Anchor Academy for Boys in Havre, Montana.

[Anonymous]

They should still be able to do so..

And, what if that 'state official' happened not to be christian and read from the Torah or Koran or some other religious text of their preference?

Even as a child I resented being forced to listen to the principal pray over the PA system.
Want to have a moment of silence, fine. And everyone can do as they choose.
That's not good enough for christian zealots. Always looking to cram it down someone's throat and further the notion of their 'superiority'.
Why is it so damned important for you (christians)to pray in public. I, and many others, aren't interested in your 'outloud' prayers.
Might kids have learned to read from the bible because that's the only book most families possessed?
Yikes.... the arrogance still gives me the willies.

[Helena Handbasket]

On 2005-10-25 07:57:00, Anonymous wrote:

"i just got back from the academy , was there visiting my grandson , i understand that the punishment for leaving the academy, or, running away, will cause the child to have to start all over again from week one. no matter how long he has already been there"

Ah... "Starting Over" - how familiar.  Funny how they can't leave when decide that place isn't for them.

Are there "phases" there as well?

[Helena Handbasket]

On 2005-10-25 09:58:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Red Shirt is a form of punisish, strong, prolonged punishment. Being on Red Shirt could last up to 2 months. The student is required to wear the "red shirt." The one on RED SHIRT is not allowed to be spoken to, looked at. RED SHIRT is supervised by the LEADERS who are in control of him (one or more students who have risen in RANK). RED SHIRT will be given prolonged, intense PT (physical training) to the point of extreme exhaustion. His "buttons will will pushed" until he reaches his breaking point, and when he DOES...and when he "strikes out at his tormentors," THEN he will be physically punished (attacked by these LEADERS). One the weekends, the RED SHIRT will be giving prolonged, meaninings physical tasks: like moving a pile of rocks; and then being made to move the pile of rocks BACK to the original spot. OR, he may be made to dig a huge hole with a spoon; to only be made to refill the hole with the spoon. All this activity will take place in the rain if raining. The RED SHIRT's diet will consist of Peanut Butter sandwiches and water. The whole point: TO BREAK HIM DOWN so he is ready to conform and be MOLDED!

What "rules" are broken to get on RED SHIRT?

Meaningless rules: not bowing his head during prayer. Getting too many "complaints" by the LEADER, and the LEADER'S rules are arbitrary, and subjective...not standard, written down universal rules set by the adult supervisor of the school.  All these "punishments" are usually not supervised by any adult. The LEADERS have free reign to mentally, emotionally, and physically punish the RED SHIRT at will."

Singling out and a version of "marathoning". They even propogated the PB&J Diet.  Hey, Pastor - you wanna tell us again that we don't know what we're talking about?

This is one sick place.

[tommyfromhyde1]

They have a something like that at Hyde. It's
called work crew.

The college idealists who fill the ranks of the environmental movement seem willing to do absolutely anything to save the biosphere, except take science courses and learn something about it.


--P.J. O'Rourke

[Helena Handbasket]

On 2005-10-25 11:13:00, tommyfromhyde1 wrote:

"They have a something like that at Hyde. It's

called work crew.

The college idealists who fill the ranks of the environmental movement seem willing to do absolutely anything to save the biosphere, except take science courses and learn something about it.


--P.J. O'Rourke

"

Same shit, different era.

[Anonymous]

Buzz,
Are you familiar with Wallbuilders?  It is a great site all about what you are saying.  Visit http://www.wallbuilders.org

[Anonymous]

Yeh, same methods, different terms. At HLA it's called 'restrictions'.

[BuzzKill]

An anon puts me in my place :wink:

///And, what if that 'state official' happened not to be christian and read from the Torah or Koran or some other religious text of their preference?

Even as a child I resented being forced to listen to the principal pray over the PA system.
Want to have a moment of silence, fine. And everyone can do as they choose.
That's not good enough for christian zealots. Always looking to cram it down someone's throat and further the notion of their 'superiority'.
Why is it so damned important for you (christians)to pray in public. I, and many others, aren't interested in your 'outloud' prayers.
Might kids have learned to read from the bible because that's the only book most families possessed? ///

OK - as far as I am concerned, the state official may pray as he wishes.
My personal believe is, that many of them have traditionally (and still do) prayed to Lucifer; rather than the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Altho, they Craftily hide this fact from their constituents.

My point is, that since the founding of this nation, prayer has had a place in government and governing.
Its only in the last few decades that any protest has been raised; and this talk of separating church and state took such a twist, as to make it unacceptable to do so - or to allow students to pray, or study the Bible in public school.

I am not advocating principals praying over the loud speaker (I myself never heard one do this) but that students be allowed to pray at graduation, or before meals, or before a game - as they so choose.

I am saying, the sate has no business telling them they may not, simply b/c they are in school or taking part in school activities.

The constitution, far from forbidding public school prayer, or Bible study, guarantees these rights.

I'm sorry you felt assaulted by the prayer at your school - but did it do you any harm? Really?

I have had to sit threw prayers made to the father and mother god (pure Luciferian paganism) and while I felt sad and aggrieved (as this took place in the Presbyterian church I had grown up in) it didn't hurt me any.

But all this is really beyond the scope of my argument - which is - these private teen programs have no right to function totally free of any state regulation. Because - there IS no wall of separation in the constitution.

The state may not close them down b/c they call themselves Christian (or whatever) but they may certainly close them down for fraud, or abuse and neglect; and if claiming to be a school, for failing to educate.

The Bible, BTW, is an extremely important aspect of Western culture; European and American History -  and one can not claim to be well educated with out knowing whats in it - weather or not they believe it.

[BuzzKill]

Oh - I meant to explain some of my own educational history - I had one teacher in High school, that was a which. She openly explained all about it and taught it in all her classes - no matter what the class was. I found her to be a major flake and avoided her classes - but lots of the kids loved her - b/c there was no way to fail her class - no matter what it was. Besides, she could be very entertaining - levitating her desk an all, like she was prone to do.

'Do you know what Mz Care did this morning', was a common subject in the smoking areas.

I also had several teachers with other "non-traditional" views, that they openly taught in class; for example, that Homosexuality was superior and preferable to Heterosexuality. This got wormed into a class on ancient history - and by one of my very favorite teachers. Still, I didn't feel the least bit tempted to try it.

None of this hurt me any, tho I disagreed strongly with it.
I should maybe stress, I would strongly protest such extremes in grade school; But in High school, most students are able to understand teachers are not always founts of wisdom; and that much that comes out of their mouths is just plain wrong. (snakes are not invertebrates for example)

The point being, if a teacher wants to talk about their faith, they should not be fired, or litigated into submission to PC rhetoric.

[Anonymous]

***My point is, that since the founding of this nation, prayer has had a place in government and governing.****

Don?t make it ?right?.
 
**(Its only in the last few decades that any protest has been raised; and this talk of separating church and state took such a twist, as to make it unacceptable to do so - or to allow students to pray, or study the Bible in public school. I am not advocating principals praying over the loud speaker (I myself never heard one do this) but that students be allowed to pray at graduation, or before meals, or before a game - as they so choose.***

Now that?s just silly. I attended three graduations last year and at all three someone (principal, valedictorian) prayed or made some reference to god.
Spoke with a young woman who was angry about the same things, AND that christianity was only studied/taught in the section on world religions. What? That?s not good enough? It?s school, not ?Sunday? school.
There?s not a damn thing stopping parents from teaching their kids about their preferred religion, or stopping kids from praying when and where they want. They just may not be allowed to do it out loud, at other?s expense, who may not pray or pray to another god. They may also not be allowed to pass out pens with scripture printed on them, or little bibles, or any other religious propaganda.

Why do they pray before games? Can?t they pray in silence or at home before the game? Is it written somewhere that their prayer must be outloud and witnessed by all present?

This same mother was most upset that her child could no longer celebrate Xmas or other religious holidays (AS IF THERE IS ONE) at school. No parties, no nativity scenes, etc.

Religion is a personal thing. It?s not about their prayers ?harming? me. It?s about the arrogance behind the act. And the total lack of acknowledgment of other religions, or lack thereof.

***The state may not close them down b/c they call themselves Christian (or whatever) but they may certainly close them down for fraud, or abuse and neglect; and if claiming to be a school, for failing to educate. ***

The state may not ?license and monitor? them if they call themselves christian, and that?s a big problem.

Might anyone who wants to talk about their religion, first ask their audience IF THEY ARE INTERESTED???
Personally, I'd be more interested in watching Ms Care levitate her desk than hearing a boring lecture on religion.

[Antigen]

Honestly, I think we went wrong with compulsory schooling. It's compulsory that we attend, force our kids to (unless we take advantage of recently created legal alternatives) and, most of all, that we ALL pay for it.

Now, there is just NO way that any such public institution can teach anything w/o crossing some of it's payors and consumers' sensibilities.

I say, do away w/ public schooling, quit taking our money for it and let us all educate ourselves and our kids as we see fit.

First management had plans and then strategic plans. Now we have vision, and we're only one small step from hallucination.
-- Ansley Throckmorton upon assuming the presidency of Bangor Theological Seminary in Bangor, Main per Information World 8-4-`97

[Anonymous]

Don't you believe the problem with doing away with complusory education might be that there would be lots and lots of kids in America who would wind up with NO EDUCATION WHATSOEVER? I could see that happening. Not all parents would be responsible enough to see to their children's education, you know?

[Antigen]

Well, you would think so. And, certainly, I thought so for all the years I sent my precious kids to the public indoctrination centers.

But history just doesn't bear it out. If compulsory public schooling is necessary to education, then the Renaissance could never have happened. But it did happen and, in fact, it started out as a rebellious, subversive movement against the church/governments of the time.

If people, left to their own care can't or would not be inclined to learn and improve themselves, how in the hell did us hillbillies over here turn back the mighty awsome Brittish empire? How come things didn't just fall apart in the aftermath? Instead, we excelled at everything that mattered; peace, prosperity, invention... hell, in the day when Mark Twain was deemed the most well loved man in the world, compulsory public education was not pervasive in this country. In those days, primary school boys saved their pennies to purchase tattered copies of Robert Louis Stevenson books to hide inside their readers. Try getting a college student today to even be able to comprehend that level of litterature.

There's a very good history of American schooling written by a well respected, two time NY teacher of the year. It's called The Underground History of American Education by John Taylor Gatto. Here's the main link:
http://www.johntaylorgatto.com/underground/toc1.htm

Here's the beginning of the chapters on pre-forced schooling and litteracy and competency.

http://www.johntaylorgatto.com/chapters/10a.htm

You're bound to get angry if you read this book. Probably first at the author for the harsh things he has to say about your profession and your devotion to it, then maybe at the scam that's been perpatrated on us all.

At the bottom of it, kids are born with as strong an appetite for knowledge and competency as for food, love and air. You don't have to force kids to learn useful things. In fact, one of the biggest crimes against children, in my view, is the way schooling teaches them to hate books! God, I'm so glad I never fell for that one! I already loved books and knew that all the adults in my life found them pleasurable, or at least useful.

Never in the history of any nation has an education system been so on the point of disintegration and decay as the education system in this country...We know that education in this country is as bad as it can be.  We know that it is old-fashioned, irrelevant, and not meaningful.
--U.S. Senator Abraham A. Ribicoff, 1970

_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
Drug war POW
Seed Chicklett `71 - `80
Straight, Sarasota
   10/80 - 10/82
Apostate 10/82 -
Anonymity Anonymous

[BuzzKill]

I agree Ginger.
Public school is designed to make children resist learning.
They are engineered to make the kids think reading is work.
The intent is to dumb down and degrade, so that the masses will accept mindless work and be content to spend their lives doing as they are told.
Its all part of the conspiracy . . .

Anon writes:
/// Personally, I'd be more interested in watching Ms Care levitate her desk than hearing a boring lecture on religion. ///

Ha - well me too!

But my point is, Mz Care can tell me I give off negative vibes and have a sick aura - And I can tell her there is no salvation apart from God's Son.

The US constitution protects us both - not just her.

[Anonymous]

***The US constitution protects us both - not just her.

Good point... but it wasn't the argument.

As 'paranoid' as some may perceive it... all the more reason to home school your younguns.
Just as in programs, parents have NO idea what misinformation/ideas/beliefs the 'caring' adults they spend their day with are planting in their impressionable minds.

If one wants their kid studying the bible during school time, wouldn't it make sense to enroll them in a christian academy. I for one, sure thought that was what distinguished to two. Vouchers would be appropriate in this situation, but to expect your child to be instucted on the bible/religion in 'public' school makes no sense whatsoever.