Author Topic: interesting, whatcha think??  (Read 2173 times)

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Offline BarnardlyB

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interesting, whatcha think??
« on: March 28, 2006, 02:45:00 PM »
Okay Girls.......
Check it out.
You all hate MMS and you know what thats fine. If anything great, feel what you feel.
Yet why have a web site that is what I will call a mini MMS??
People who hate MMS are all in the what I will call "older girl group" the girls who have there shit together supposably....
and those of us who disagree are in the "newer student group" those of us who just don't get it yet.
We have our own opinions yet why jump on girls who feel strongly for the school, like you all feel strongly against the MMS. You give them harsh feed back and disregard them, in hopes they'll jump on the hate MMS wagon, and supposably yourr better then the school. Your so informed and all knowing and us little people should shut up and agree.
For people who hate the school so much you do a good job creating a mini one on the internet......good job.....

Okay girls bring it on....ill be suprized if you don't...... :razz:
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2006, 08:17:00 PM »
It appears from your grammar, and spelling your parents might have insisted on some basic educational classes while you were at the "fine school." Hopefully you are in school now.

This is not a fight, and no one needs to "bring it on."

Grow up!
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2006, 08:44:00 PM »
Im new to this site, just been reading and such.
From what Ive read it does seem like a fight.
Betsy has valid points, read old forums.  and anon, you write a response that can be assumed for a fight.....
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2006, 09:00:00 PM »
I do agree that these forms often do just turn into a "pissing contest." However I do not agree that this is a newer student/older student thing nor is it a good tudent/bad student thing. I am definitely a newer student and I have several issues with the school. I don't think that there is a certain classification.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2006, 09:40:00 PM »
I agree. No one is here to "fight." Each has their own opinion and viewpoints. Being confronted in such an immature manner does no good. Everyone should be able to express their views without intimidation.
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Offline BarnardlyB

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« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2006, 10:24:00 PM »
"Everyone should be able to express their views without intimidation. "

Thats my point. When someone dissagrees or fights the idea that MMS is a bad place....you girls jump on them and me esp, because im one of the girls that is loudest.
I have said many times that those of us who like MMS can understand and even agree with those who don't. Yet those who don't agree with MMS can't even imagine agreeing or seeing another side to the issue.

 "I do not agree that this is a newer student/older student thing nor is it a good tudent/bad student thing"

Neither do I , It was metaphoric. I was comparing how I felt at the school to how I feel about this site....its very similar.

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Two individuals dancing on our own two feet, & when were together...its beautiful[ This Message was edited by: BarnardlyB on 2006-03-28 19:28 ]
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2006, 02:35:00 AM »
Quote
On 2006-03-28 19:24:00, BarnardlyB wrote:



I have said many times that those of us who like MMS can understand and even agree with those who don't.


how can you like MMS and agree with our anger at being mistreated?

I don't ever see any justification for the use of terror in the way MMS used it, period.  If some girls didn't get it as bad as other and or weren't really effected by it they should be honest to then say what they end up indirectly saying about MMS when they say they 'like' it (as you put it), that they approve of mistreamtent under certain circumstances... or they should not attempt to redifine MMS and only talk about what they 'took' from the program (as if they had a chose in the matter) and not what they felt was harmful.

I have said countless of times that i knew I needed help...that I welcomed help and that MMS, given it's fear & shaming driven incetive based approach, harmed us all at some level. If its changed, then great, but that doesn't change the fact that Mercer, who heads the school is responsible for such mistreatmenta and may return to the school at any point at any time...this is frightening to me and is part of why being honest about the negative and not protecting the school by negating it is so important.  These are the lives of kids we're talking about and thye have a right to not feel as many of us did, even if you only witnessed if, or are only even now hearing about it...whatever

...to blanket say MMS saved me and totally being uncritical about it, not examining why so many others are stating the opposite and the significance of that... as if your success is even worth our own trauma...it is it is so easy to so quickly make this into a 'fight' and convince yourself that what we say is totally incomprehensibly and invalid when up against your assesment-

If you say you agree with MMS then you have to be clear what poinst you agree with- my life there or yours... we have to compare them- and then, given that perhaps you have witnessed or in hearing the numerous account of the damage done- do you agree with that, and just simply being fully honest... i think MMS critics can concede to certain 'benefits' but i have yet to hear an honest assesment from anyone pro of what the problems were...or at least, if at all, from maybe only one.

what keeps this stupid fire burning it seems is that lack of clarity on what we're talking about
with a real understanding of what those who take issue with the program are really saying and a true effort made to understand the urgency when we say John & the program has hurt girl and probably will and has continued to hurt girls--

it's as if you truly beleive that the dozens of MMS girls with the same anger at the school are completely f-d and that's why they feel this way, when many are actually successful adults now.  
John always used that stupid phrase--- if it quacks like a duck...  And we all know that John Mercer does a hell of a lot of quacking. A hell of a lot...
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2006, 03:01:00 AM »
Betsy, seriously. Enough with the drastic inflamatory ploys for attention, it's childish. "Ask for what you need..." or some psycho-babble of the like.

Annick
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2006, 07:35:00 PM »
???? maybe you should be specific....your post doesn't make since. if I dont get it neither will B or anyone else....????
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2006, 01:11:00 AM »
GIRLS!  YOU ARE NOW YOUNG WOMEN AND BOTH SIDES OF THE MMS ISSUES NEED TO BE HEARD.  SUPPORT EACH OTHER COME TOGETHER FOR THE BETTERMENT OF ALL PAST AND PRESENT ALUMNI.  I AM THE MOTHER OF A FORMER STUDENT WHO ATTENDED MMS.  I WAS, I THOUGHT, CAUTIOUS AND RESPONCIBLE WHEN CHOOSING THE SCHOOL.  I RESEARCHED AND INTERVIEWED JOHN AND GARY. I WAS ADAMANT ABOUT NOT PUNISHING MY DAUGHTER BUT ALLOWING HER TIME IN A DIFFERENT SETTING WITH OTHER YOUNG GIRLS WHO HAD SIMILAR
 PROBLEMS TO TRY AND WORK OUT PROBLEMS SHE WAS HAVING IN HER LIFE.  I WAS ASSURED BY JOHN MERCER, THAT THIS PROGRAM WAS ONE OF POSITIVE REENFORCEMENT AND ENCOURAGEMENT.  YOU SEE,  WHEN YOU LOVE SOMEONE SO DESPERATELY, YOU WANT "THE VERY BEST"  FOR THEM.  YOU ARE ALSO DESPERATE TO HELP THEM HELP THEMSELVES.  IN ALL ACTUALITY, MMS HAD THE SETTING AND ENVIRONMENT TO BE THE VERY BEST SCHOOL FOR TROUBLED GIRLS LIKE MY DAUGHTER.  THEY LOST THEIR VISION AND RESPECT OF STAFF, MANY GIRLS, AND THEIR PARENTS.  I STILL BELIEVE, GIVEN THE RESOURCES, LOCATION, AND FUNDING, SOMEONE ELSE COULD TURN MMS INTO A REAL SAFE HAVEN FOR GROWTH AND HEALING.  TOO MANY STUDENTS FOR TOO FEW STAFF WAS A REAL PROBLEM.  MY GOAL WOULD HAVE BEEN TO HAVE THE GIRLS INTERGRATE INTO THE LOCAL SCHOOL SYSTEM AND HAVE STAFF AT THE SCHOOL WHO COULD GUIDE AND KEEP TABS ON EACH GIRLS PROGRESS. IN ADDITION THERE WOULD HAVE BEEN A PSYCHOLOGIST AND PSYCHIATRIST ON STAFF. EACH GIRL WOULD ALSO BE ALLOWED TO HAVE UNSUPERVISED TELEPHONE TIME WITH HER PARENTS OR GUARDIANS. MIA'S MOM
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2006, 01:32:00 PM »
may I add- to have MMS regulated and ensure that the methods they use are poven to work. you can't just have a random crazy dude open up shop and call it a school and say it's positive rienforcment but not know what their doing or talking about... The type of complete isolation from society- such a 70's and 80's thing to do... akin to locking up mental health paitents in psych wards- as you suggested real living and real socializing is curcial to the development of a young adult.  Things that MMS does have proven to be harmful, we can't just go locking up kids just because, their needs to be a suitalbe reason to do so- and we need to provide care in the community for teens who are struggling but do not require institutionalization... we're going backwards as a society while science moves forward and has shown us programs like MMS are a step backwards whil presented as a step forward....we're not talking Outward Bound here- We're talking forced labor, excercize, and pschological coercion, sever restrcition on liberties and rights to induce change (not growth)... this is a HUGE step back.  and considering hte larger issue this presents- the ability to control someone body and therefore their mind and will is frightening and it's happening now at MMS and elswhere.  Liz suggestsed reading Foucalt- I agree, he pegs this one.  I also recommend the links below.  These methods are no joke.

Change starts at home and in the community first.

http://cafety.org/index.php?option=com_ ... &Itemid=35

http://cafety.org/index.php?option=com_ ... &Itemid=35
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2006, 05:56:00 AM »
May i add..... u quoted something from 16 years ago...
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2006, 04:52:00 PM »
Quote
On 2006-04-26 02:56:00, Anonymous wrote:

"May i add..... u quoted something from 16 years ago... "


may i add that I'm not sure what relevancey that has.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #13 on: April 26, 2006, 06:21:00 PM »
Quote
On 2006-04-26 13:52:00, Anonymous wrote:

"
Quote

On 2006-04-26 02:56:00, Anonymous wrote:


"May i add..... u quoted something from 16 years ago... "




may i add that I'm not sure what relevancey that has."

May I add that Singer's description of what happens at MMS was remarkabley accurate.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #14 on: May 01, 2006, 07:47:00 PM »
I think everyone's view is valid and based on their own experience. Those of us who are in the 'older' group are most likely people who attended the school before they had any sort of reform. We were their guinea pigs. Anytime you are starting something new, such as a school for disturbed children, licensed professionals should be in charge. The fact is, they were not. People led group sessions that were not up to par with the legal requirements for them to do group. Especially group with fragile kids.

I believe that as time went on Mission Mountain School was required to educate and license the people in charge of the group. It is unfortunate that some of us had to endure the mental anguish that we endured at certain times in order for them to see the need for a proper education. Sorry about the run on, I am on tangent.

The only person that I believe had ill intentions was John Mercer. I dont believe he was sitting at home plotting our emotional turmoil. I do, however, know for a fact that he picked out certain people to push to an emotional breaking point just because he could. I was thankful that I was not always on his list.

I distinctly remember that he would take a good minute before group to look around the group and look us each in the eyes instilling fear. Then he would pick one person, have everyone point out their every fault or flaw, then go on to make sure everyone singled this person out for the next couple of weeks outside of group. It was emotionally horrible. It took me years to trust friends again. It took me time to stop wondering what other peoples intentions were. I led a life of isolation long after the school.

Part is due to my own emotional problems but the other half was due to MMS.

Now, back to the original post. I think the school treated people differently at different times. Everyones opinion is valid. Everyone has their own and does not deserve to be discredited just because some of us experienced things differently.

Sincerely,

Sarah Matheson
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