Author Topic: Anchor Academy for Boys in Havre, Montana.  (Read 67794 times)

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Offline corecrash

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« Reply #330 on: January 17, 2006, 06:51:00 PM »
This is an old post, but wow you are absolutely wrong. My wife works for child protective services. If a parent fails to keep their kid at home, make them go to school, or keep them out of trouble the kid will be taken away put in a program of the states choice, including boot camps, and you will find yourself going to parenting class and paying child support to the state. If you fail, you will go to jail. If you do not believe this, ask any parent involved with the system due to letting their teen find their own way.


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On 2005-10-15 07:29:00, AtomicAnt wrote:

"
Quote

On 2005-10-15 06:36:00, Anonymous wrote:


"I feel quite sure that pastor and dad do not want children abused.  And you are right.  Laws need to be changed.  Especially the laws that do not allow parents to legallly let their teenager suffer the natural consequences of their behavior.  If a child runs and a parent doesn't use all possible resources to find him and keep him at home, the parent is charged with abandonment, no matter how badly the teen says he doesn't want to be home and follow the rules.  Parents have to "use every resource" to protect the child by law.  Too often the only resource left is a program.  It is not legal to let a kid hit rock bottom on their own and then make a decision if they want their parents help or not.  Parents HAVE to stop the runaway. Kids know this.  Yes...Laws MUST be changed, not only to protect the kids, but to help the kids learn from their own mistakes and to protect the parents that would like to let their child learn from life's experiences."




Either I missed the memo, or this is bullshit.



In many states, running away is no longer considered a criminal act. In some States, harboring a runaway is no longer a crime provided you do not deny the child is with you to law enforcement or parents; then it becomes kidnapping.



I know parents of run away kids here who have informed me that it can be legally difficult to force the child to return home. If the legal system gets involved in at all, Family Services and Family Court determine the child's fate, not the parents.



Go the Covenant House website and you will find stories about 'throw away' teenagers whose families refuse to allow them to return home. There is no mention of legal action against these parents."
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Offline corecrash

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« Reply #331 on: January 17, 2006, 10:23:00 PM »
We just got off the phone with our son about 5 minutes ago. We told him about this forum and asked him, do you know that you can come home anytime you want without any form of consequence? He said he did know and he wanted to stay and graduate. I am sure you will say that call was monitored and he was forced to say something, but I know it is not monitored because we have had conversations about him coming home before. We had conversations when he was on a staff cell phone with no possibility of monitoring.

Tonight, He was proud because he passed his algebra test. Our son has struggled with Algebra since he was first introduced to it. None of the educated professionals would lift a hand to help him, except one extraordinary teacher. He cried and pleaded not to have to take it but he finally overcame and was successful. He is excited that he is going to graduate from high school and expressed that he thought he would never make it before Anchor. Wow, the abuse and evil is so pervasive there.

I also asked him what Red Shirting was. It does not exist there any longer. He did tell me that from what he was told it was for kids that continuously break major rules like stealing and threatening.

In addition, it is interesting to know that our son informed us tonight that Eric M. is now in prison. Of course, I can hear the masses say that Anchor is bad and put Eric M. in prison because of the abuse; but it shows that Anchor is not for everyone and not everyone that the "Educated Professionals" help take advantage of the situation and come out on top.

Our son indicated that the majority of kids completely over exaggerate and we all know that is true, our son over exaggerated way before Anchor and now admits it and has come forward with what actually happened.

Nevertheless, I bet I just wasted 10 minutes of my time because you will find some illogical unproven reason why it is not a valid example. He is a Stepford kid, he has been brainwashed. Well all I can say is that I'm proud of him and I'm proud that he takes pride in his accomplishments of getting a car, yes at Anchor he is buying a car and received his drivers license about a year ago. Is that abusive?

I am proud that he finally, after many years, has beaten algebra! I can hear the sense of accomplishment in his voice! He has more to go, but I know he can do it.

And that?s all I have to say about that.
[ This Message was edited by: corecrash on 2006-01-17 19:24 ][ This Message was edited by: corecrash on 2006-01-17 19:25 ]
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #332 on: January 17, 2006, 10:35:00 PM »
:wstupid:  :wave:  :razz:
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Offline corecrash

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« Reply #333 on: January 17, 2006, 10:46:00 PM »
Quote

So that's my story of how I was held captive and tortured by Republicans for two years. Yeah, I know your story. Not the specific details, but the script is as old as the hills and just as dusty. You started out concerned for your son and took him for evaluation. Through mystical, magical expertise in taming the wild teenager monster, they confirmed your worst fears.



The trouble is, these are no experts and their wild tales of devil worshiping dangerous monsters have about as much veracity as James Frey's million little lies.




That is not even close to our story. Furthermore, we were never told that he would fall into devil worship etc. You are way off base. That is ok; you could not know my situation.

I am very sorry that you endured what you did for no reason. I would think it very rare that a straight A student without a trace of defiant behavior would find themselves in a behavior modification facility. Maybe it is not rare. Your mother sounds like a lazy tramp that only wanted to get rid of you for her benefit. That is very sad and I am glad you have come out of it ok.
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Offline WWFSMD

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« Reply #334 on: January 17, 2006, 10:55:00 PM »
Quote
On 2006-01-17 19:46:00, corecrash wrote:

 I would think it very rare that a straight A student without a trace of defiant behavior would find themselves in a behavior modification facility. Maybe it is not rare.


Trust me, its not.  I was in the same place as Antigen and I'd say that the majority (98%) were pretty typical teens that were unlucky enough to have parents that bought into the whole fear mongering bullshit that was thrown at them.  Facts are, yes FACTS, that most kids will grow out of whatever behavior is freaking out the grown-ups.  I was told that all my pre-program friends were the unlucky ones who's parents didn't care enough about them to put them somewhere where they could get the "help" they needed.  All those kids were gonna DIE without the programs divine intervention.  They're all fine and I'm stuck with nightmares and a family that has been in shambles for over 20 years (my parents and myself.....my husband and kids are fine now that I got them away from the lunatic fringe).  You can't even yet fathom the damage you're doing to the relationship between you and your son.

I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me.  
-- Hunter S. Thompson

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Offline AtomicAnt

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« Reply #335 on: January 18, 2006, 07:32:00 AM »
Quote
This is an old post, but wow you are absolutely wrong. My wife works for child protective services. If a parent fails to keep their kid at home, make them go to school, or keep them out of trouble the kid will be taken away put in a program of the states choice, including boot camps, and you will find yourself going to parenting class and paying child support to the state. If you fail, you will go to jail. If you do not believe this, ask any parent involved with the system due to letting their teen find their own way.


I'll look into it further. My post came only from Internet research, but I have met some people that work in the Juvenile Justice system of my State. I'll check with them. Of course, the point is so old, I can't remember the context of discussion.

So far, I found wide variations between States. Some States require parental permission before Police can take a runaway into custody. Some States only cover runaways if they are 15 and under. Some say that the teen can only be apprehended if they have violated some statute such as curfew or truancy. In general, Police are reluctant to take teens into custody unless they listed as missing because they don't want to go through the vague legal hassles. It is all very vague, in general.

Teen shelters operate in a gray area of the law. It often isn't clear if the law requires them to notify parents or not. It also isn't clear if it is legal for them to shelter and aid runaways. Because of the services they provide, law enforcement does not normally interfere.
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Offline corecrash

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« Reply #336 on: January 18, 2006, 08:11:00 AM »
I do understand your point and I do believe that abuse will damage a child. We have diverged to many different subjects, notably Christianity and Drug and criminal reform.

It still stands that the subject of this forum is if Dennis McElwrath abuses the teenagers at Anchor Academy.

It is my conclusion from reading this entire forum, talking to my son, and researching the little information available on Anchor and Dennis, that he does not abuse those boys.

The word abuse carries with it certain connotations. An abuser has certain motivations that make the abusers actions abusive. That is why extreme liberals claim having a kid do dishes or shovel the snow is abuse, if it's not without pay. Well, my household is indicative of a social system and you must put in and take out. Doing chores is putting in and doing your part and it's not abuse. It also teaches other important life skills.

When I was a child, I played football and I was made to run, do push-ups, leg lifts, etc. This according to you is abuse and I certainly hated it! I wanted to quit, I thought it was unfair and at 13 years old I thought it was abusive. However, my coach?s motivation was to strengthen my body so that I would not get injured during a game. It was also a method to build character and leadership abilities. That was not abuse.

At 15, I wrestled and was encouraged to limit our food intake to make weight. We ran with layers of clothes on to drain our body of fluid to lose that one last pound. This taught tenacity and perseverance. Was the coach abusing us? No, at the time I hated it and wanted to quit, it taught me a lot and I did not die.

You all can call my a psycho I don't care but I guess I'm with the other few million psychos, football coaches, wrestling coaches, drill sergeants, high school teachers, prison wardens, and drug counselors.

It will be interesting to see the next wave of intelligent debating skills laden with name-calling and abusive language. :smile: Then some of you have the gall to wonder why you found yourself in a place you would rather not be and to this day continue to blame everyone else in society for your problems.



Quote
On 2006-01-17 19:55:00, WWFSMD wrote:

"
Quote

On 2006-01-17 19:46:00, corecrash wrote:


 I would think it very rare that a straight A student without a trace of defiant behavior would find themselves in a behavior modification facility. Maybe it is not rare.



Trust me, its not.  I was in the same place as Antigen and I'd say that the majority (98%) were pretty typical teens that were unlucky enough to have parents that bought into the whole fear mongering bullshit that was thrown at them.  Facts are, yes FACTS, that most kids will grow out of whatever behavior is freaking out the grown-ups.  I was told that all my pre-program friends were the unlucky ones who's parents didn't care enough about them to put them somewhere where they could get the "help" they needed.  All those kids were gonna DIE without the programs divine intervention.  They're all fine and I'm stuck with nightmares and a family that has been in shambles for over 20 years (my parents and myself.....my husband and kids are fine now that I got them away from the lunatic fringe).  You can't even yet fathom the damage you're doing to the relationship between you and your son.

I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me.  
-- Hunter S. Thompson


"
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Offline corecrash

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« Reply #337 on: January 18, 2006, 08:17:00 AM »
Good point. Some states probably do differ. I can only draw from what my wife has experienced. The state I live pretty much doesn't need permission to do anything. I've seen cases where the child is taken for very small reason. Skipping school is a big one here.

Shelters are required to notify the parents though. It's unfortunate that once a child is in the system, going to program and to court, it seems to begin a downward spiral for the majority. That's not to say that some kids come out of it unscathed.

Quote
On 2006-01-18 04:32:00, AtomicAnt wrote:

"
Quote

This is an old post, but wow you are absolutely wrong. My wife works for child protective services. If a parent fails to keep their kid at home, make them go to school, or keep them out of trouble the kid will be taken away put in a program of the states choice, including boot camps, and you will find yourself going to parenting class and paying child support to the state. If you fail, you will go to jail. If you do not believe this, ask any parent involved with the system due to letting their teen find their own way.




I'll look into it further. My post came only from Internet research, but I have met some people that work in the Juvenile Justice system of my State. I'll check with them. Of course, the point is so old, I can't remember the context of discussion.



So far, I found wide variations between States. Some States require parental permission before Police can take a runaway into custody. Some States only cover runaways if they are 15 and under. Some say that the teen can only be apprehended if they have violated some statute such as curfew or truancy. In general, Police are reluctant to take teens into custody unless they listed as missing because they don't want to go through the vague legal hassles. It is all very vague, in general.



Teen shelters operate in a gray area of the law. It often isn't clear if the law requires them to notify parents or not. It also isn't clear if it is legal for them to shelter and aid runaways. Because of the services they provide, law enforcement does not normally interfere."
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #338 on: January 18, 2006, 08:36:00 AM »
My question to you again Corecrash: if you are so SURE everything is just so wonderful at Anchor Academy--why are you here posting? You sure aren't going to convince any of us to send our sons to Anchor. What's your point? We've done the research and we know all we need to know about Brother Dennis and his connections to two of the most abusive facilities in this industry. You're the one with a son there, not us!
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Offline WWFSMD

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« Reply #339 on: January 18, 2006, 08:45:00 AM »
Quote
On 2006-01-18 05:11:00, corecrash wrote:

"I do understand your point and I do believe that abuse will damage a child. We have diverged to many different subjects, notably Christianity and Drug and criminal reform.

Its kind of hard to avoid when talking about these places.

Quote
It still stands that the subject of this forum is if Dennis McElwrath abuses the teenagers at Anchor Academy.

There's plenty of abuse reported at Roloff's from which I understand Anchor came from as well as Dennis.  That would be scary enough for me.

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When I was a child, I played football and I was made to run, do push-ups, leg lifts, etc. This according to you is abuse

You quoted my text so I'm assuming you're speaking to me.  Where did I ever say that physical exercise in THAT context is abuse?


Quote
and I certainly hated it! I wanted to quit, I thought it was unfair and at 13 years old I thought it was abusive. However, my coach?s motivation was to strengthen my body so that I would not get injured during a game. It was also a method to build character and leadership abilities. That was not abuse.



At 15, I wrestled and was encouraged to limit our food intake to make weight. We ran with layers of clothes on to drain our body of fluid to lose that one last pound. This taught tenacity and perseverance. Was the coach abusing us? No, at the time I hated it and wanted to quit, it taught me a lot and I did not die.

This argument holds no water.  Those were choices that you made to enter into sports.  You were aware that there would be difficult physical training involved.  I also don't know of many coaches that would keep their jobs for long if humiliation, withholding of food as punishment[/b], forced confession etc. were part of their training routine.



Quote
It will be interesting to see the next wave of intelligent debating skills laden with name-calling and abusive language. :smile: Then some of you have the gall to wonder why you found yourself in a place you would rather not be and to this day continue to blame everyone else in society for your problems.


My you're sancitmonious this morning!  I don't think I've called you any names.  ARe you saying that because kids call people names and use abusive language that they deserve to be locked  away in one of these "camps"??  I don't blame everyone in society for my "problems".  The only "problem" I blame my program for is tearing apart my family and trying to break my spirit at such a young age.  I think I've done pretty well to come out of that with my sanity somewhat intact.

Arms in the hands of citizens [may] be used at individual discretion...in private self-defense...
-- John Adams, (1788)

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Offline corecrash

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« Reply #340 on: January 18, 2006, 09:57:00 AM »
Nahh..I just pressed the quote button but it was not specifically to you. You make more sense than anyone else on the forum, well recent posts that is. You have made me think more than anyone else.

You are right in that I had a choice in my participation.

Not directed to you, but when I read posts from adults that are survivors of these places and the posts amount to nothing more than name-calling and profanity, you really have to wonder what else they were/are into. Maybe nothing, but a critical thinking individual cannot help but wonder what kind of person that is.

I have a small pool of experiences compared to the set of possible life experiences. Those experiences include watching people from my High School, which was considered a good school in the 80?s kill themselves, fall into addiction and eventually prison, become thieves, or just generally live a difficult life. Maybe they are happy but they give no indication of it.

It sounds like we take a risk no matter what we do as a parent. The parents of one of my high school friends took the approach to let him come out of it on is own. He died of a heart attack while freebasing cocaine when he was 20 years old. My biological father took the approach to let my brother Chris do what he needed to do and come out of it on his own. Chris is in prison for the next 10 years for armed assault and attempted murder. My ex-girlfriend?s father felt that it was wise and an avenue for closeness to allow his daughter to smoke pot. He thought it would curb her curiosity and she would get over it. Today, 20 years later, she is held hostage by addiction to painkillers and marijuana. She is in and out of trouble with the authorities for theft, drug possession, and she cannot ever have a real relationship with anyone because they end up being an avenue for drug procurement.

That is only 3 of the total population, and certainly not all the examples I've seen, but those are pretty real and risky chances just as tough love programs appear to be risky from what I'm reading in these forums. I think personally I would rather take a chance on the tough love side and pay for counseling in the end because the educated professionals find it hard to help those that are dead.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #341 on: January 18, 2006, 10:05:00 AM »
Quote
On 2006-01-18 05:36:00, Anonymous wrote:

"My question to you again Corecrash: if you are so SURE everything is just so wonderful at Anchor Academy--why are you here posting? You sure aren't going to convince any of us to send our sons to Anchor. What's your point? We've done the research and we know all we need to know about Brother Dennis and his connections to two of the most abusive facilities in this industry. You're the one with a son there, not us!"


 :question:
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Offline corecrash

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« Reply #342 on: January 18, 2006, 10:22:00 AM »
Yea, I'm not going to answer your question because I answered it in previous posts and it's implied in the totality of my posts.


Quote
On 2006-01-18 07:05:00, Anonymous wrote:

"
Quote

On 2006-01-18 05:36:00, Anonymous wrote:


"My question to you again Corecrash: if you are so SURE everything is just so wonderful at Anchor Academy--why are you here posting? You sure aren't going to convince any of us to send our sons to Anchor. What's your point? We've done the research and we know all we need to know about Brother Dennis and his connections to two of the most abusive facilities in this industry. You're the one with a son there, not us!"




 :question: "
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« Reply #343 on: January 18, 2006, 10:44:00 AM »
Quote
On 2006-01-18 06:57:00, corecrash wrote:


You are right in that I had a choice in my participation.

You also didn't have to endure forced confession to your team, humiliation and degredation to the point of anihilation of your spirit.  


Quote
Not directed to you, but when I read posts from adults that are survivors of these places and the posts amount to nothing more than name-calling and profanity, you really have to wonder what else they were/are into. Maybe nothing, but a critical thinking individual cannot help but wonder what kind of person that is.

Yeah, its an unfortunate side effect of being raised in one of those places.  

Quote
I have a small pool of experiences compared to the set of possible life experiences. Those experiences include watching people from my High School, which was considered a good school in the 80?s kill themselves, fall into addiction and eventually prison, become thieves, or just generally live a difficult life. Maybe they are happy but they give no indication of it.

Yeah, I think we've all known people like that.  I'm not understanding the point you're trying to make here.  These places are good and righteous because you know some people who screwed up their lives?


Quote
It sounds like we take a risk no matter what we do as a parent. The parents of one of my high school friends took the approach to let him come out of it on is own. He died of a heart attack while freebasing cocaine when he was 20 years old. My biological father took the approach to let my brother Chris do what he needed to do and come out of it on his own. Chris is in prison for the next 10 years for armed assault and attempted murder. My ex-girlfriend?s father felt that it was wise and an avenue for closeness to allow his daughter to smoke pot. He thought it would curb her curiosity and she would get over it. Today, 20 years later, she is held hostage by addiction to painkillers and marijuana. She is in and out of trouble with the authorities for theft, drug possession, and she cannot ever have a real relationship with anyone because they end up being an avenue for drug procurement.



That is only 3 of the total population, and certainly not all the examples I've seen, but those are pretty real and risky chances just as tough love programs appear to be risky from what I'm reading in these forums. I think personally I would rather take a chance on the tough love side and pay for counseling in the end because the educated professionals find it hard to help those that are dead.

"


Well, according to the place I was in (and its virtually identical to what I've read throughout these forums) all the kids I was hanging out with before going in were going to be dead, insane or in jail if they didn't get the programs special brand of "help".  Guess what?  They're all fine!  They all went on to live productive, fulfilling lives while I was struggling to pick up the pieces of my psyche that had been shattered to pieces.

Don't let your dogma run out in front of your karma.
--Anonymous

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Offline corecrash

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« Reply #344 on: January 18, 2006, 11:22:00 AM »
Quote

Yeah, its an unfortunate side effect of being raised in one of those places.  


It's not a side effect if the behavior was there before they attended ANY program be it faith based or goverment ran.
Quote

Yeah, I think we've all known people like that.  I'm not understanding the point you're trying to make here.  These places are good and righteous because you know some people who screwed up their lives?




Remember, I'm not claiming ANY program is righteous. Every program in this country is only as good as the individual makes it. My son thrived at Anchor, others don't. Some thrive in drug rehab others rebell and use it as an excuse to plunge deeper into whatever they are into.

Quote

Well, according to the place I was in (and its virtually identical to what I've read throughout these forums) all the kids I was hanging out with before going in were going to be dead, insane or in jail if they didn't get the programs special brand of "help".  Guess what?  They're all fine!  They all went on to live productive, fulfilling lives while I was struggling to pick up the pieces of my psyche that had been shattered to pieces.


However, according to your viewpoint, which I do not believe is invalid, neither is mine, no one can succeed, and everyone is abused in these programs. According to my son and a few other people that post here, this is not true. However, when they do claim it is not true you label them as brain washed Stepford kids. You cannot discount the achievements of some by saying they are now part of the problem. Drug addicts do this when their using friend reforms and they can no longer count on them as a co-partier. That is from the mouth of an educated professional. Not me but a chemical dependency counselor we went to while our son was in drug rehab. Supported by the state, whom I might add, restrict phone calls from parents after the first 30 days and none for the first month. Note that every staff has a degree, and directors have a masters or PhD in their respective fields.

Therefore, if you can use a few people for your examples, then I can use a few for mine. Note I used words like "some" and phrases like "Only 3 of the total population.? I am indicating that my sample size is small. You have indicated that your sample size is drawn from the entire population.
[ This Message was edited by: corecrash on 2006-01-18 08:28 ]
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