Level System

[Badpuppy]

You might consider getting a better lawyer. Mr. DJ is 100% correct in what he is telling you. If it were my kid I'd rather have him go to the CA Youth authority than a WWASP program. WWASP programs are systmatic brutalization with the added liability of harmful therapies like rebirthing, emotionaly cathartic therapies, LGAT's which in the mental helth community are considered in the same breath as say Alien Abduction Therapy.

There should be no reason why your attorney and your paid expert witnesses, mental health experts, cannot come up with an accpetable alternative,other than incarceration anyplace, particularly since you are going willing to pay for it. The DA may go for one to three but judges also consider the cost and the amount of places that are available.

You are a little hard on therapy. Try to think of it not so much as what you did was wrong, but how I can make the communication between me and my son better. If nothing less than incarceration for a year or more will do for this judge there are programs that are a lot easier time to do than a dispicable WWASP program. But understand that programs are just about doing easier time. Residential treatment is therapuitically ineffective and possibly harmful according to the US government. So it is about finding the least damaging program. Involve your son in the decision process. It is his life, he needs to have some responsibity for the choices. Be good

[Worried Dad]

On 2006-05-03 21:05:00, Three Springs Waygookin wrote:

"How the hell a kid gonna get 3 years for ripping off a pickle jar full of change?



What else is on his rap sheet?



Sounds to me like you ought to spend your money on a better lawyer.
...



I would strongly suggest going to the judge and finding out exactly where your boy is going to be doing time, or if there is some alternative that can be found.
...

The only other thing on his rap sheet is truancy citations.  The DA is basing their decision on his school record mainly.  They have some theory that if kids aren't doing good in school, that they'll be future criminals.  The theory is to keep it from happening while they're young.  Plus my lawyer said there were other tip jars taken in town so they want to make an example out of my kid for it.  Like I said though they let a caucasian kid that was with him off with a lesser charge even though he's clearly doing poorly in school.

The judge may give him a lesser sentence yes, but he might not either.  I'm fully expecting my kid to get at least a year.  He'll have a felony conviction on his record too.  Hopefully that can be removed when he's older.

I suppose I can ask the judge about alternatives.  I'm not going to hold my breath though.

[Sylvia]

Worried Dad:

This sucks!  Especially that the caucasian kid got a lesser charge.

If your son gets a felony conviction, he can get it overturned/erased if he stays on the straight and narrow after this.

I share your realistically powerless view about what an individual can do to protect his/her offspring from the various vagaries of the court sytem.

I think it might mean a lot to your son that you are trying to fight for him, however lost this particular cause might be.  A year in jail would truly be a horrible sentence for a $37 tip jar, but, I must agree, it all other arguments fail, jail is better than WWASPS.  At least you'll get to see him, he can attend some classes if he chooses to.  It's up to him whether he picks up worse habits, you can't control that.

You have my sympathy and I also think you are brave for coming on here, smart for checking it out, and even smarter for absorbing the message despite wincing at the delivery.

[Anonymous]

On 2006-05-03 20:36:00, Worried Dad wrote:

"

On 2006-05-03 20:20:00, Anonymous wrote:


"Worried Dad, Horizon Academy is NOT accredited. The link you posted leads to a list of programs/schools "accredited" by the Northwest Accreditation organization. Anyone who wants to get accredited by them has to pay a fee and be "reviewed" by a "team of peers"-- in WWASPS's case, their own executives. There is no REAL accrediting going on.





Read more here:


http://www.isaccorp.org"

Yes that's what I was afraid of, thanks.  It sounds a lot like the "Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval."  It just means they paid for it."

Look closer, Dad. This is the accrediting body that accredits ALL of the public schools in several states. All accrediting agencies charge a fee, and all include a peer review. The one conducted by NAAS is quite extensive, and includes a week-long campus visit. The "peers" are academic professionals.

Our school is accredited by NAAS, and our credits are accepted at every school and college in the country. Don't believe me. Look into NAAS and consider calling them for more information.

[Badpuppy]

If there is no way that the judge will go for a sentence other than incarceration check out this Tyler Ranch in Oragon. THIS IS IN NO WAY AN ENDORSEMENT OF THAT PROGRAM OR PROGRAMS IN GENERAL. This comes under the heading of mitigation of damages. There are a couple of superficial facts that make me think this program might be less harmful than most. This program at least allows your kid to go to a normal public school. So of his sixteen waking hours 8 of them are spent with normal kids. If there was some horrible abuse, kids could tell a school counselor or split. It is run by a nonprofit agency so there is little more accountability. If they take in state placements they certainly would be subject to some sort of state oversight. Not that it is any great protection. Apparantly they don't force kids to open up. Therapy in that setting is usually ineffective because kids are captive,and to get out,they learn to say what the therapist wants to hear. It doesn't appear to be an "emotional growth school" so there is a reasonable chance it is a traditional type of therapy, not whacky like rebirthing, beating a towel against the floor while screaming at picture of relatives, or your son. This place also takes kids in from 6 to 18, which means that your kid is going to be one of the bigger ones, less likely he is going to be physically intimidated. Of course there are always minimum wage poorly trained houseparents, and an overabundance of chores, but the kid is likely to survive with his body and soul intact. I don't know this place or have any affiliation of any kind with it. I suggest it only in the sense of your kid mabbe doing some easier time if he has to be incarcerated someplace. A pragmatic lesser of the evils. Of course mabbe the place is the worst shithole on earth. Just a place to research. Pick up the book "Help At Any Cost"

[Anonymous]

Our school is accredited by NAAS, and our credits are accepted at every school and college in the country. Don't believe me. Look into NAAS and consider calling them for more information.

Yeah I don't believe you because I had to retake several classes in California to be entered into Community College! You are a shill and a liar for your employer, you couldn't be anymore obvious!

[Anonymous]

Our school is accredited by NAAS, and our credits are accepted at every school and college in the country. Don't believe me. Look into NAAS and consider calling them for more information.

Your school might be accredited by NAAS-- but it is also accredited by your regional accreditation board, which is the only accreditation that counts. WWASPS "schools" have no regional accreditation-- just NAAS. So, no, they're not accredited.

[Troll Control]

Our school is accredited by NAAS, and our credits are accepted at every school and college in the country. Don't believe me. Look into NAAS and consider calling them for more information.

This is a huge and provable lie.  NAAS is a JOKE and any WWASPS diploma is garbage on its face.  Ask any kid who was barred from college entry.  There are many of them.

[Anonymous]

I had to take several courses in college to catch me up because my Browning Academy education paled in comparison to the other freshman, who'd attended schools where the teachers taught.  I was unprepared for the content of college courses and to be able to pass mandatory entrance exams to begin at 101 level courses.  So, I paid for beginner courses to basically redo what WWASP claimed they'd taught me and that I received As in.

[Anonymous]

On 2006-05-04 01:07:00, Worried Dad wrote:

"

On 2006-05-03 21:05:00, Three Springs Waygookin wrote:


"How the hell a kid gonna get 3 years for ripping off a pickle jar full of change?





What else is on his rap sheet?





Sounds to me like you ought to spend your money on a better lawyer.

...





I would strongly suggest going to the judge and finding out exactly where your boy is going to be doing time, or if there is some alternative that can be found.

...

The only other thing on his rap sheet is truancy citations.  The DA is basing their decision on his school record mainly.  They have some theory that if kids aren't doing good in school, that they'll be future criminals.  The theory is to keep it from happening while they're young.  Plus my lawyer said there were other tip jars taken in town so they want to make an example out of my kid for it.  Like I said though they let a caucasian kid that was with him off with a lesser charge even though he's clearly doing poorly in school.



The judge may give him a lesser sentence yes, but he might not either.  I'm fully expecting my kid to get at least a year.  He'll have a felony conviction on his record too.  Hopefully that can be removed when he's older.



I suppose I can ask the judge about alternatives.  I'm not going to hold my breath though.  "

Dad, unless your kid threatened someone with a weapon to get that tip jar, there is no way they can convict him of a felony.  $37 is petty theft.

Get a better lawyer.

They let a white kid off for the same thing?  It's called selective enforcement and it's a no-no.  Call the NAACP or the SPLC and get a referral to a *much* better lawyer.

Do Not Take This Crap.

Also, juvenile records get sealed.  Your kid can not have an adult felony record for a $37 juvenile petty theft.

You need a better lawyer, because the DA is figuratively doing the Abner Louima dance on your butt.

Get a lawyer who (if all else fails) will not balk at calling the press and raising holy hell that a non-white kid is getting a year or more and a felony over $37 and a white kid is getting nada.

We had a mother on here who was suffering the same kind of crap you are where the law had stuck her daughter in a boot camp over something trivial and they were going to keep her for a long time, wouldn't say when she was coming home, the girl was sick and injured and they were taking her medicine away and ignoring doctors' orders.

We kept telling her to get a lawyer, get a lawyer.

She finally got a good lawyer and *BAM!* that garbage miraculously stopped.

Sometimes people who like to have control and power over other people get in positions of authority and abuse that power.

Your kid shouldn't have done what he did, but his wrong doesn't make it right for the DA to railroad your child into the system over petty theft as if he'd stolen a car or broken into someone's house and burgled a lot of expensive stuff.

You don't punish jaywalking with the penalties on the books for murder, and you don't punish petty theft with the penalties on the books for grand theft auto.

Get a lawyer.  Get a damned good lawyer.

Julie

[Nihilanthic]

On 2006-05-06 07:19:00, Three Springs Waygookin wrote:

"With the kind of case that kid is facing all you really need is a blind monkey to plea out the details with the right spin.

...to disarm the people (is) the best and most effective way to enslave them...
-- George Mason

"

My family was completely railroaded on a case with zero evidence and accusations that changed every time the 'victims' were interviewed.

NEVER underestimate the ability of a DA to "make a case" where there isnt one.

[Anonymous]

On 2006-05-06 15:10:00, Nihilanthic wrote:

"

On 2006-05-06 07:19:00, Three Springs Waygookin wrote:


"With the kind of case that kid is facing all you really need is a blind monkey to plea out the details with the right spin.

...to disarm the people (is) the best and most effective way to enslave them...
-- George Mason

"

My family was completely railroaded on a case with zero evidence and accusations that changed every time the 'victims' were interviewed.



NEVER underestimate the ability of a DA to "make a case" where there isnt one. "

Amen.

We saw a case in animal court where the owners of a rottie were railroaded because the judge hated the breed of dog.

Their dog had been chained in their yard when someone who they'd told to leave it alone came in the yard, teasing it, and got bitten.

Absolutely not their fault, under the laws of our state and county.

They had a witness (neighbor) who was home and watching and saw the whole thing.

The chick who got bit lied and said the dog was loose---but she didn't even show up to court.  The judge relied on the inadmissable hearsay testimony of the animal control officer about what the chick had said.

Zero admissable evidence, and they were not even allowed to call their witness on their behalf---they tried. Since the woman was not there, they were (obviously) not allowed to cross examine the witness against them.

They were innocent, and they got convicted because the judge hated rottweilers, and already had made up his mind that if you were an accused in his court, you were guilty.

We looked him up.  The judge's prior job was with the DA's office prosecuting habitual offenders.  But yeah, he's completely impartial.  Not.

Their constitutional rights were violated six ways from Sunday, and the judge felt absolutely confident in doing so because of ONE THING:


They didn't have a lawyer.


Get a lawyer.  Get a good lawyer.  If you have a lawyer and he isn't rubbing his hands and salivating over defending a client from a felony charge who only stole 37 dollars, then your lawyer sucks---get a better one.

It's the DA's job to get convictions and put people away, not to be fair.

It's the judge's job to be fair, but without a lawyer?  Fat chance.  The DA knows the judge.  If the DA thinks he can get away with murder with that judge--he probably can.

Also, there's an old saying:  A good lawyer knows the law.  A great lawyer knows the judge.

Julie
(If the people with the rottie had had a lawyer, the judge still *could* have done everything he did, but the lawyer would have appealed, and won.   And he also could have referred the judge for disciplinary action, which likely would have stuck.)

[Worried Dad]

Sorry I've dragged this thread so far off topic.

Another lawyer isn't going to help at this point.  Thank you for the advice though.  Well my son confessed to the crime so there's no doubt he's guilty.  That was my fault because I didn't believe they'd charge him with a felony for such a petty crime.  Also he's plead guilty already to get a deferred judgement against the DA's wishes.  If he straightens out the whole thing will be removed from his record.

I went to court with him on Friday expecting him to be tossed in jail for at least a year.  The judge gave him a stern warning instead.  We have to go back to court in a couple of months to see if he's improved.  The DA might be harsh, but the judge seemed to have some sense.  

I believe some people here are right that some time in jail might help him.  I'm just hoping it's not one to three years.

Anyway thank you for all the advice.  I'm still plugging along.

[Badpuppy]

The lawyer he had did just fine. This is the result I would have expected.

[Anonymous]

Sometimes there's a tendency to scare juvenile offenders and even their parents, because most of the time kids get probation and maybe community service or restitution.