt wrote:

"

On 2006-06-05 15:03:00, Anonymous wrote:


"it is s shame but there are probably no staff there who even know what the vulcan challenge was meant to do especially if they come up with a traumatizing idea like this..i am disgusted reading about it.  i am a former staff who left during one of HLA's famous purges but i can tell you that a vulcan challenge could be a good one if it was created right.  the "performance" of the challenge had little to do with it.  the challenge came form the moment they were told what they were going to do.  it should be creative and open ended so they students can be creative.  having a young girl sing i feel pretty and dance to it after spending years and years under that insecurity was not a bad...though many of you will tear it apart, but how she handled it with grace even though she wanted to run was wonderful to watch.  she came up to after and said she had never had a chance to dance before and her confidence was so much stronger now.  HLA does not have the staff who understands the meaning of what they are teaching if they are doing horrific things and it is a shame because it could be good. "

And I will tear it apart. Forcing such a performance on a shy person could easily be far more humiliating and traumatizing than helpful. In fact, I can't imagine it ever being any kind of real 'therapy.' No one should ever be forced to mock themselves. That's just cruel. This is just one more example of a program having absolutely no idea what they are doing."

There can be danger in any kind of therapy if the therapist does not know what they are doing.  I was there for the girl that was given this challenge to sing "I feel pretty".  It was a very positive experience for her.  Was she scared and nervous at first? Yes.  But, she overcame her insecurities with the help of sensitive and capable counselors and a very supportive Peer Group.  She ended up gaining a lot of confidence through the experience.  I do see the other side of that, however.  Given a counselor who does not know what they are doing, it could be a damaging experience.  That is why it is so important for schools like this to employ effective, licensed counselors.

[AtomicAnt]

There can be danger in any kind of therapy if the therapist does not know what they are doing. I was there for the girl that was given this challenge to sing "I feel pretty". It was a very positive experience for her. Was she scared and nervous at first? Yes. But, she overcame her insecurities with the help of sensitive and capable counselors and a very supportive Peer Group. She ended up gaining a lot of confidence through the experience. I do see the other side of that, however. Given a counselor who does not know what they are doing, it could be a damaging experience. That is why it is so important for schools like this to employ effective, licensed counselors.

I'm not buying it. I get very suspicious of program speak. Did she overcome her insecurities, or was she forced to do this? Could she have declined participation without any repercussions?

And, who is to say this really worked or just appeared to help? I have been through a few of these types of exercises, and thought they were helpful at the time, but after (weeks, months, years) reflection were pretty useless and downright silly.

[Anonymous]

"I'm not buying it. I get very suspicious of program speak. Did she overcome her insecurities, or was she forced to do this? Could she have declined participation without any repercussions?

And, who is to say this really worked or just appeared to help? I have been through a few of these types of exercises, and thought they were helpful at the time, but after (weeks, months, years) reflection were pretty useless and downright silly."

The same can be said for any kind of therapy.  How much it is internalized and affects someone for the positive is largely up to the individual.  My point is that this individual was certainly not damaged through this experience and it made her look at herself differently for a while.  Whether or not she chose to continue looking at herself in a more positive way years later is her decision and will certainly be affected by other life experiences and decisions she makes.  Again, I do see how an exercise like this, or any other therapeutic exercise, can be harmful when facilitated by an inexperienced and unskilled therapist.

Fixed quote tag...[ This Message was edited by: Deborah on 2006-06-10 20:48 ]

[Anonymous]

The same can be said for any kind of therapy.  How much it is internalized and affects someone for the positive is largely up to the individual.  My point is that this individual was certainly not damaged through this experience and it made her look at herself differently for a while.  Whether or not she chose to continue looking at herself in a more positive way years later is her decision and will certainly be affected by other life experiences and decisions she makes.  Again, I do see how an exercise like this, or any other therapeutic exercise, can be harmful when facilitated by an inexperienced and unskilled therapist."

Take a look at your last statement and then think about all the turnover lately at HLA.  The undertrained, inexperienced, unskilled transients going thru that place are in charge of facilitating these intensely personal and highly subjective and suggestive sessions all done in front of a group of other kids.  Recipe for disaster.

[Troll Control]

Again, I do see how an exercise like this, or any other therapeutic exercise, can be harmful when facilitated by an inexperienced and unskilled therapist.

HLA has only a single licensed counselor.  I can't see how any of their other personnel can be viewed as "therapists."  Most don't even have a mental health-related degree.  

Therefore, this type of "therapy" (I disagree wholeheartedly with your assessment, but that's a different issue) should never be practiced at HLA, as every single counselor (save for one) is not educated or qualified to perform therapy of any kind, would you not agree?

[Deborah]

As frequently happens, this discussion has moved from a girl who was forced to stand before her peers and recount the details of a rape?. To a girl who sang i feel pretty and danced to it.

The original poster wrote:
I was told of a girl who,  for her "Vulcan Challenge," was assigned by the
counselors to stand up in front of the entire student body and recount, in detail, being raped. Rape victims are sometimes not required to testify in open court, yet this poor girl was forced to relive this horrific event in front of everyone. Therapeutic? I don't think so. How is this benefitting this girl? "tell us your
'issues' and we'll violate your confidence and further traumatize you."


It?s not like these kids are playing charades with a group of caring friends, or divulging their deepest wounds to a trusted friend.  
Who decides what the ?issue? is and presents the challenge?
Who makes the assessment that the kid is stable enough to divulge intimate details of a rape or any other abuse, or ready to challenge a long standing fear or insecurity?
Is it a requirement or a dare?
What happens if they refuse?
What happens if they crash and burn, and more humiliation is heaped on what already exsisted?

A therapist can challenge- encourage and support- a client to ride a roller coaster in hopes of helping him overcome his fear, but they can?t ?force? him. Kids in programs aren?t given this consideration. Why?
Is there research to support this ?therapy? or is it more of Wasserman?s ?experimental?, confrontational therapy like the infamous Profeets?

http://www.heal-online.org/cedu.htm
once in a profeet they made a black boy wash Michaels feet. Michael thought he was like God , he  called him the N word while this person washed his feet.  They would accuse the boys of performing beastility acts on the animals, I dont know for fact if that happened but I was told  it did as a punishement for the boys.    I was blamed for my mother's death.  I actually grew up after that believing that my actions as a Teen caused her to die, when in all reality, I was acting out because when I was 5yrs old, i was in a foster home, and was molested continually.  I never said anything, until it was too late. We would remain in these Profeets until everyone snapped and I never recall any food in there, we did get bathroom breaks and water breaks.

To the ex HLA counselor posting- what genre of therapy does this "exercise" come from? What were you taught in college about forcing patients to divulge sensitive material in front of their peers? How were you trained by HLA?

[Anonymous]

I am the ex-counselor that has been posting.  I whole heartedly agree that forcing a kid to detail the accounts of her rape is wrong and offers no benefit to the child.  I am amazed if a child was forced to do this.  I also agree that the counselors at HLA need to be better trained.  I do not think the have to all be licensed, because you have to be in the field for three years before you get your license.  What does need to happen is that HLA needs to have several licensed staff that are giving direct day to day supervision of the non-licensed staff.  Currently, HLA has one person doing the supervision of all their counselors.  That is an impossible situation and a detriment to the kids.  Dr. Buccellato will never put forth the money that it would take to properly supervise all of the counselors at HLA.

[Dr Fucktard]

To hell with all of that licensing crap -- that's for eggheads and "professionals". Professional help, my ASS! :roll:

You want to get a kid straight? Make him face his peers; they are the only ones who will be tough on him! After all, "you can't con a con" as they say.
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