Author Topic: A General Question to Those With Children  (Read 6102 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
A General Question to Those With Children
« on: November 07, 2005, 11:43:00 AM »
We all agree that we would not put our kids through what we went through (i.e. Straight).  What happens if our children do actually develop drug problems?  It seems that almost any type of treatment mentioned here is immediately lablel as brainwashing or Straight-like.  Are there any valid treatments that people know of or would support?  

I'm just wondering how we as parents would really address our children's drug problem if one actually developed.  Has anyone experienced this?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Antigen

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12992
  • Karma: +3/-0
    • View Profile
    • http://wwf.Fornits.com/
A General Question to Those With Children
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2005, 12:10:00 PM »
Actually, no. According to some very expensive government studies, which are supported by other studies, there is no known treatment for substance abuse that's any more effective than no threatment at all.

There are, however, effective ways for individuals to deal w/ unwanted substance dependency. Methadone, though it has it's down side, seems to be a very good replacement for hard opiate addicts who want to get off of heroin. But it takes a good long while to become so hooked on opiates as to even need a replacement drug. I don't know anyone under the age of about 30 who's needed methadone.

The best way for a parent to address drug issues w/ their kids is truthful, accurate education. Nothing more, nothing less. But, of course, in order to truthfully educate your kids you have to educate yourself. Forget everything that's come out of the government since Harry Anslinger. Before he and his buddies decided to solve America's drug problem we didn't have one to speak of. We had morphism, no doubt, especially among war veterans.

But there was no drug crime, no dirty needles and overdose was a rare and, usually, accidental thing. At that time, anyone, even a child, could walk into a drug store and purchase a dose of heroin for the same price as a dose of aspirin. Addiction rates among users were just about exactly the same as they are now; roughly 1% - 2% experience some difficulty quitting or moderating their use at some point.

In other words, aside from the typical, too often taken for granted unconditional familial love and support, you don't have to do anything to save your kid from drugs. They're not that big a threat to most people. And, for those rare few who do have serious problems controling their drug use, the very best thing in the world you can do for them is just the opposite of what the TOUGHLOVE hategroup tells you.

At present there is not a single credible established religion in the world.
--George Bernard Shaw, Irish-born English playwright

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
~ Crosby Stills Nash & Young, Sweet Judy Blue Eyes

Offline starry-eyed pirate

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 3031
  • Karma: +3/-0
    • View Profile
A General Question to Those With Children
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2005, 12:42:00 PM »
Right on!! investigations into the nature of reality are normal. The desire to alter ones' consciousness is a natural instinct.  Drug use is cool, it's the broader social context that seems mistaken.  All drugs should be legal and accessible.  i like the scenes in the book, "The Clan of the Cave Bear"  when the clan gets into their rituals and they sit around their fire at night in some kind of an altered state drinkin' Datura tea.  And the Mo-gur in his head-dress communicates in gesture and ritual his ancient memories...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
If you would have justice in this world, then begin to see that a human being is not a means to some end.  People are not commodities.  When human beings are just to one another government becomes obsolete and real freedom is born; SPIRITUAL ANARCHY.

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
A General Question to Those With Children
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2005, 01:00:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-11-07 09:42:00, starry-eyed pirate wrote:

"Right on!! investigations into the nature of reality are normal. The desire to alter ones' consciousness is a natural instinct.  Drug use is cool, it's the broader social context that seems mistaken.  All drugs should be legal and accessible.  i like the scenes in the book, "The Clan of the Cave Bear"  when the clan gets into their rituals and they sit around their fire at night in some kind of an altered state drinkin' Datura tea.  And the Mo-gur in his head-dress communicates in gesture and ritual his ancient memories..."


Whatever.  Got any kids?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline starry-eyed pirate

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 3031
  • Karma: +3/-0
    • View Profile
A General Question to Those With Children
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2005, 01:04:00 PM »
Yeah.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
If you would have justice in this world, then begin to see that a human being is not a means to some end.  People are not commodities.  When human beings are just to one another government becomes obsolete and real freedom is born; SPIRITUAL ANARCHY.

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
A General Question to Those With Children
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2005, 01:07:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-11-07 10:04:00, starry-eyed pirate wrote:

"Yeah."

Seriously, do you express your views to them or are they too young still?  I'm not judging just curious.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
A General Question to Those With Children
« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2005, 01:25:00 PM »
my son is 25 and I express my views to him directly.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
A General Question to Those With Children
« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2005, 01:38:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-11-07 10:25:00, Anonymous wrote:

"my son is 25 and I express my views to him directly."


Thank you.  I appreciate your openness.  My children are 5 and 7.  Haven't really had these types of discussions except for one time.  I don't know if you are familiar with a basketball player named Len Bias from the University of Maryland who died back in 1985-86 of a cocaine overdose the evening after being drafted by the Boston Celtics.  Well, my son asked me about it when a story about him came on television.  I honestly explained to him that he simply took an amount this illegal drug that killed him (I had to qualify the "illegal" part because his second question was if he would die from taking medicine the doctor had given him when he was sick.)  I also told my son what a shame it was as well because he was so young, intelligent and gifted.  From time to time he mentions this discussion.  It seems to have made an impression at least as much of one as a 7 year old can understand.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
A General Question to Those With Children
« Reply #8 on: November 07, 2005, 02:24:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-11-07 10:07:00, Anonymous wrote:

"
Quote

On 2005-11-07 10:04:00, starry-eyed pirate wrote:


"Yeah."


Seriously, do you express your views to them or are they too young still?  I'm not judging just curious."


some of each.  Once when my daughter, she's 10 now, and i were listening to some live Grand Funk RR, which is a real band, she asked me what he meant when Mark Farner made a reference to marijuana, and the oppressive use of the law against marijuana smokers. (in the song "Inside Looking Out") i explained to her that he was talkin' about how it's wrong to put people in jail for smokin' pot.  i explained to her that it's worse for you(for a million reasons) to eat at Mc Donalds  than it is to smoke pot.  The establishment is built on lies and i do try to convey this to my daughter.  But i try to be very careful and only give her what she can handle.  i try to show her the contexts of the religious symbols, show her the different views.  But i don' want to confuse her, i jus' want her to be able to see the wide patterns in life.

 i have suggested to her that she question authority.  Ask yourself:  What are their motives ??   :smile:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
A General Question to Those With Children
« Reply #9 on: November 07, 2005, 02:32:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-11-07 11:24:00, Anonymous wrote:

"
Quote

On 2005-11-07 10:07:00, Anonymous wrote:


"
Quote


On 2005-11-07 10:04:00, starry-eyed pirate wrote:



"Yeah."




Seriously, do you express your views to them or are they too young still?  I'm not judging just curious."




some of each.  Once when my daughter, she's 10 now, and i were listening to some live Grand Funk RR, which is a real band, she asked me what he meant when Mark Farner made a reference to marijuana, and the oppressive use of the law against marijuana smokers. (in the song "Inside Looking Out") i explained to her that he was talkin' about how it's wrong to put people in jail for smokin' pot.  i explained to her that it's worse for you(for a million reasons) to eat at Mc Donalds  than it is to smoke pot.  The establishment is built on lies and i do try to convey this to my daughter.  But i try to be very careful and only give her what she can handle.  i try to show her the contexts of the religious symbols, show her the different views.  But i don' want to confuse her, i jus' want her to be able to see the wide patterns in life.



 i have suggested to her that she question authority.  Ask yourself:  What are their motives ??   :smile: "


Is she to be respectful while questioning authority or if she doesn't agree with something or someone is she to simply defy?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
A General Question to Those With Children
« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2005, 02:35:00 PM »
Teach her to defy authority.  They allow mere "questioning" as sort of a release valve, they pretend to encourage "dissenting points of view".  Read Noam Chomsky to find out how they control the scope of debate.  Defy authority---it's never done anything to help you anyway.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Carmel

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 954
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • View Profile
A General Question to Those With Children
« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2005, 02:39:00 PM »
I dunno, I have one child now....my daughter passed away when she was 5 years old, so we never really addressed it....however, I do often think about how I am going to handle this type of conversation.

I think firstly, being open and honest about it is mandatory.  Answer questions objectively,and then proffer your own moral ethic or value to the explaination as an example of a viewpoint that can be discussed or questioned as well.

Secondly, the difference between being honest and informative can get clouded when your goal is to actually prevent all type of experimentation. i.e., Pot is not an addictive substance, and the fact that is illegal should be challenged, etc. BUT SO HELP ME IF I EVER CATCH YOU SMOKING IT ILL GROUND YOU FOR THE REST OF YOUR NATURAL LIFE.  

My opinion is that its not unlike telling your toddler NOT to touch the stove, because if you make it forbidden....the very first thing they are going to do is run over and touch it.

Kids need to feel empowered to make their own judgement, and if they trust you and know they have your support....well, screwing around just doesnt hold as much enticement to them.

I want my kid to know that no matter what, his own saftey and health is paramount....and if he is going to mess with something, he needs to have enough brains to consider the risks. And he needs to know who to call if something goes wrong.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
...hands went up and people hit the floor, he wasted two kids that ran for the door....."
-Beastie Boys, Paul Revere

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
A General Question to Those With Children
« Reply #12 on: November 07, 2005, 02:58:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-11-07 11:39:00, Carmel wrote:

"I dunno, I have one child now....my daughter passed away when she was 5 years old, so we never really addressed it....however, I do often think about how I am going to handle this type of conversation.



I think firstly, being open and honest about it is mandatory.  Answer questions objectively,and then proffer your own moral ethic or value to the explaination as an example of a viewpoint that can be discussed or questioned as well.



Secondly, the difference between being honest and informative can get clouded when your goal is to actually prevent all type of experimentation. i.e., Pot is not an addictive substance, and the fact that is illegal should be challenged, etc. BUT SO HELP ME IF I EVER CATCH YOU SMOKING IT ILL GROUND YOU FOR THE REST OF YOUR NATURAL LIFE.  



My opinion is that its not unlike telling your toddler NOT to touch the stove, because if you make it forbidden....the very first thing they are going to do is run over and touch it.



Kids need to feel empowered to make their own judgement, and if they trust you and know they have your support....well, screwing around just doesnt hold as much enticement to them.



I want my kid to know that no matter what, his own saftey and health is paramount....and if he is going to mess with something, he needs to have enough brains to consider the risks. And he needs to know who to call if something goes wrong.







  "


 This is exactly how I feel.  I have my opinions, of course, about drugs.  I no longer use them, but I did and do not want to conceal that from my kids when the subject is brought up.  But, contrary to some opinions expressed here, there are extremely dangerous drugs out there that even in experimental use can be deadly.  That's just a fact and, as you said, kids need to be aware of that and have the basic common sense to hopefully avoid those things.  I know, even possessing the common sense doesn't mean they'll use it, but you hope they will.


I do not think it is wise to teach my child to defy everything because there is a parental feeling "the world is out to get you" as was expresses elsewhere in this thread.  I think this creates a paranoid personality and polarizes one from society.  And yes, I believe we should strive to be a part of a society and not in a constant war with self-perceived enmemies. Just my opinion.

Carmel, I'm sorry for your loss.  I cannot imagine the pain you feel.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Carmel

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 954
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • View Profile
A General Question to Those With Children
« Reply #13 on: November 07, 2005, 03:44:00 PM »
[/quote]
But, contrary to some opinions expressed here, there are extremely dangerous drugs out there that even in experimental use can be deadly.  That's just a fact and, as you said, kids need to be aware of that and have the basic common sense to hopefully avoid those things.
[/quote]



Well, there are quite a few extremely dangerous things in life that can be deadly with only experimental use.  Example: Getting in your car and driving to the grocery store.

The reality is, there are 1001 LEGAL ways to get killed that dont involved altering your mind.  Dont make a special exception for drugs based on a lingering, programmed idea about them being extra dangerous, its propoganda.

There are guys in motocross who spend their lives experimenting with stunts that can be deadly.  You dont see society putting them in jail, you see them on ESPN.

Make sure your perspective is objective.

[ This Message was edited by: Carmel on 2005-11-07 12:44 ][ This Message was edited by: Carmel on 2005-11-07 12:45 ][ This Message was edited by: Carmel on 2005-11-07 12:46 ]
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
...hands went up and people hit the floor, he wasted two kids that ran for the door....."
-Beastie Boys, Paul Revere

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
A General Question to Those With Children
« Reply #14 on: November 07, 2005, 03:45:00 PM »
Good point, Carmel.

yer pal,

RTP2k3
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »