Without hate

[Heidi]

let me give you my hotmail email. ninetysix_vette@hotmail.com
yes I used to own a corvette, I did say I had done well, but grew up and traded it in on a Jeep. What can I say, grew up not poor, but not quite middle class either. So I am materalistic, at least I'm honest.

[Heidi]

that is supposed to be ninetysix *underscore* vette @---

[Helena Handbasket]

On 2006-02-01 16:13:00, Heidi wrote:

"I agree. I am a lifer from '83/'84 and would love to hook up with other lifers from then. I actually went all the way through, to include the 6 month follow up. Perhaps some of the negative folks did not, dunno, don't really care.

Funny... somehow I, an infidel got the invitation for the 2004 reunion that you were supposed to get?  Sorry... I didn't know who to pass it along to.

It did alot of good for me. Yes I did do drugs again and yes, I did worse than before I went in. But I woke the hell up about a year or so after and grew up. I still had fun but with respect for myself and responisibility. I drank occassinally in moderation.

Yeah? So?  You drank in the same manner as millions do every day... uh... responsibly???

I have had a very happy and successful life thus far. I speak up for myself now, (oviously),

Funny.... Speaking up for myself is what landed me in LIFE in the first place, because speaking up for oneself was just not allowed in our dictatorship.  It wasn't exactly allowed in LIFE either.  Tell me - how exactly did "not talking out in group" afford you the ability to speak up for yourself now?

... and I don't give a rats behind what others think of me. I live well, sleep well, and love what I see in the mirror.

Wow, we actually do have something common.
Yes, really, it's true.  Although Helen told you all that time that not completing the program would result in complete personal ruination, there were a few phoenix types that flew above the ashes, even at the contempt of the beehived wonder.

If anyone else form life and from those years especially is interested I am contemplating starting a yahoo group for former lifers that, hang on, is positive! I will be moderating it, so spam and doomers, don't bother your crap won't be posted."

Well, I'm not a spammer, and I'm 180 degrees away from doomsayers... do I still qualify if I think your admiration of a bunch of egotistal sychophants - your peers who still revere Helen Petermann - moronic??

Our friends and allies in the Middle East and Europe will soon be subject to forms of intimidation by an Iraqi government bent on dominating the Middle East and its oil reserves,
http://www.sptimes.com/' target='_new'>Project for the New American Century (were they talking about themselves?)

[Anonymous]

On 2006-02-02 12:48:00, Helena Handbasket wrote:

"

On 2006-02-01 16:13:00, Heidi wrote:


"I agree. I am a lifer from '83/'84 and would love to hook up with other lifers from then. I actually went all the way through, to include the 6 month follow up. Perhaps some of the negative folks did not, dunno, don't really care.

Funny... somehow I, an infidel got the invitation for the 2004 reunion that you were supposed to get?  Sorry... I didn't know who to pass it along to.

It did alot of good for me. Yes I did do drugs again and yes, I did worse than before I went in. But I woke the hell up about a year or so after and grew up. I still had fun but with respect for myself and responisibility. I drank occassinally in moderation.

Yeah? So?  You drank in the same manner as millions do every day... uh... responsibly???

I have had a very happy and successful life thus far. I speak up for myself now, (oviously),

Funny.... Speaking up for myself is what landed me in LIFE in the first place, because speaking up for oneself was just not allowed in our dictatorship.  It wasn't exactly allowed in LIFE either.  Tell me - how exactly did "not talking out in group" afford you the ability to speak up for yourself now?

... and I don't give a rats behind what others think of me. I live well, sleep well, and love what I see in the mirror.

Wow, we actually do have something common.

Yes, really, it's true.  Although Helen told you all that time that not completing the program would result in complete personal ruination, there were a few phoenix types that flew above the ashes, even at the contempt of the beehived wonder.

If anyone else form life and from those years especially is interested I am contemplating starting a yahoo group for former lifers that, hang on, is positive! I will be moderating it, so spam and doomers, don't bother your crap won't be posted."

Well, I'm not a spammer, and I'm 180 degrees away from doomsayers... do I still qualify if I think your admiration of a bunch of egotistal sychophants - your peers who still revere Helen Petermann - moronic??

Our friends and allies in the Middle East and Europe will soon be subject to forms of intimidation by an Iraqi government bent on dominating the Middle East and its oil reserves,
http://www.sptimes.com/' target='_new'>Project for the New American Century (were they talking about themselves?)

"

  There goes HELENA, on the ATTACK again. Love how she picks apart these posts, and vomits her opinions throughout.   ::crybaby::

[TimeBomb]

On 2006-02-01 16:13:00, Heidi wrote:

"I am contemplating starting a yahoo group for former lifers that, hang on, is positive! I will be moderating it, so spam and doomers, don't bother your crap won't be posted."

:lol:

Love, love, love...
That's what it's all about

[Helena Handbasket]

  There goes HELENA, on the ATTACK again. Love how she picks apart these posts, and vomits her opinions throughout.   ::crybaby:: "

You see an attack in that?  You might want to try remedial reading then.

I don't think that a drug that creates euphoria in patients with terminal diseases is having an adverse effect.
--San Francisco oncologist & AIDS doctor, Donald Abrams, M.D.

[Heidi]

you actually bring up some very valad points. I know of at least 2 folk that did not go all the way through and did just fine.

I also do not revere Ms. Pete. I feel shes just as human as the rest of, puts her pants on one leg at a time like we do too. Did you know she smoked cigarettes? Yup hell of an example there. But I do think she meant well. My grandfather died while I was in the program. I did mention they raised me right? By the time they finally let me go to the hospital to see him, it was too late, he did not know me, so even doing it "their way" making amends was impossible. Funny thing was I did and do regrett the way I treated him when I partied. I will never forget that, but I have moved on, can talk about the good times as well as bad, and would like to hook up with some of the other lifers.

[Anonymous]

On 2005-12-23 14:21:00, Anonymous wrote:

"  I think you'll find that 95% of LIFE participants do NOT harbor hate and rage from their experience there.  A few of the other 5% post on this site.  Heck, I ran into an old LIFER at the store just today who stopped me, hugged me and laughed about "those days", and all the people we know and have kept in touch with.

  I'm so glad that was my experience (shared with many) there. Many GOOD memories.

  One from this time of year would be Christmas caroling with all the 6 phasers and 7 Steppers.  That was a HOOT.  We'd all go eat at Wendy's first (like 30 to 40 of us), and then go to a neighborhood and SING, with candles, dressed for winter.  The people would ask as we walked away "are you with a church?", and we'd laugh and reply "no, a drug rehab".  One family called the NEWS to come film us.  Loved it.

  Merry Christmas all."

That depends on WHEN you were there.
In the Grand Opening days,or the last Close-Out Sale days.
I was there from DAY ONE and it was physically and mentally abusive.20 year old oldcommers beating up 14 and 15 year old children.UNSUPERVISED "group sessions" where your "peers" could do anything to you that they wanted.
Today I have a Hitler like response to ANYONE who does not stick to thier word,and I learned that in the cL.I.F.E. Program,EVEN THOUGH I never made it off of 1st Phase.I was kicked out of the program,but thier doctrine still sunk in to my brain and has remained there until this day.I do not acecpt ANY kind of authoriety and have never held a job in my life,because I treat people like we did IN the program.
Count me in your 5%.

[Helena Handbasket]

On 2006-02-01 18:43:00, Heidi wrote:

"let me give you my hotmail email. ninetysix_vette@hotmail.com

yes I used to own a corvette, I did say I had done well, but grew up and traded it in on a Jeep. What can I say, grew up not poor, but not quite middle class either. So I am materalistic, at least I'm honest. "

Curious, Heidi... your '96 Vette makes me wonder if you're someone I know.  Do you live in the Clearwater/Tarpon Springs area?   Have a teenage daughter who was about 13 in 2002?  I can't remember your husband's name, but he was in the medical supply business?



 

The sadist cannot stand the separation of the public and the private; nor can he grant to others the mystery of their personality, the validity of their inner self...in order for him to feel his maximum power, he wants the world to be peopled with concrete manipulatable objects...
-- ERNEST BECKER, The Structure of Evil, 1968.

[Anonymous]

On 2006-02-13 04:29:00, Anonymous wrote:

"

On 2005-12-23 14:21:00, Anonymous wrote:


"  I think you'll find that 95% of LIFE participants do NOT harbor hate and rage from their experience there.  A few of the other 5% post on this site.  Heck, I ran into an old LIFER at the store just today who stopped me, hugged me and laughed about "those days", and all the people we know and have kept in touch with.


  I'm so glad that was my experience (shared with many) there. Many GOOD memories.


  One from this time of year would be Christmas caroling with all the 6 phasers and 7 Steppers.  That was a HOOT.  We'd all go eat at Wendy's first (like 30 to 40 of us), and then go to a neighborhood and SING, with candles, dressed for winter.  The people would ask as we walked away "are you with a church?", and we'd laugh and reply "no, a drug rehab".  One family called the NEWS to come film us.  Loved it.


  Merry Christmas all."

That depends on WHEN you were there.

In the Grand Opening days,or the last Close-Out Sale days.

I was there from DAY ONE and it was physically and mentally abusive.20 year old oldcommers beating up 14 and 15 year old children.UNSUPERVISED "group sessions" where your "peers" could do anything to you that they wanted.

Today I have a Hitler like response to ANYONE who does not stick to thier word,and I learned that in the cL.I.F.E. Program,EVEN THOUGH I never made it off of 1st Phase.I was kicked out of the program,but thier doctrine still sunk in to my brain and has remained there until this day.I do not acecpt ANY kind of authoriety and have never held a job in my life,because I treat people like we did IN the program.

Count me in your 5%."

You honestly believe that you can't hold a job and you don't respect authority because you had to sit on a bench and listen to kids cry about doing drugs?  Give me a fucking break.  I would bet that you like that excuse to be a fuck up.  Blame it on the program from two decades ago.  What about personal responsibility?  You aren't a child.  You can make your own decisions.  Why would you allow yourself to be a victim of the program?  That is a load of bullshit.  It was a bad place but damn, just damn, it is time to move on.  I hated the months that I was there but it is pretty much a non issue in my life now.

[Anonymous]

On 2006-02-13 04:29:00, Anonymous wrote:

I do not acecpt ANY kind of authoriety and have never held a job in my life,because I treat people like we did IN the program.

LIFE was abusive, no doubt about that but DAMN!  Get a grip.  Most people had it the same as you, some had it worse.  It's not an excuse to treat other people like shit and be a bum for the rest of your life.  Not to say that we all don't have lingering problems from that place, that pretty much goes without saying.  By treating everyone around you the same way as you were treated then makes you virtually no different because now you KNOW better.  You KNOW how that can effect people.

[Anonymous]

On 2006-02-14 06:50:00, Anonymous wrote:

"

On 2006-02-13 04:29:00, Anonymous wrote:


"

On 2005-12-23 14:21:00, Anonymous wrote:



"  I think you'll find that 95% of LIFE participants do NOT harbor hate and rage from their experience there.  A few of the other 5% post on this site.  Heck, I ran into an old LIFER at the store just today who stopped me, hugged me and laughed about "those days", and all the people we know and have kept in touch with.



  I'm so glad that was my experience (shared with many) there. Many GOOD memories.



  One from this time of year would be Christmas caroling with all the 6 phasers and 7 Steppers.  That was a HOOT.  We'd all go eat at Wendy's first (like 30 to 40 of us), and then go to a neighborhood and SING, with candles, dressed for winter.  The people would ask as we walked away "are you with a church?", and we'd laugh and reply "no, a drug rehab".  One family called the NEWS to come film us.  Loved it.



  Merry Christmas all."

That depends on WHEN you were there.


In the Grand Opening days,or the last Close-Out Sale days.


I was there from DAY ONE and it was physically and mentally abusive.20 year old oldcommers beating up 14 and 15 year old children.UNSUPERVISED "group sessions" where your "peers" could do anything to you that they wanted.


Today I have a Hitler like response to ANYONE who does not stick to thier word,and I learned that in the cL.I.F.E. Program,EVEN THOUGH I never made it off of 1st Phase.I was kicked out of the program,but thier doctrine still sunk in to my brain and has remained there until this day.I do not acecpt ANY kind of authoriety and have never held a job in my life,because I treat people like we did IN the program.


Count me in your 5%."

You honestly believe that you can't hold a job and you don't respect authority because you had to sit on a bench and listen to kids cry about doing drugs?  Give me a fucking break.  I would bet that you like that excuse to be a fuck up.  Blame it on the program from two decades ago.  What about personal responsibility?  You aren't a child.  You can make your own decisions.  Why would you allow yourself to be a victim of the program?  That is a load of bullshit.  It was a bad place but damn, just damn, it is time to move on.  I hated the months that I was there but it is pretty much a non issue in my life now.  "

No.I did not say all of that.
But it is true that some of the program language and criteria,and method of arguing that I was learned in the program is in my head today.If I need to argue with family members or authoriety today,I use the Hitler like method I learned in group sessions.
The word "should" was not allowed in group,for instance.
The meaning and definations of certain words were changed in my head in the program.
If I hold you against your will,beat you while repeating "I love you,I love you...",eventually the phrase "I love you" will have a different meaning in your head.Its called "brainwashing".
You replace the meaning of certain words,one word at a time.
SUSQUEHANNA HAT COMPANY!!!!(from an old Abbot and Costello movie.Costello asked a random man on the street "Do you know where the Susquhanna Hat Company is?",and the guy beat the shit out of him.
I live in China now and I hear this kind of shit every day,like "...and the nation of Togo "adheres" to the one China policy",or,"This reflects the will of "all" the Chinese people",etc.etc.
Im living in China on my $385USD monthly SSI check,so I dont need a job right now.My rent is about $30usd a month,with a monthly electric bill of about $4 per month.I dont speak Chinese,so I usually dont run in to conflict with people that much,plus most of them love me and shower me with free food and cigarettes.

[Anonymous]

And again I question your lack of desire to change.  If you were one of the first people that were in the LIFE program, well, you have had damn near 30 years to change your life around instead of holding onto anger and saying that you were brainwashed.  By saying that the words that were used against you 25 years ago still affect you today means that you allow yourself to be victimized over and over.  Why? I don't believe for a second that your shitty life is because of the LIFE program back in the early 80s.  Alot of people went through it and found a way to pull themselves together and move the fuck on.  But it does make for a nice excuse, doesn't it?  No matter how bad I hated the program.  I would never let it be the only thing that defined my life.  That is just sad.

[Anonymous]

On 2006-02-15 05:15:00, Anonymous wrote:

"And again I question your lack of desire to change.  If you were one of the first people that were in the LIFE program, well, you have had damn near 30 years to change your life around instead of holding onto anger and saying that you were brainwashed.  By saying that the words that were used against you 25 years ago still affect you today means that you allow yourself to be victimized over and over.  Why? I don't believe for a second that your shitty life is because of the LIFE program back in the early 80s.  Alot of people went through it and found a way to pull themselves together and move the fuck on.  But it does make for a nice excuse, doesn't it?  No matter how bad I hated the program.  I would never let it be the only thing that defined my life.  That is just sad.  "

"Excuse" is not right.
Everything I have experienced in my life is what I am today.
I have "changed quite a bit since those days,but my experience in L.I.F.E. is part of what I am now."Brainwashing" does not go away.Its kind of like having a song go through your head even when you never liked the song.
Reading the stuff on this website awakened me that there ARE many other people who have similar thoughts and memories as I do about the sever abuse suffered at L.I.F.E.
I dont go around scrawling this stuff on bathroom walls!This is the apropriate place to share these horrid memories with others about the events I experienced in L.I.F.E. that tore my soul so far apart.
I am doing things SO INTERESTING in my life these days that I never dreamed would be possible.

[Anonymous]

no big whoop to a sociopath