What happened to Bob Lichfield?

[BuzzKill]

CCM'89 - you don't have to be afraid to talk with Jeff if you want to. He is not a bad guy. He doesn't want to rattle Susan's cage - and this does seem to fly in the face of his objectives - but it doesn't make him a bad guy. A little conflicted maybe. . .

Also, the same can be said of filing a report with ISAC about your experience. There is no reason to be afraid. No one is going to come after you, and you are hardly alone.

It is important for people like yourself to speak out in meaningful ways. I wish you would call or write ISAC. If you feel threatened, you could ask that things be kept in confidence. I think in time you'll see the risk is exaggerated in your mind and I hope you will want to make a more formal statement - but either way - I do hope you will contact ISAC.

Take the time to look over their site, and read some of the other student's statements. This might help you feel less alone. Read over the wwasp report and the Tranquility Bay report - both have many student (as well as parent) accounts. I really think you would find yourself empowered, if you read these other's accounts.

[Devlin]

On 2005-10-16 13:29:00, BuzzKill wrote:

"CCM'89 - you don't have to be afraid to talk with Jeff if you want to. He is not a bad guy. He doesn't want to rattle Susan's cage - and this does seem to fly in the face of his objectives - but it doesn't make him a bad guy. A little conflicted maybe. . .

what is Mr. Berrymans objectives?

Gaining their trust by saying bad things about WWASP?

Then make money off sue and PURE from program referals? Like sending kids to abusive programs like Whitmore?

Suckering desperate parents?

[Anonymous]

CCM girl this is another attempt of WWASPIES and others with a financial agenda to derail the main point of this thread. This thread is about Cross Creek, not PURE, Jeff, etc?.

CCM girl I think the majority of people here would tell you, you can trust ISAC.

The best thing to do is to contact as many media organizations as you can. If you?re concerned about your safety, at least this way your name is out in the open.

PS ? Anyone who replies to the PURE BS in non PURE related threads is just trying to mix things up and change the topic. If you have issues with Jeff or PURE START A NEW THREAD

[Anonymous]

On 2005-10-16 11:49:00, CCM girl 1989 wrote:

"Listen here, if anyone can prove to me that Jeff Berryman is no better then WWASPS........then I would love to hear it. Show me proof!"

Not sure if this is "proof." But it's excerpts from a court of law.  

http://wwaspsrebuttal.com/jeff_b.html

[AtomicAnt]

The part about most people being ignorant of these programs is true. I find the same thing. Most people have never heard of Straight, or WWASP. Many people I talk to don't believe me when I attempt to explain it. Some who do believe me don't care because they think the kids deserve it.

I suppose you could argue that reasonable explanation might convince parents to examine the industry more than confrontation, but my experience here says that is not true. In every instance that I have seen, Posters faced with reasonable explanations or clear evidence will deflect the issues, ignore them and question something else, or just say we are all liars.

A parent who is really interested in this topic would only use this forum as springboard to direct them to ISAC or to the many news articles that question the practices of these organizations. They would have to make up their own minds based on what they find.

[Anonymous]

On 2005-10-16 14:39:00, Anonymous wrote:

"

On 2005-10-16 11:49:00, CCM girl 1989 wrote:


"Listen here, if anyone can prove to me that Jeff Berryman is no better then WWASPS........then I would love to hear it. Show me proof!"

Not sure if this is "proof." But it's excerpts from a court of law.  



http://wwaspsrebuttal.com/jeff_b.html

"

wwasprebuttal is a WWASPie propaganda site, full of lies and deception, just like their marketing brochures.

[Anonymous]

On 2005-10-16 13:29:00, BuzzKill wrote:

"CCM'89 - you don't have to be afraid to talk with Jeff if you want to. He is not a bad guy. He doesn't want to rattle Susan's cage - and this does seem to fly in the face of his objectives - but it doesn't make him a bad guy. A little conflicted maybe. . .



Also, the same can be said of filing a report with ISAC about your experience. There is no reason to be afraid. No one is going to come after you, and you are hardly alone.



It is important for people like yourself to speak out in meaningful ways. I wish you would call or write ISAC. If you feel threatened, you could ask that things be kept in confidence. I think in time you'll see the risk is exaggerated in your mind and I hope you will want to make a more formal statement - but either way - I do hope you will contact ISAC.



Take the time to look over their site, and read some of the other student's statements. This might help you feel less alone. Read over the wwasp report and the Tranquility Bay report - both have many student (as well as parent) accounts. I really think you would find yourself empowered, if you read these other's accounts."

Jeff Berryman needs to speak for himself, BK. Why he ever get involved with PURE and Sue Scheff is beyond me.  She is a program referral service, not a children's rights advocate or activist, as Berryman likes to call himself.

Ooops, you already knew that ... as one of the original PURE defenders, right?  Good Lord, what's it gonna take to wake the rest of 'em up?

 :rofl:

[Anonymous]

I call Bullshit.

Whitmore is under investigation.  The owner charged with child abuse and hazing.  PURE referred (maybe still does) to Whitmore.

Anything on PURE's website to broaden parent awarenss about the issues surrounding Whitmore Academy (e.g. news articles in the SLT, Deseret News, etc)?

What about letters from ex-Whitmore parents and students?  Links to ISAC where these documents can be read?  

Anything at all?

 :silly:

[Anonymous]

Just wondering if anyone sees any problem with people sharing their stories, etc., with ISAC while they are being sued by WWASP.

By the way, anyone know how many people are being sued by WWASP right now, and why?

[Antigen]

Did you have any problem using my server while I was under suit by PURE?

Ga' `head, answer... I dare ya!

I have found Christian dogma unintelligible. Early in life, I absenteed myself from Christian assemblies.
--Benjamin Franklin, American Founding Father and inventor

[BuzzKill]

ISAC is not being sued by WWASP.

Bob Lichfield is suing them all by himself for interferring with his purchase of the Kemper Academy in Missouri.

I see no problem with anyone giving a statment to ISAC as a result; in fact, I hope more and more will do so.

[Anonymous]

On 2005-10-16 18:10:00, BuzzKill wrote:

"ISAC is not being sued by WWASP.



Bob Lichfield is suing them all by himself for interferring with his purchase of the Kemper Academy in Missouri.



I see no problem with anyone giving a statment to ISAC as a result; in fact, I hope more and more will do so.













"

Okay, do I have this right?

WWASPS (Bob Litchfield) sued ISAC and PURE (Sue Scheff) sued FORNITS?

If so, then would someone please explain to us what the hell the difference is between these two outfits (WWASPS and PURE)?

 :roll:

[Anonymous]

WWASPS is a company that oversees several behavior modification and residential programs.

PURE is a referral service - meaning they refer parents to these type of schools.  They do not refer to WWASPS because there's no monetary compensation to do so for them or ANY Educational Consultant.  That's why you won't get them to refer you to WWASPS. Regardless of what you hear, that is the only reason they don't refer to any WWASPS school or program.

[CCM girl 1989]

I remember what it was like 15 years ago when I had nobody to turn to. Being at Cross Creek was so hard for me, I had no voice, nobody believed me about anything. I hate the fact that the majority of people if not all people have no idea where I am coming from. My husband is wondering why I even care, and I should just put this all behind me. Nobody knows until you are locked up in one of these places, and the days go by sooooo slowly. Look, I am 32 years old. I thought at the age of 24 I was done with all this (that's my guesstimate when I first let go, now it has come back). Well, I gave it a lot of time, ,and energy back in the day. Nobody fought for me, I didn't have people like you on my side. Had I had the support that's so obviously there for teens now, I would have taken these assholes down a long time ago. I am here to say THINK TWICE BEFORE SENDING YOUR CHILDREN TO ANY OF THESE WWASPS PROGRAMS. Seriously, when I was there they hired just anyone off the street. The only person that had any kind of degree around there was your therapist who you saw once a week. These houseparents were young,and had no experience with kids. Lately, I have felt horrible. All these kids, who like me didn't want to be sent away. It wasn't by choice. I know my parents made some very poor decisions. The decision of sending me to Cross Creek ranks # 1 on the list. Still after all these years, my Dad says how sorry he is. My Dad is 85 years old, and loves watching Fox News. There has been reports on WWASPS facilities, and now he realizes that I was telling the truth. Especially, when I am able to tell him everything today just the way I did all those years ago. It's amazing, I remember things as if it were only yesterday. You always remember the truth, because you experienced it. Lies get washed away. I need to know why this has gone so far? Why after all these years is it still happening? Fifteen years later I do a "google search" and I am horrified. I thought having one school was bad enough........but knowing that they've multiplied like this? How did this happen? I should have done something while I had the chance. With the financial momentum they have, they get squashed, then they re-invent themselves. I want to know you WWASPS, how do you wake up everyday and look at yourselves in the mirror?

[Anonymous]

On 2005-10-16 20:47:00, CCM girl 1989 wrote:

"I remember what it was like 15 years ago when I had nobody to turn to. Being at Cross Creek was so hard for me, I had no voice, nobody believed me about anything. I hate the fact that the majority of people if not all people have no idea where I am coming from. My husband is wondering why I even care, and I should just put this all behind me. Nobody knows until you are locked up in one of these places, and the days go by sooooo slowly. Look, I am 32 years old. I thought at the age of 24 I was done with all this (that's my guesstimate when I first let go, now it has come back). Well, I gave it a lot of time, ,and energy back in the day. Nobody fought for me, I didn't have people like you on my side. Had I had the support that's so obviously there for teens now, I would have taken these assholes down a long time ago. I am here to say THINK TWICE BEFORE SENDING YOUR CHILDREN TO ANY OF THESE WWASPS PROGRAMS. Seriously, when I was there they hired just anyone off the street. The only person that had any kind of degree around there was your therapist who you saw once a week. These houseparents were young,and had no experience with kids. Lately, I have felt horrible. All these kids, who like me didn't want to be sent away. It wasn't by choice. I know my parents made some very poor decisions. The decision of sending me to Cross Creek ranks # 1 on the list. Still after all these years, my Dad says how sorry he is. My Dad is 85 years old, and loves watching Fox News. There has been reports on WWASPS facilities, and now he realizes that I was telling the truth. Especially, when I am able to tell him everything today just the way I did all those years ago. It's amazing, I remember things as if it were only yesterday. You always remember the truth, because you experienced it. Lies get washed away. I need to know why this has gone so far? Why after all these years is it still happening? Fifteen years later I do a "google search" and I am horrified. I thought having one school was bad enough........but knowing that they've multiplied like this? How did this happen? I should have done something while I had the chance. With the financial momentum they have, they get squashed, then they re-invent themselves. I want to know you WWASPS, how do you wake up everyday and look at yourselves in the mirror?"

Part of the reason it's gotten this far, is because of struggling parents who look to these programs as some sort of magic bullet (pill) to cure their failure as a parent.

See the article on TAUSA about WHO'S CRISIS IS THIS, ANYWAY?

http://www.teenadvocatesusa.org

 :wave: