Author Topic: Friendly neighborhood Meth Lab  (Read 5226 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #15 on: December 01, 2005, 12:47:00 PM »
Compared to the tragedy of the missing pizza dellivery drivers? Come on, let's get some perspective.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #16 on: December 02, 2005, 08:34:00 AM »
Who was it that said that Antigen and Carmel never seem to disagree on anything? Sure glad that you gals are not the ones making decisions for everyone. Antigen, you gave a nice little history lesson on Meth but you were not as accurate as you might think.
As far as knowing someone personaly who was addicted to meth, it's hard NOT to know. The horrible physical and mental changes that occur are unmistakable. So, you go get up on that mountain top and scream your bloody head off Antigen. When your sister, daughter, friend, husband, gets hooked on meth and it becomes more than just a debate of policy on this board, then maybe I will listen to your babble.
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Offline groovy1634

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« Reply #17 on: December 02, 2005, 01:06:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-12-01 09:00:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Whether or not Meth is illegal is besides the point. Meth addiction is a horrible thing."


I agree....nothing good can come from meth.....I feel for you and your delima, Carmel...even if YOU don't say anything, nature will be sure to run it's course...they will either get busted, blow the house up or someone will call about the animals....if you do say something, don't worry about it....i'm sure others in the area are concerned as well...
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EOW  


Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #18 on: December 05, 2005, 02:18:00 PM »
Monsters always return to their creators.

Neighborhood meth labs don't last long.  Anyone cooking in a neighborhood does not know what they are doing and will fuck up.

Meth is not evil.  What some people do on meth is evil, and what some people do to get meth is evil.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #19 on: December 06, 2005, 09:38:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-12-05 11:18:00, Reagan Youth wrote:

"Monsters always return to their creators.



Neighborhood meth labs don't last long.  Anyone cooking in a neighborhood does not know what they are doing and will fuck up.



Meth is not evil.  What some people do on meth is evil, and what some people do to get meth is evil.  
"


So fucking true.  Personally, I hate the shit as a recreational high, but it was great for making those back-road, cross-country drives my former profession occasionally required of me.  Drugs are inanimate objects, they are neither inherently good nor evil in and of themselves (except for TBPITW, which is so ruthlessly evil that it's good, but that's a special case).
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #20 on: December 07, 2005, 09:56:00 AM »
For the record, Meth isn't completely illegal; it is a controlled substance. It can be prescribed for ADD treatment (though rarely anymore). It's brand name is Desoxyn and comes in 5mg doses. Funny how that works.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #21 on: December 07, 2005, 02:55:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-12-07 06:56:00, Anonymous wrote:

"For the record, Meth isn't completely illegal; it is a controlled substance. It can be prescribed for ADD treatment (though rarely anymore). It's brand name is Desoxyn and comes in 5mg doses. Funny how that works."


You are correct that Desoxyn is prescription crystal meth:
http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic2/methamphetamine.htm

I do not think that you are correct about Desoxyn
being used for ADD or ADHD. At least not in the
first lines of treatment.

The "funny how speed works" is called the paradoxical effect.

It is also a quick test for someone to determine
if they may have ADD or ADHD.

If a normal person takes speed, they speed up.

If a person takes speed, and slows down, and is
able to concentrate better then they most likely
have ADD or ADHD and should go for further testing.
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #22 on: December 08, 2005, 04:30:00 PM »
No, sorry. That's yet another myth busted by honest research. Fact is, you give anybody a little blow or other stimulant and it will improve their performance. That's why the military continues to use "go pills" to keep their soldiers sharp. That's why stims are so damned popular among grad students during exam season. The shit works.

There's no more real correlation between ADD and beneficial effects from stims than there ever was between boyancy and witchcraft.

Lighthouses are more helpful then churches.
--Benjamin Franklin, American Founding Father, author, and inventor

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"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
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Offline Carmel

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« Reply #23 on: December 08, 2005, 04:43:00 PM »
This may be all too true, however I have observed that people who are normally hyperactive get alot less agitation and anxiety when they are doing blow than say, someone like me who is not hyperactive at all.  I have observed it quite a bit in more than a handful of people.  These are those jackasses who can fall asleep after snorting a huge rail.  I never could figure that out.
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...hands went up and people hit the floor, he wasted two kids that ran for the door....."
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #24 on: December 08, 2005, 06:58:00 PM »
Quote


There's no more real correlation between ADD and beneficial effects from stims than there ever was between boyancy and witchcraft.


"


I speak from personal experience.

I know you would respect my life and
my choice of treatments and my knowledge
of what effect it had on my mind and body.

Thanks!
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Offline funster

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« Reply #25 on: December 08, 2005, 07:17:00 PM »
In my experience of testing, speed always drove me down and upon further testing was considered adhd. what a joke. i just call it chronic spaziness and jog 5 miles a day and smoke weed.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #26 on: December 09, 2005, 09:41:00 AM »
Attention Deficit Hyperactivity

TREATMENT

    One reason for regarding ADD as a distinct disorder with a biological origin is the immediate and striking relief from some of its symptoms provided by the stimulant drugs methylphenidate (Ritalin), dextroamphetamine (Dexedrine), and magnesium pemoline (Cylert). These drugs are helpful for about 75% of children and adults with ADD. They become less irritable and restless, and their attention and motor coordination improve; others begin to like them better, and they begin to think better of themselves. The drugs have no direct effect on learning disabilities, but may make special education and tutoring easier.

    There is little danger of drug abuse or addiction, because patients do not feel euphoria or develop tolerance or craving. They become dependent on stimulant drugs, it has been said, only in the same sense that a person with diabetes is dependent on insulin or a nearsighted person on eyeglasses. The main side effects - appetite loss, stomach aches, nervousness, and insomnia - usually subside within a week or can be eliminated by lowering the dose. A child's rate of growth may be slowed for a few years while he is taking a stimulant, but it returns to normal in adolescence. There is no evidence of long-term deleterious effects.

    Methylphenidate and dextroamphetamine are short-acting drugs, but they are now available in time-release capsules that prolong the effects to eight or ten hours. Pemoline is longer-acting. The drug is started at a low dose that is gradually increased if necessary; parents can make adjustments according to the child's level of activity. If the symptoms do not improve after two weeks at the highest acceptable dose, drugs will probably never be useful. Some experts recommend that children take stimulants only during school hours and not on weekends or vacations. Most believe that drug treatment should be discontinued for several weeks once every six months or once a year to see whether it is still needed.

    Several other kinds of drugs are also used in treating ADD, especially when the patient does not improve on stimulants or cannot tolerate their side effects. Beta-blockers such as propranolol (Inderal) or nadolol (Corgard) can be prescribed along with (or occasionally instead of) stimulants to reduce jitteriness. Tricyclic antidepressants, especially desipramine (Norpramin), are sometimes effective at doses lower than those used for depression; their most serious potential side effect is disturbance of heart rhythms. Another drug occasionally prescribed for ADD is clonidine, which is ordinarily used to lower blood pressure and suppress tics. Its most common troublesome side effect is drowsiness.

    Most of these drugs alter the effects of one of the catecholamine neurotransmitters, norepinephrine or dopamine; either the transmitter's rate of release or reabsorption is changed, or the brain's sensitivity to it is affected. Neurons that produce these transmitters are located in the RAS and nucleus accumbens, among other regions. Although brain systems using catecholamines are clearly essential for the regulation of attention, the precise way they work is not yet understood. The effects of stimulant drugs were once described as "paradoxical" because they seemed to make children with ADD calmer rather than more active. The paradox, if it is one, is not confined to people with ADD, since low doses of stimulants have been found to improve concentration and reduce restlessness in most children.

    Not a panacea
    The long-term benefits of drug treatment are uncertain. It is difficult to predict which children will be helped and how long the drugs will be needed. Anxiety, depression, learning disabilities, and conduct disorders are not directly affected by the drugs. Although children may calm down, concentrate better, and behave less disruptively while taking a stimulant, there is no solid evidence that their schoolwork improves in the long run or that the adult outcome is affected. The original symptoms usually return in full force when a child stops taking the drug.

    Far from becoming addicted to stimulants, children and especially adolescents with ADD are often reluctant to take the drugs at all. They may be embarrassed about having to see a school nurse at noon to take a pill and humiliated by the implication that they cannot control their own behavior. Adolescents dislike the feeling of being different, defective, or dependent. In one study, 20% of hyperactive children who had agreed to take drugs for a year stopped by the fourth month, and nearly 50% by the tenth month. Another study found that only 22% of children given prescriptions for stimulants continued to take them for as long as two years.

    Pediatricians and family doctors who consider prescribing stimulants should be sure that the problem is really ADD. Children should not be given drugs just because they are noisy or unruly, and other treatable conditions should be excluded. Even if drugs are necessary, they should not be used to the exclusion of other treatments or as an excuse for not trying to find and eliminate the causes of specific symptoms in specific circumstances. ADD is not a simple problem with a single solution. Drugs cannot give people skills they have never developed or fully relieve the resulting frustration and shame. Possibly the most important use of drugs is to create a space for other treatments to work.

    Getting reassurance
    Part of the solution is simply acknowledging that the symptoms constitute a recognized psychiatric disorder. That is often reassuring for children and parents who have found the situation mystifying and maddening. Psychotherapy may help patients to identify and deflect the feelings that cause impulsive and aggressive reactions. (It is often best to ask children to talk not about themselves but about their reactions to other people's complaints.) Since children with ADD often have difficulty following social rules and understanding social situations, therapy must be didactic; for example, they may have to learn how to look at others who talk to them, listen to what they say, and wait their turn before answering. Some therapies work on the assumption that ADD patients have an inadequate sense of the past and future and must learn how to anticipate the consequences of their actions. Group therapy is often helpful, not only for mutual support and exchanges of advice, but because group meetings are a laboratory in which the situations most troublesome for these children can be recreated and they can see in others what they have not been able to see in themselves.

    Children with ADD need structure and routine. They should be helped to make schedules and break assignments down into small tasks to be performed one at a time. It may be necessary to ask them repeatedly what they have just done, how they might have acted differently, and why others react as they do. Especially when young, these children often respond well to strict application of clear and consistent rules. In school, they may be helped by close monitoring, quiet study areas, short study periods broken by activity (including permission to leave the classroom occasionally), and brief directions often repeated. They can be taught how to use flashcards, outlines, and underlining. Timed tests should be avoided as much as possible. Other children in the classroom may show more tolerance if the problem is explained to them in terms they can understand.

    In a sense, establishing structure and routine is a form of behavior therapy - consistent schedules with rewards for acceptable behavior. Behavior therapy in a more formal sense may be useful to prevent a particular kind of aggressive or disruptive behavior that occurs in a few specific circumstances, but applying it to all the situations in which symptoms of ADD appear would be impractical - too time-consuming and demanding for anyone's patience and skill. Some behavior therapists have added cognitive techniques designed to change self-defeating thoughts, with inconclusive results.

    Family conflict is one of the most troublesome consequences of ADD. Especially when the symptoms have not yet been recognized and the diagnosis made, parents blame themselves, one another, and the child. As they become angrier and impose more punishment, the child becomes more defiant and alienated, and the parents still less willing to accept his excuses or believe in his promises. A father or mother with adult ADD sometimes compounds the problem. Constantly compared unfavorably with his brothers and sisters, the child with ADD may become the family scapegoat, blamed for everything that goes wrong. When ADD is diagnosed, parents may feel guilty about not understanding the situation sooner, while other children in the family may reject the diagnosis as an excuse for attention-getting misbehavior.

    To avoid constant family warfare, parents must learn to distinguish behavior with a biological origin from reactions to the primary symptoms or responses to the reactions of others. They should become familiar with signs indicating imminent loss of self-control by a child with ADD. A routine with consistent rules must be established; these rules can be imposed on young children but must be negotiated with older ones and with adolescents. The family should have a clear division of responsibility, and the parents should present a united front. It often helps to write out complaints and to praise good behavior immediately. Role-playing may help a child with ADD to see how others see him. Family therapy or counseling, parent groups, and child management training are sometimes useful.

    Most of the principles used in treating children with ADD also apply to the treatment of adults. They respond almost as well as children to stimulant drugs (according to one study, even cocaine abusers with ADD can be effectively treated with methylphenidate or dextroamphetamine). Like children, they must often learn how to schedule, organize, and take time to reflect before talking or acting. They may need specialists in learning disabilities or psychotherapists to help them with chronic anger, alcohol and drug abuse, or low self-esteem. Self-help support groups can also be useful. Many suggestions for coping with parent-child conflict apply to conflict between husbands and wives. They have to avoid a pattern in which the person with ADD, constantly criticized and nagged, increasingly ignores or distances his or her partner. It may help to list complaints and recommendations and set aside time to spend together, scheduling it if necessary.

    The effectiveness of treatment for ADD is difficult to judge. Patterns of change vary greatly and unpredictably with both drugs and psychotherapy, and there are uncertainties even in the standard measures of outcome; for example, some studies suggest that a child's own feelings about himself, observations of his behavior, and the judgments of other children about him do not change in the same ways or at the same time. Another problem is that the available studies are mostly short-term, although the issues are long term ones. Researchers may never know whether childhood drug treatment has lasting effects, since assigning children at random to a drug or a placebo is no longer considered acceptable. Treatment may become more precise and reliable when the diagnostic standards for ADD are refined and subtypes are differentiated through the study of genetics, family histories, responses to drugs, neuropsychological tests, and the associated learning disabilities and antisocial behavior.

Related Topics:

* Attention Deficit Screening Quiz
http://psychcentral.com/addquiz.htm

* Symptoms of Attention Deficit Disorder
http://psychcentral.com/disorders/sx1.htm
       
* Online Resources
http://psychcentral.com/resources/Atten ... _Disorder/

From the Harvard Mental Health Letter, Copyright 1995. Reprinted here with permission.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #27 on: December 09, 2005, 10:10:00 AM »
Perhaps the biggest and best question to ask when reading about any scientific research is: who paid for it?
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #28 on: December 09, 2005, 09:09:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-12-09 07:10:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Perhaps the biggest and best question to ask when reading about any scientific research is: who paid for it? "


This is true, and a very good point.

Except it is not applicable to the
well known paradoxical effect speed
has on ADD/ADHD patients.

Ask any of us patients ...

There does not need to be any more
research on what has been known for
what ... 70 years since Ritilan came
on the market.
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #29 on: December 09, 2005, 09:53:00 PM »
All that's good and well, anon. But then, how do you explain the use of stimulants in military, accademic and other high performance occupations, professions and vocations? Face facts, people use stims w/ great success (most of the time) because they work pretty much the same for damned near everyone.

I've been looking around a bit for some research I read years ago by Dr. John Morgan on the subject. I saw him speak at a conf a few years back. He was one of the scientists who conducted research intended to prove just what you say here. They lost their grant money because their research showed the opposite; that stimulants improve performance for damned near everybody. And they got a little schooling in public funding and policy pro bono. Pop another black beauty and look it up, why donchya?

As for stims not being habit forming  :rofl: Oh please, gimme a break! Wanna have some fun? Just go and replace the real coffee in some local coffee shop w/ Sanka like they did in that old commercial and see what really happens.

Now, all this said, if you like the drugs you're taking, fine. It's a free country (sort of, you're free to do what the regime allows). Go ahead and enjoy it. You don't have to justify or pretend to anybody that your drugs are better than anybody else's.  

"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."
"Isn't your pants' zipper supposed to be in the front?"
--Hobbs to Calvin

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"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
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