Author Topic: Spring Creek Lodge  (Read 336646 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #1125 on: March 22, 2006, 11:46:00 AM »
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Hindsight is always best. But when you are awake all night searching websites for help and every search takes you to a WWASP school and then the ed cons call and start to calm your fears and then send you to parents and chat rooms that confirm what the ed cons and wwasp parents tell you, you want to believe. You want help for your desparate situation.


What percentage of program parents admit they were wrong? Even if their kid was abused at the program?

Not many, I've only spoken to a handful. You can't claim you were tricked into the program and then preach it as the word of god. It just doesn't equate.
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Offline Troll Control

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« Reply #1126 on: March 22, 2006, 12:09:00 PM »
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Come on....no parent chooses a TBS because they want to! That is silly! They are too expensive and it is certainly not socially acceptable!


This is totally untrue.  I was an intake counselor at a TBS and I have personally heard several parents say "I'm going to keep him/her here until s/he's 18 and then s/he's on his/her own."  Or, "I just want him/her gone.  I can't live my life like this."  Some parents had THREE KIDS in the program at once.

So, I can tell you from first hand experiencer that there is a significant percentage of program parents who just want their kid "gone."  Usually in these cases the kids are pretty good kids, but were raised so badly that they came to have problems surrounding their parental relationships.  In a sense, the parents created the problem and then got rid of the problem.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #1127 on: March 22, 2006, 12:12:00 PM »
I don't think I have done either.  I just put Spring Creek Lodge in the search box on aol.  The first pages is nothing but websites singing the acalades of the program.  Except for one online news artilce.  I went to that.  It was a well written article stating comments from Spring Creek staff and kids in the program and families that pulled their kids from the program.  Just the facts.  Didn't see any real slant.  If I read that article and was considering SCL, I would stop or at the very least, reconsider and do more research.  But if I happened on to the SCL website and to the 51 pages of testimonials instead....UGGGGHHHHHH, nightmare setup in the making!  Oh...the article was 5-6 sites down.  I would have really wanted to find something.  I am not sure if I was desparate and searching and on a short time frame that I would  have made it that far in the search with the first several sites being so positive.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #1128 on: March 22, 2006, 12:21:00 PM »
That is sick.  As a parent, I can't think of anything more awful than having my child away from me, even when they are acting absolutely horrible!  It is at those times I know I want them even closer!  The families I know that have had to send kids somewhere only did so out of desparation and with the advice of a therapist.  One family's therapist even reccomended SCL and Casa.  So.....therapists need education as well.  Thankfully, this family did not choose a wwasp program, but only by the grace of God, not because of finding out anything horrible.  Since, the family has sent info regarding problems and abuse allegations to the counseling center.  But please, don't assume that because you know some parents did just want out of raising their kids, that all parents that send their kids away just want out.  And...I will not assume that no parent sends for babysitting purposes.  It just seems like such an expensive sitter!
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #1129 on: March 22, 2006, 12:22:00 PM »
Indeed, it does have everything to do with the parents. Hence the (more apropos) term "Troubled Parend Industry".

Most kids are not perfect little angels who always demonstrate sage-like wisdom and forethought. That's why we don't let them vote, hold public office or own real estate. But they do grow up. Girlfriends and boyfriends don't always go away. Sometimes they become wives, husbands or lifelong friends.

When a kid starts to really grow up, nobody knows enough about them to take drastic steps like locking them down in a thought reform program. Not even the kid knows because they're in the process of re-inventing themselves as an adult. We all did it. When I was 17 and taking my leave of childhood, I can tell you it would have been a whole lot easier if I could have gotten support and practical advice from my parents instead of having to stick by my state appointed body guards for fear of their having me kidnapped again.

Can you see how that makes some sense?

You want to talk about a year from now? Ok, go on over to the Struggling Turkeys site and look over all of their advice about "detachment" and exit plans. Notice how those threads do not go on for weeks and months. Lon cuts them short when they get a little too "unsuportive" and demonstrate an unwillingness to "trust the process" on the part of the parent who, after spending all the money and having their kid held incommunicado for months may want to know what it all was for and how many others get the same result.

Hint! That's why there are so few regular users on Lon's site; he bans them when they quit towing the party line.

At the end of the day, most families who do complete the program wind up back in the very same situation with the added complication of the parents having taken a firm position against their kid unless they continue to swollow the noxious Program version of reality with a big smile.

The Program tears familys apart. This is not usually the parents' intention (except for those few freaks who make a career of it long past the time the grown kids lose their number and move to the other side of the continent) But it's almost always the result.

So what's this detachment and exit plan stuff they're so fond of recomending after they've got all your money? Well, it boils down to doing just what Program vets and this kid's friends have been advising all along; quit trying to strong arm the kid into adopting your conclusions about life, the universe and everything. Quit being so damned scared. Have a little real, honest to goodness faith in the kid to sort things out WITH the freely given help and support of honest to God family and his chosen friends. Quit listening to these creepy sanctimonious strangers who want to get paid to medal in your lives.

Trust me, they won't be there for you if things go badly. They won't even acknowledge that you ever were a part of their Utopia, unless you're good for their PR. All their self rightious diatribes about the evils of "non working" friends and lifestyle choices is nothing but projection.


A celibate clergy is an especially good idea because it tends to suppress any hereditary propensity toward fanaticism.
--Carl Sagan, American astronomer and author

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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #1130 on: March 22, 2006, 12:29:00 PM »
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On 2006-03-22 09:21:00, Anonymous wrote:

 The families I know that have had to send kids somewhere only did so out of desparation and with the advice of a therapist.


Well desperation never made a good bargain and therapists can often be wrong.

What are the names of the therapists who are recomending SCL? I think their licensing boards ought to be informed.

That's all marijuana is, after all. It's just a plant, a common and easily grown one at that. In many cultures, its consumption was lawful for millennia. And in all that time, the bond between thugs, mayhem, murder and marijuana that we see today did not exist.

http://www.mapinc.org/author/Dan+Gardner' target='_new'>Dan Gardner, CanWest News Service

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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #1131 on: March 22, 2006, 12:54:00 PM »
The family has sent the family counseling program the articles and information regarding SCL and wwasp in general.  This group responded with big thank yous and said they no longer include them with their list of alternative living arrangements.  They truly work to keep families together.  

With this family, the child was bent on a life on the streets.  That is what he knew and was most comfortable with.  (These were not his first set of parents)  Legally, parents cannot allow that.  Where we are from, if your minor child says he is going to run and you do nothing to prevent it, the parent can be charged with abandonment.  Years of counseling, several episodes of running, looking into alternatives and compromises did nothing.  I know you would like to blame the parents, but there are some extenuating circumstances that were out of the parents control.  Without giving details,  I just want to say that not all parents seek a TBS just to throw away a child or torture them.  Some are truly seeking help for their child and their family.  Again, my plea is that you continue to expose the programs that are evil for what they are, and not assume that the parents are always the evil ones.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #1132 on: March 22, 2006, 05:12:00 PM »
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On 2006-03-22 09:54:00, Anonymous wrote:

"The family has sent the family counseling program the articles and information regarding SCL and wwasp in general.  This group responded with big thank yous and said they no longer include them with their list of alternative living arrangements.  They truly work to keep families together.  



With this family, the child was bent on a life on the streets.  That is what he knew and was most comfortable with.  (These were not his first set of parents)  Legally, parents cannot allow that.  Where we are from, if your minor child says he is going to run and you do nothing to prevent it, the parent can be charged with abandonment.  Years of counseling, several episodes of running, looking into alternatives and compromises did nothing.  I know you would like to blame the parents, but there are some extenuating circumstances that were out of the parents control.  Without giving details,  I just want to say that not all parents seek a TBS just to throw away a child or torture them.  Some are truly seeking help for their child and their family.  Again, my plea is that you continue to expose the programs that are evil for what they are, and not assume that the parents are always the evil ones."


The parents do have another choice.  They can seek the option of helping the kid get emancipated status.  Usually, the biggest thing the courts are concerned about is whether the parents are trying to get out of their obligation to support their minor child.

Since the child usually doesn't have to actually be entirely supporting himself with a job, if I had an adopted child who actively wanted back out, where I was otherwise going to spend $60k-$80k to send the kid to a program, instead I would stick a sum of money in a trust fund for the kid with people other than me and hubby as the trustees, with the trust set up to pay certain of the kid's bills (like rent, utils and limited phone minutes) directly, and pay the kid a small allowance from the trust.  Then the kid only has limited stuff to support himself from out of a job.

The emancipation rules usually only say that the child doesn't need ongoing support from the parents, not whether they ever needed it.  The trust satisfies the court that the parents are not just trying to get out of support obligations for the kid.

The parents can allow a kid to live independently.  That's not against the law.  By emancipation, the parents can be relieved of liability for any of the kid's future torts, or crimes.  If the emancipated kid keeps drugs in the apartment the trust pays for, neither the trustees nor the parents are liable.

Parents *do* have another option than RTCs.

Frequently when people say "on the streets" they don't mean homeless, they mean living in a poor, urban neighborhood and associating with poor, urban people.

Incipient poverty isn't a good reason to lock someone up in what amounts to a private prison.

Julie
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Offline Troll Control

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« Reply #1133 on: March 22, 2006, 05:28:00 PM »
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Without giving details, I just want to say that not all parents seek a TBS just to throw away a child or torture them. Some are truly seeking help for their child and their family.


This is true I would say in the vast, vast majority of cases.  I don't think that anyone can dispute that.

It's a shame that the purveyors of these type of BM programs use such deceptive and unethical methods to rope in fresh marks.  They're unscrupulous.

The other side of coin is that the parents aren't doing their research and proper consultations with reputable disinterested parties before they send their kids to these institutions.  Parents are not doing their due diligence.

The combination of these two factors combined with the solemn fact children in our society have no rights and no voice has led to shattered lives - and even deaths - for far too many at the hands of unethical, untrained, uneducated and greedy profiteers looking only for the monitary enrichment of the business.
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #1134 on: March 22, 2006, 06:15:00 PM »
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On 2006-03-22 09:54:00, Anonymous wrote:

The family has sent the family counseling program the articles and information regarding SCL and wwasp in general. This group responded with big thank yous and said they no longer include them with their list of alternative living arrangements. They truly work to keep families together.


 :nworthy:  :nworthy:  :nworthy:

My view is that if there is no evidence for it, then forget about it. An agnostic is somebody who doesn't believe in something until there is evidence for it, so I'm agnostic.
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #1135 on: March 22, 2006, 06:32:00 PM »
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On 2006-03-22 14:12:00, Anonymous wrote:
Frequently when people say "on the streets" they don't mean homeless, they mean living in a poor, urban neighborhood and associating with poor, urban people.



Incipient poverty isn't a good reason to lock someone up in what amounts to a private prison.



Julie"


I quite agree. In fact, probably half or more of the source of trouble in our family had to do w/ my parents' differening backgrounds and priorities. Mom was raised by a maid (or, rather, a succession of them) while my dad had a dirt floor to come home to. We all probably had just a tad too much fun fuckin' with her by going out of our way to emulate Dad. But then, she had a good lot of it coming to her, imho.

I don't think she ever understood how unkind and unhelpful it is to insult and degrade a kid's other parent right in front of them. Dad did. I will never know what he thought of that woman. He refused to discuss her in anything but respectful tones, or even allow anyone else to in his presence. So Dad never said much about her at all. There just wasn't much to say. Mom finally quit with the "You're just like your father!" as an insult when I finally came up with a fitting retort; "Why Mom, thank you! That's the nicest thing you've said to me ... in years!"



Beware the leader who bangs the drums of war in order to whip the citizenry into a patriotic fervor, for patriotism is indeed a double-edged sword. It both emboldens the blood, just as it narrows the mind. And when the drums of war have reached a fever pitch and the blood boils with hate and the mind has closed, the leader will have no need in seizing the rights of the citizenry. Rather, the citizenry, infused with fear and blinded by patriotism, will offer up all of their rights unto the leader and gladly so. How do I know? For this is what I have done. And I am Caesar.
                                                                               
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #1136 on: March 22, 2006, 07:57:00 PM »
These parents didn't send Alex there to get rid of him they were scared and because of other interfering people they were unable to even talk sensible to him. They didn't have much time and had to make a choice.

I think this is the point Anonymous is trying to get across.

I understand there are family's that send there kids away because they have had enough that is horrible!!!!!

Good luck on having them closed
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Offline CCM girl 1989

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« Reply #1137 on: March 24, 2006, 12:50:00 AM »
I'm still waiting to hear from Alex.
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f you were never in a program, or a parent of a child in a program, then you have no business posting here.

Offline CaughtInTheMiddle

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« Reply #1138 on: March 24, 2006, 08:18:00 AM »
Then keep waiting. He isn't ready to post.
Who knows he may never be.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #1139 on: March 24, 2006, 08:48:00 AM »
He is staying with Ashleys Mom isnt he?
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