Why Are Struggling Parents Such An Easy Mark?

[Antigen]

Yeah, in a nutshell, the same reason balding men are such easy marks for hair growth producs. It's just another kind miraculous snake oil.

I should add, too, and probably more often, that I don't really want to insult people who have fallen for the scam. My own parents did, after all, and plenty of other good people. It's just that I care far less about your feelings than about giving prospective marks the heads up.

Psychedelics often produce psychotic and even violent behavior in those who have never used them.
--Timothy Leary

[TheWho]

On 2005-09-30 16:27:00, Antigen wrote:

"Yeah, in a nutshell, the same reason balding men are such easy marks for hair growth producs. It's just another kind miraculous snake oil.



I should add, too, and probably more often, that I don't really want to insult people who have fallen for the scam. My own parents did, after all, and plenty of other good people. It's just that I care far less about your feelings than about giving prospective marks the heads up.

Psychedelics often produce psychotic and even violent behavior in those who have never used them.
--Timothy Leary

"

Well....yes, Antigen, I would agree, good people looking for solutions to problems.  Balding men looking for special tonic, or maybe a transplant if they can afford it.  If they do enough research they may find an answer that fits their particular problem and one that they can afford.  A parent with a suicidal child may not want to send him or her to a boot camp, for example, in shackles.  A father who wakes up to see his 3 year old daughter walking around with a hyperdermic which was left on the floor in the hallway and 2 strange people passed out in the basement may not want to wait for family therapy to take hold.  Something needs to be done quickly and weeks of research may not be a smart choice.  The stakes are high now with HIV and who knows what else is on the horizon and someone needs to protect the other members of the family.  If you kick the son or daughter out would not be responsible, there are programs designed to help.  They are not all bad

[Anonymous]

Which ones are "good" then? Please tell us.

[Anonymous]

On 2005-09-30 06:15:00, Anonymous wrote:

"

On 2005-09-30 02:01:00, Anonymous wrote:


"I was curious about something. (For the record, I myself hate behavior mod and emotional growth schools.) I would really love to ask atomicAnt's friends, what would they do if their child was depressed and suicidal, and had already attempted suicide once or twice? Mental hospitals can help in some cases, but really don't in terms of helping a teen grow socially, and can make a kid depressed even more because they are under lock and key and around low-functioning people, and behavior mod schools don't address the problem, they just brainwash your kid into thinking they don't have an issue anymore. (If "successful".)





"Smacking some sense" into them isn't going to work. That's just going to make them feel shittier and more worthless and feed into their belief that they should die. Obviously, the kid has problems outside that of a normal teen, so what would you do? You obviously don't want to end up with a dead kid, you know?"

This may come as a great shock to you, but only children who are at risk of harming themselves or another, or are psychotic, should be placed in a locked institution (psychiatric hospital or 24 hour acute care residential treatment center) where according to adolescent behavioral healthcase experts, most kids can be stablized in about 90 days (3 months) and sent home to continue out-patient therapy.



These long term behavior mod programs are nothing more than locked institutions that specialize in keeping non-compliant kids under control.  These types of programs are often ruled by fear and intimidation to encourage the youths to submit to the will of their "family leaders".  They are basically private prisons.



What's really disturbing is there are kids in these behavior mod warehouses who really DO need help and are at serious risk of harm for lack of proper diagnoses, care and treatment (no, being sent to isolation or made to clean toilets does not qualify as care and/or treatment).



Hope this helps answer your question.



 :smokin:



"

This sounds good. The problem was when I was sent away, suicidal teens were put in mental institutions for far far longer than 90 days. Try "indefinite".

I'm not arguing with you. I certainly believe that behavior mod places are NOT the places for ANY teen whatsoever. I was just curious what is the true course of action for suicidal ones who have true problems. I was a suicide risk, had tried it twice, and was also a severe discipline problem to boot. So you had the depression/bipolar thing going on with anger issues, suicidal tendencies and discipline problems. They were basically ready to send me to a mental hospital and have me put in lithium. But instead, they sent me to one of the CEDU schools. I have no idea how long they had planned to keep me at the hospital, however. Back then, the hospital stays could be just as long.

[TheWho]

On 2005-09-30 18:15:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Which ones are "good" then? Please tell us."

We have heard of some relatively good places, Swift River, For example.  There hasnt been alot of negative reporting from them, SUWS? Maybe?  Any suggestions?

[Anonymous]

Surely you jest!! Swift River Academy? No way.

[Helena Handbasket]

... A parent with a suicidal child may not want to send him or her to a boot camp, for example, in shackles.

Maybe that parent should wonder why the kid is suicidal and what caused it.  Suicidal thoughts and actions are not the total diagnosis - there are things that led to it.  And you may not want to hear it, but maybe you should look closer as to what caused the suicidal ideation.  Lack of a program doesn't cause the symptoms.  When you get a headache, are you deficient in aspirin or Tylenol?
 

A father who wakes up to see his 3 year old daughter walking around with a hyperdermic which was left on the floor in the hallway and 2 strange people passed out in the basement may not want to wait for family therapy to take hold.  

Something needs to be done quickly and weeks of research may not be a smart choice.  The stakes are high now with HIV and who knows what else is on the horizon and someone needs to protect the other members of the family.  If you kick the son or daughter out would not be responsible, there are programs designed to help.  They are not all bad"

Ok, here it comes... the CLUE BY FOUR!  If your son/daughter who is now a parent and is deliberately putting their child in danger, these programs aren't gonna help ya.  Above all, they're a farce.  Then comes the fact that they won't usually admit someone over the age of eighteen.  If your son/daughter with the problem is in fact under eighteen, most state laws have special exceptions of custody if the minor child has children.  These (cough) programs can't take them either.  Doesn't mean that they may not really try though - especially if you're paying cash.

Now there's probably some cult out there that I've missed - one that will accept an adult with children ... for a very steep "tuition".  But Hmmmm ... lemme think here....

I know!  HOW ABOUT A LEGITIMATE TREATMENT CENTER?!
 
You know... where the director has a medical license and the staff at least hold Masters degrees in Psychology from accredited universities??  A place Where progress is monitored according to accepted professional standards and not by how many times the subject had to have been "taken down" by the "peer group", maybe?

Talk about "easy marks"... brother, you are about to become the poster child!

Wise up!

[Anonymous]

You obviously haven't used the Search WWF function on the left.
Not a thing in the world wrong with ASR, provided your comfortable with your kids 'ODD' behavior being modified by ODD adults. The lame ass state agency won't go in, assess the services provided, and force them to apply for licensure. No outside agency is monitoring and regulating these mavericks.

[Nihilanthic]

On 2005-09-30 18:15:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Which ones are "good" then? Please tell us."

Thats a trick question.

1. Its nobody's responsibility to tell you what programs are good! When theyre abusive or ineffective, and we know about it, we're gonna be pissed off, becuase most people here were in a program and abused or are the parents of one. Me and a few others found out about it without being personally involved, but still care.
2. Programs are not proven to be necessary OR EFFECTIVE!
3. We got by fine before, when there were none, and we'll do fine without them when they go away, just like MOST people do now ANYWAY!
4. There is no guarantee that there are any good, effective, non abusive programs. While there MAY BE, the burden of proof is on the program to show that it is good, effective, and non abusive, and on the medical professionals (not the salesmen or you...) to prove that the child not only has problems, but needs THAT kind of help, and that program can safely provide it.

You find me a program that isnt based on coersion, punishment, humiliation or LGAs, and Id tell you that you showed me a mislabeled SCHOOL.

One does not have to appeal to God to set the initial conditions for the creation of the universe, but if one does He would have to act through the laws of physics.
--Stephen Hawking, English scientist

[TheWho]

On 2005-09-30 21:47:00, Helena Handbasket wrote:


 If your son/daughter who is now a parent and is deliberately putting their child in danger, these programs aren't gonna help ya.  

Lets back up, I read the story as a parent/care taker who has young children in the house with an out of conrol teenager who is leaving hyperdermics around for their brothers and sisters to step on/pick-up.  If this is the situation, I agree, the kid with the hyperdermic needs to be removed and isolated to protect the other family members (and the kid himself/herself)

[TheWho]

On 2005-09-30 22:24:00, Anonymous wrote:

"You obviously haven't used the Search WWF function on the left.

Not a thing in the world wrong with ASR, provided your comfortable with your kids 'ODD' behavior being modified by ODD adults. The lame ass state agency won't go in, assess the services provided, and force them to apply for licensure. No outside agency is monitoring and regulating these mavericks.

"

I have searched it for ASR, Swift river and found relatively nothing compared to some of the other places.  I have read enough here to know that if ASR has forced one child to miss one breakfast there would be abuse allegations left and right on this site and I dont see any of that.

As far as monitoring and regulation -- Its not the schools fault, would you want to be monitored or regulated.  If you were driving home and you saw a sign "Voluntary breathalizer tests 500 feet ahead" how amny people would pull over?  Would you study and take a drivers test unless you had to to get a license, probably not.
Like everyone else the schools probably feel they are doing a good job and dont seek out regulation

[Troll Control]

On 2005-09-30 16:06:00, Anonymous wrote:

"

On 2005-09-30 10:53:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:



There are SO MANY "struggling parents" out there that a certain percentage are shiftless, gullible, idealistic, lazy, have money and will buy a program.  Remember, "program kids" represent only a tiny fraction of all kids.

"

I agree and its refreshing to hear, so the majority of "Struggling Parents" are doing the right thing, resolving their issues at home, therapy etc., and a small fraction who have exhausted all other options (or girls at the bar) will send their kids to a TBS in hopes they will be saved.  Thank you , it seems to be all to common to bash the Struggling parents"."

How one responds to adversity is a direct measure of one's character.  Believe me when I tell you, there is NOBODY on this board who vilifies "Struggling Parents" who have dug in and fought for their children's lives.  

Those who get "bashed" here are the ones who gave up on their kids, shirked their responsibilities, failed to safeguard the welfare of their children, contibuted to or caused their kids' problems and subsequently blamed them for it, suckers who buy useless, ineffective, hurtful, damaging programs, those who vehemently defend the afore-described, and some others not otherwise specified.

It disturbs me deeply that many parents have abdicated all responsibility for the rearing of their offspring.  I'm mad as hell and I'm surely not going to shut up about it.

[Anonymous]

To refer to BM warehouses as 'schools' is deceptive at best. SCHOOLS don't assume the parental role 24/7/365 for two or three years and determine if and when their charges can have contact with their parents and siblings. SCHOOLS don't force student to attend group therapy and harshly punish teens for minor infractions. SCHOOLS don't deny food/water or subject teens to excessive exercise or physical restraint as punishment. Therefore, schools aren't required to hold a license and surrender to monitoring for violations of regs.

Any parent who considers a program should look carefully at the methods used and have them analyzed by an independent expert. Problem is, parents don't know what methods are being employed until after their child is enrolled because it's not spelled out in the information provided to parents. Further, parents may never know the details of how their child is being conditioned, how their behavior is being modified, because contact is limited and monitored.

Programs avoid regulations and monitoring because many of their methods would not be allowed.

[Nihilanthic]

REAL Boarding schools feed, clothe, and educate.

If a program doesnt do the program bullshit, then its basically just a boarding school without any education :razz:

The other thing is that Id dare you to find ANY program that didnt just use the bootcamp model, or LGA seminars? But hey, that would just be a SCHOOL *CALLED* a program.

We should be careful to get out of an experience only the wisdom that is in it - and stop there;  lest we be like the cat that sits down on a hot stove-lid.  She will never sit down on a hot stove-lid again---and that is well;  but also she will never sit down on a cold one anymore.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/external-search?tag=circlofmiamithem&keyword=mark+twain&mode=books' target='_new'> Mark Twain

[Anonymous]

Since when does a boarding school clothe the kids?  Don't think so!
Emotional Growth Schools are just that- schools that feed, educate and attend to the emotional growth of the students.  There are many programs that do not severely punish the kids for minor offenses.  There are often good therapeutic reasons for limiting contact with the families. The family dynamics have been destroyed and there is a re-building process.  
Dysfunction and Nihil- do you guys have a purpose in life?