I was going to write Dear Greg, but even titles seem it be m

[marshall]

Napolean, from your post we might conclude that cigarettes lead to acid....acid leads to pot..pot to cocaine...to...

In my own case, I started with sips of liquor and beer as a kid. Mom and dad ocassionally let me have tiny amounts of alcohol from the time I was 8 or 9. Never got drunk but it removed most of the mystique of alcohol from my mind. I think that's one reason it's never held sway to any extent over me. I can have a beer or glass of wine without feeling the need to get drunk. I smoked pot over a year before I ever touched cigarettes...so pot leads to tobacco use too, I suppose.

imo, some of the 'this leads to that' gateway idea comes from the fact that our government and society lumps all 'illegal' drugs together to an extent. If they make cigarettes illegal, you'll likely start finding a much higher correlation between teens trying illegal cigarettes and use of other illegal drugs. If caffeine were made illegal, then you'd have people asserting that drinking coffee leads to cocaine with more people actually using both. As it stands, many people draw a line between legal and illegal drugs as if this were a moral distinction. People drink and smoke that wouldn't consider smoking pot or other drugs because those are illegal.

Interesting too that in countries where marijuana use is legal, the citizens use less than they do in countries where it's illegal.

[GregFL]

On 2005-09-29 19:28:00, Anonymous wrote:

"ask any heroin addict what the first illegal drug used was; pot doesn't cause anyone to stick a needle in their arm, but here's something to put your investigative skills at, how many heroin addicts wouldn't have been heroin addicts without pot

i'll give you a hint not many"

Most heroin addicts also tried cheerios before Heroin. Therefore...How many heroin addicts wouldn't have been heroin addicts without cheerios?


I'll give you a clue...because you haven't one.

 


:wstupid:  :wstupid:  :wstupid:  :wstupid:


Jeeuusus, the Gateway theory in 2005.


Hey anon, tell us a story about the Art institute and their accreditation to award honorific doctorate degrees.  

I love fiction!


 :grin:  :grin:  :grin:  :grin:

[Anonymous]

greg i dont think anyone remembers the details. i rember seeing something (1 am not any one of the anons from before) but dont remember the school.
but i also remember it being stated that it was honorary. so its not like its from a diploma factory. it already was just granted for whatever the reason was. it was never stated around me any other way.

[GregFL]

Wrong.

If you are awarded a degree there has to be a reason, even if it is honorary.

The defunct institution allegedly had no authority to award any degree, honorary or otherwise, but instead was accused of SELLING degrees.

So I ask again..someone come up with the actual story surrounding this "doctorate".  The first anon just threw some whitewash on it, and then Thom came along and tried to divert from the question.

It remains.  Again, what were the circumstances surrounding the awarding of the degree, who did it, and under what authority was the degree awarded, and in what field.

These are not trick questions.

[Anonymous]

gerg, i agree there was a reason. i am not saying there is no reason whatsoever. all i am saying was i never heard art or anyone claiming it to be anything other then honorary. i believe it came from a mainstream school and this is just memory hear but i recognized the schools name at the time i saw it.

[GregFL]

Okay, but according to the press, and following the leads from "anon" above, lead right back to a defunct Diploma mill.

An honorary doctorate is a big deal involving speaches, ceremonies, press releases, photos, and a reason. It also involves an actual diploma from an institution authorized to issue doctorates.  

DID ANY OF THIS HAPPEN?  WAS THE DIPLOMA FROM A SOURCE AUTHORIZED TO ISSUE IT?  WAS THERE A CEREMONY?  OR MORE TO THE POINT, IS THIS ALL BULLSHIT AND WAS THE DEGREE JUST MERELY PURCHASED BY OR FOR MR. BARKER?

Again, not trick questions.


I am asking for clarification and reason to not believe the first and most loosely interpreted rule was trampled upon here.


Lets take it a step further and use an actual example of an honorary doctorate, how it is awarded, etc. from an actual facility that awards this type of degree.

http://rules.tamu.edu/urules/100/110799m1.htm

Or in general from Wikipedia..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honorary_degree

[GregFL]

the above is an outline of legitimate "honorary degrees.

The press accused Art of having a degree more on the lines of something like this.......

http://www.cosmoedu.net/concept.html


Cosmopolitan University grants an Honorary Doctoral  Degree
to distinguished individuals who apply and qualify by meeting our standards.

Our list of honorary doctors keeps growing. It is in fact the world's most comprehensive list of honorary doctors - a very illustrious club of successful and distinguished members of our society - worldwide. Among them recipients like the German president Johannes Rau and many other high ranking renowned achievers from all walks of life and many countries.


The owner of an Honorary Doctorate is given the legal right to use "Doctor" before his or her name.

It?s time for YOU, to get YOUR Doctor Honoris Causa, YOUR Honorary Doctorate, which carries the same title, "Doctor" that?s used for a regular (earned) degree.

Prestige is guaranteed. Just check into a hotel as "John Doe" and as "Dr. John Doe". The way you?ll be treated is tremendously different! Your life as a Doctor will change dramatically. It?ll get easier, you will receive the amount of respect a Doctor deserves. Well, the advantages are countless. Think about it for a moment.

Michael Jackson has one, Frank Sinatra, Ella Fitzgerald, Bob Hope, Robert Redford, Mike Tyson, Bill Clinton , George Bush and so on. Sad enough one has to be either rich or famous or both to attract the offer of a university.
More than one thousand traditional universities award Honorary Doctorates.

But the standards, conditions and fees of their HONORARY DEGREE POLICY are ridiculously high.

What we are doing at Cosmopolitan puts into perspective somewhat, the whole aspect of the real purpose of honorary
degrees. In fact, in our process we actually are recognizing people for their societal accomplishments rather than for the typical recognition of a monetary relationship
or as a publicity stunt.

Cosmopolitan University now grants an Honorary Doctoral degree too.
We feel that lots of distinguished people deserve an honorary degree, not just the rich and famous.

Your Honorary Degree will stem
from a legitimate, renowned and thriving University!
Cosmopolitan University uses this program to raise funds for some of its research projects. (through a reasonable handling fee that applies)


The university maintains a complete and permanent record on each Honorary Doctor and responds promptly to requests for validation when authorized by the recipient.


Your name will also be published on the CU's list of recipients of Honorary Degrees. (optional, it is up to you to be published or you choose NOT to appear on that list)

How to apply


TO APPLY just send us an  email --

and we will email you all the details right away.





Act TODAY. This offer will not last forever, in fact it?s a once in a lifetime opportunity to boost your social status.

[GregFL]

So, I am asking, what is the truth?

Since I have no first hand knowledge, someone clear the good name of Art Barker here.

The press said his doctorate came from a diploma mill.

What is the truth?

[GregFL]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diploma_mill

[Anonymous]

the honorary degree question was already answered previously, but i guess since it was not satisfyingly enough disparging of Art it was rejected - swat - let's all join in a chorus of "we only want the brand of truth that fits the mold we've already cast" second verse "facts are only facts when we say, disagree with this and we'll tell you so"

maybe this will help, Dr. Jack Taylor, ( a real PHD and Seed parent), was one of the administrators of Fort Lauderdale College at the time, promoted the degree to honor Art for all the work he had done to help the community.

[Anonymous]

Greg, not that my memory on this is all that great, or that it will clear up a whole lot. but i dont remember them really talking to much about any ceremony. i am sure soemthing had to be done to at least present it. but i dont remember anything being said about it.

not a very factual post, but the best i can remember as it pertains to it being discussed at the time.

[Helena Handbasket]

Oops[ This Message was edited by: Helena Handbasket on 2005-10-01 20:43 ]

[Helena Handbasket]

On 2005-10-01 20:37:00, Helena Handbasket wrote:



On 2005-10-01 17:51:00, Anonymous wrote:


"the honorary degree question was already answered previously, but i guess since it was not satisfyingly enough disparging of Art it was rejected - swat - let's all join in a chorus of "we only want the brand of truth that fits the mold we've already cast" second verse "facts are only facts when we say, disagree with this and we'll tell you so"





maybe this will help, Dr. Jack Taylor, ( a real PHD and Seed parent), was one of the administrators of Fort Lauderdale College at the time, promoted the degree to honor Art for all the work he had done to help the community."

Real PhD, eh?  Maybe he would care to give us a history lesson, or at least make one up.



Usually, colleges and universities are rabid about  preserving their histories.  My own Alma Mater sends me dead trees monthly emblazoned with accomplishments of alumni who are now only familiar in their own workforce.  But they are alumni, and the good ol' U. needs to get the word out while they beg for my contribution to the alumni association.



Why is there no history of this Ft. Lauderdale College?

Come to think of it - my mother reports that Helen Petermann had a wall full of diplomas.  There is nothing in Petermann's credentials that back this up.  Wasn't she also a seed parent?  Maybe she knows Dr. Jack Taylor?  

_________________
Where are we going, and what are we doing in this handbasket??

[marshall]

It was all just word of mouth hear-say from oldtimers and oldcomers, but I recall being told that Art had studied all the major world religions as well as psychology and that this (in addtion to AA) is where he derived the Seed's methodology / content. I never questioned it at the time.

[GregFL]

On 2005-10-01 17:51:00, Anonymous wrote:

"the honorary degree question was already answered previously, but i guess since it was not satisfyingly enough disparging of Art it was rejected - swat -

It was rejected because the answer was bullshit..it insinuated the Art institute Of Ft Lauderdale was accredited when in fact, in 1972 it was not, and the degree apparantly didn't come from there. In addition, The Art institute of Ft Lauderdale has never awarded doctorates of any type.  Yet the post was repleate with dishonest references to accreditation that came later for lesser degrees.


Looking for an honest answer...