PARENTS WHO WON'T LET GO

[Anonymous]

Check out this thread ... a parent bemoaning what went wrong with her two kids .... after being sent to wilderness therapy, TBS, etc.  Granted, I don't know too many parents who wouldn't be concerned ... but it just goes to show ... PROGRAMS are not the cure-all ... sometimes they are the PROBLEM or just downright worthless.

http://www.strugglingteens.com/cgi-bin/ ... 2;t=001119

[Anonymous]

It's sad they write their children off at the age of 18, 19, 20. It's pretty damn normal to party it up during those ages, and the issues these kids are dealing with are minor compared to most people. You notice none of them say my teen is addicted to heroin, sleeping on the streets, had several OD's or anything. THey are simply sad their teen doesn't fit into their 'mold' of a perfect kid. No wonder the kids are rebelling once their adults and free from their crazy parents. They will settle down on their own away from their parents and be fine. They need to get the fuck away from these weirdo struggling teens parents... thats the key to getting healthy. Stay away.. and never look back.

[Anonymous]

Yeah, get pregnant/or someone else pregnant, have kids, raise 'em to to do what ever they want so they too can work minimum wage jobs or better yet stay on govt. programs so tax dollars can support 'em.  That is only if they are lucky enough to not get killed in a drunk driving accident or kill someone else while driving under the influence.  Don't you want better for your kids?  Sure kids make mistakes, but it is not wrong for a parent to be concerned if they see repeatedly wrong, unhealthy choices being made.  One day of binging on french fries and big macs won't make you fat, but if I see that is the steady diet of my child over the course of a few weeks, if I love him I will try to figure out why the unhealthy choices.  If the diet continues for months, I best seek professional help before something more serious than chubbiness sets in.  If I don't, he will end up with heart disease.  Waiting until the first heart attack to try and get to the problem could be a little too late!  I don't care how old my child is.  He/she will always be my child and I will always love him/her and will always be concerned about their health and well being.  It is just past the age of 18 I am no longer responsible for the health and well being of my child

[Anonymous]

Yeah, get pregnant/or someone else pregnant, have kids, raise 'em to to do what ever they want so they too can work minimum wage jobs or better yet stay on govt. programs so tax dollars can support 'em.  That is only if they are lucky enough to not get killed in a drunk driving accident or kill someone else while driving under the influence.  Don't you want better for your kids?  Sure kids make mistakes, but it is not wrong for a parent to be concerned if they see repeatedly wrong, unhealthy choices being made.  One day of binging on french fries and big macs won't make you fat, but if I see that is the steady diet of my child over the course of a few weeks, if I love him I will try to figure out why the unhealthy choices.  If the diet continues for months, I best seek professional help before something more serious than chubbiness sets in.  If I don't, he will end up with heart disease.  Waiting until the first heart attack to try and get to the problem could be a little too late!  I don't care how old my child is.  He/she will always be my child and I will always love him/her and will always be concerned about their health and well being.  It is just past the age of 18 I am no longer responsible for the health and well being of my child

[Anonymous]

There was no mention of drug use or other issues in that thread, but if you spent 3 minutes digging around, you would have found out the girl was using Meth and painkillers, and the boyfriend sounded like he was headed towards watching life pass him by while he sat in prison.

On 2005-09-14 00:13:00, Anonymous wrote:

"It's sad they write their children off at the age of 18, 19, 20. It's pretty damn normal to party it up during those ages, and the issues these kids are dealing with are minor compared to most people. You notice none of them say my teen is addicted to heroin, sleeping on the streets, had several OD's or anything. THey are simply sad their teen doesn't fit into their 'mold' of a perfect kid. No wonder the kids are rebelling once their adults and free from their crazy parents. They will settle down on their own away from their parents and be fine. They need to get the fuck away from these weirdo struggling teens parents... thats the key to getting healthy. Stay away.. and never look back."

[Anonymous]

On 2005-09-14 05:16:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Yeah, get pregnant/or someone else pregnant, have kids, raise 'em to to do what ever they want so they too can work minimum wage jobs or better yet stay on govt. programs so tax dollars can support 'em.  That is only if they are lucky enough to not get killed in a drunk driving accident or kill someone else while driving under the influence.  Don't you want better for your kids?  Sure kids make mistakes, but it is not wrong for a parent to be concerned if they see repeatedly wrong, unhealthy choices being made.  One day of binging on french fries and big macs won't make you fat, but if I see that is the steady diet of my child over the course of a few weeks, if I love him I will try to figure out why the unhealthy choices.  If the diet continues for months, I best seek professional help before something more serious than chubbiness sets in.  If I don't, he will end up with heart disease.  Waiting until the first heart attack to try and get to the problem could be a little too late!  I don't care how old my child is.  He/she will always be my child and I will always love him/her and will always be concerned about their health and well being.  It is just past the age of 18 I am no longer responsible for the health and well being of my child"

Ever heard the saying ... "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink" ...?

These struggling parents are scared shitless their kid is going to make a mistake and ruin not just their own lives, but their parents, so they send them away to a place where behind closed doors, their kid is emotionally battered.

It's despictable that after getting out of a program, parents will turn their back on their own kid if he/she doesn't live up to their expectations and demands.

Don't want the kid to end up pregnant?  Take them to planned parenthood where they can get free condoms and birth control pills, exams and medicine to help combat STD's.  In other words,  help them to help themselves.  Be proactive but don't push too hard.  Remember, your child has a right to privacy, whether you like it or not.



 :smokin:

[Antigen]

All of these accusations about the daughter and the boyfriend are just that; accusations. Could be entirely made up out of whole cloth and irrational fear on the parents' part. Often times, that's exactly the case. And that sort of irrational fear is very much encouraged by the industry in their very well developed marketing systems. Some people actually believe that if their kid takes up certain fashion trends, like binkys or piercings or other things, that this is absolute empirical proof of a progressive, incurable, terminal disease. Of course, it's not. But we trust the process and don't let any reason or criticizm (negativity) interfere w/ our simplistic, totalitarian plans.

You think this generation invented sex and drugs? Bwahahaha! You're bullshit! The WWII generation were the ones all strung out on bennies, beer and easy prosperity.

The odds of your kid landing up on welfare are much greater now than for us or our parents. That's just a fact. While we were all fixated on the disaster in NOLA, the Census Bureau released their latest economic findings. Turns out another 1.4 million Americans slipped down accross the poverty line over the past couple of years.

Think about that. No, really think! I have young adult kids. They're struggling just to keep a car running, gassed up and insured so they can get to work to keep the damned car going so they can get to work.... And they're constantly getting shit about how it's all their fault, they're not trying hard enough, whatever. I can remember crying unconsolably all alone in my car on the way home from a job interview. It had been 6 weeks and I had rent to pay, kids to feed, and I was ready to accept this part time position calling people up during dinner to try and sell them cemetary plots. And that was the late `80's. Things have gotten much worse since then.

It is not fair or even humane to lay this bullshit on these kids that it's their fault they can't find a good paying career opportunity. And to actually believe, as you seem to, that indulging in a little drug experimentation is the root of the problem? You've got to be a friggin' idiot to even entertain the thought!

No, my big challenge as matron of our little surfdome here is to keep those kids believing in themselves even though they have to do harder, less esteemed work for less pay than we did when we were their age. It would be the height of betrayal for me to switch sides and work to squash their self confidence.


 

"One commentator pointed out that when the mafia commits violence, no
one suggests we bomb Sicily.  Today it seems we are, in a symbolic way, not only bombing "Sicily," but are thinking about bombing "Athens" (Iraq)."

http://www.house.gov/paul/congrec/congrec2001/cr112901.htm' target='_new'>Ron Paul, 11/29/01 Speech before Congress

[Truth Searcher]

The odds of your kid landing up on welfare are much greater now than for us or our parents. That's just a fact. While we were all fixated on the disaster in NOLA, the Census Bureau released their latest economic findings. Turns out another 1.4 million Americans slipped down across the poverty line over the past couple of years.



Think about that. No, really think! I have young adult kids. They're struggling just to keep a car running, gassed up and insured so they can get to work to keep the damned car going so they can get to work.... And they're constantly getting shit about how it's all their fault, they're not trying hard enough

I think Ginger makes a VERY valid point.  My kids have had the unfortunate experience of growing up in a very affluent community.  I shudder to think what this has taught them in terms of expected living styles.  It is very unlikely that they will ever attain the level of financial security that they have come to accept as normal.  And for my daughter, I think our very anal academically geared school system sent her messages that she did not measure up.  And I think she has internalized the message that she will never measure up.  In hind sight, it is no wonder that she turned to drugs to cope as such an early age.  And it is not just the community that they grew up in.  It is the entire culture.  It is the mass media message that tells girls you never look good enough.  You are never thin enough.  You never have enough of the right clothes.

Unfortunately, she did not have the maturity, or the strength to understand and process these messages for what they are.  Lies.  And I attribute alot of her struggles to these overt and covert messages.

We just moved to a rural, much less affluent small town.  She was amazed at how few kids had their own cars to drive to school.  She was amazed that juniors and seniors actually rode a bus to school (social suicide at her old school).  And she is amazed at how accepting the kids are of her less than mainstream style.

  Yes alot of pressure comes from parents.  But, alot comes from the culture too!  OK thats my $.02 worth.

[Antigen]

Thanks, TS. That's exactly what I'm talking about. And it's just so nice to be understood.

I was thinking right along the same lines when I moved my kids out of So. FL to rural SW PA. Evidently, we're either way ahead of the pack or we really are lunatics. Early rumors around here were that we were in the wittness protection program. LOL Why else would anybody intentionally move to this beat down, po dunk, right?

But it's just exactly as you say. People around here have always lived here. Not everybody, but the majority. The people they love and respect never had any damned thing, except for a relatively brief period between WWII and the great collapse of domestic Big Steel. Stuff just doesn't matter quite so much here. And reputations are more based on character and behavior, though (unfortunately, imo) also somewhat on guilt by association.

Yes alot of pressure comes from parents. But, alot comes from the culture too! OK thats my $.02 worth.

Absolutely. In fact I don't really think the parents are the primary source of it so much as they're victims themselves. We're really inundated w/ anxiety about the kids and our own ability to just love them and trust that process. It starts right in the delivery room, even before that in the OB/GYN's office, and continues on through their age of majority.

If we fall for it, they tend to believe us. And there's a ready made, easily obtained alternative and we're instructed frequenly by the Ad Council, some pediatricians, the DARE cop (et al) to constantly suspect and accuse them of taking those option. And, being our children, if we buy into that, so do they. The hand the rocks the cradle being as it is, they trust us and believe us.

It's really insideous when you stop to think about it. All good intentions aside, the professional pedagogs in our midsts at once undermine our natural authority as parents and turn that profound power that we have to influence our kids against the kids. Or they try to, anyway.

Toughlove is a hategroup!

If only there were evil people somewhere, insidiously committing evil
deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0060007761/circlofmiamithem' target='_new'>Alexandr Solzhenitsyn

[OverLordd]

I think that all this, all the parents, all the worries, all the frets, and all the, "My kid needs to be fixed." mentality boils down to pure hatred.

The comment ginger made about Tough love being a hate group is very telling indeed. I would like to give you quotes from the parents own words.

I know she will end up with him, or on the street, and pregnant.

You are smart to cut off the funds- at this point she is going to have to learn the hard way.

YOU did not do anything wrong! YOU sent her to wilderness, community college, and a therapeutic school. You went above and beyond what many parents would do.

Perhaps, by some divine intervention the boyfriend will go to jail

But, then, pick yourself up, detach, and let her make her own bed.

So she makes a crappy choice. Doesn't mean her life is over. Doesn't mean that she is a failure. And it certainly does not mean that you are a failure as a parent or that you did something horribly wrong. It just that her learning curve is a little different than other kids. Her bottom may just be a little lower than you would like.

She will (hopefully) reconsider her thinking about loser boyfriend.

I fight the negative thoughts about being a failure as a parent by attending any parenting workshops that are offered -- there are many free ones through the schools and community.

All these thoughts, all these statements at the base of them can be boiled down to the idea of. "They are not like me, they are not doing what I did, and they are broken." I give you the example of calling the boyfriend a loser. The poster cannot be absolutely sure what is going on in the kids life, she can?t be sure that he did anything, and she can?t be sure what he is doing. Yet she calls him a loser. If she was a parent other than his/her child she/he would most likely call his/her child a loser as well. Its the mentality of they do no fight my mold. Its the example of the height of arrogance. The poster continues to say that he/she just knows that the child will be out on the street and get pregnant, and that she/he is worried.

Even though she says these things they continue to press her to detach and cut the funds, almost ensuring that their prediction will happen. They are trying to force the youth to his/her lowest level so she will come crawling back and submit to his/her parents, its truly disgusting. It is a example of a extreme double standard. In stead of coming together during a hard time in the family?s life they continue to fracture and break. Truly tough love is a hate group, is splits people apart instead of bringing them together.

[Truth Searcher]

OL~
I have to take exception to some of your observations.
First~ "I think that all this, all the parents, all the worries, all the frets, and all the, "My kid needs to be fixed." mentality boils down to pure hatred."  I have fretted, worried, and believed that my child needs some "fixing" (her thinking processes can be very skewed).  For example, her thinking that because she doesn't' look like Kate Moss or Paris Hilton, she is ugly and not of great worth is wrong thinking.  These types of thought processes require "fixing", or at very least consideration.  Of course I worry about my daughter. I love her and I want her to be happy and find contentment in life.  It is the furthest thing from pure hatred.  Hitler exhibited pure hatred for any person not of Aryan descent.  
Secondly~ You seem to not understand the idea of detachment.  Or tough love for that matter.  Allowing my child the dignity to make her own decisions, and then allowing those choices to bring whatever rewards or consequences is (IMHO) detachment.  If she chooses to do drugs again, and gets caught,gets arrested and is incarcerated by the juvenile system, that is her choice.  That does not mean that I don't love her, or grieve over here consequences with her; it simply means that I will not bail her out of her painful consequences (and of course there are exceptions).  I am not trying to force her to her lowest level so that she will crawling back and submit to me.  I am allowing her the freedom to make her own choices and to learn by them.  

I have always told my kids that there is nothing that they can do that will make me love them any more.  AND, there is nothing that they can ever do that will make me love them any less.  I love them because they are who they are, not because of what they do or don't do.

You are young (not said in a condescending manner mind you).  You have not parented.  And while you bring many good points to the discussion, until you parent, your perspective is that of a non-parent.  But, do not assume that all parents who practice detachment are motivated by pure hatred.  Some are actually motivated by pure love......

[Anonymous]

On 2005-09-14 09:34:00, Truth Searcher wrote:

"OL~

I have to take exception to some of your observations.

First~ "I think that all this, all the parents, all the worries, all the frets, and all the, "My kid needs to be fixed." mentality boils down to pure hatred."  I have fretted, worried, and believed that my child needs some "fixing" (her thinking processes can be very skewed).  For example, her thinking that because she doesn't' look like Kate Moss or Paris Hilton, she is ugly and not of great worth is wrong thinking.  These types of thought processes require "fixing", or at very least consideration.  Of course I worry about my daughter. I love her and I want her to be happy and find contentment in life.  It is the furthest thing from pure hatred.  Hitler exhibited pure hatred for any person not of Aryan descent.  

Secondly~ You seem to not understand the idea of detachment.  Or tough love for that matter.  Allowing my child the dignity to make her own decisions, and then allowing those choices to bring whatever rewards or consequences is (IMHO) detachment.  If she chooses to do drugs again, and gets caught,gets arrested and is incarcerated by the juvenile system, that is her choice.  That does not mean that I don't love her, or grieve over here consequences with her; it simply means that I will not bail her out of her painful consequences (and of course there are exceptions).  I am not trying to force her to her lowest level so that she will crawling back and submit to me.  I am allowing her the freedom to make her own choices and to learn by them.  



I have always told my kids that there is nothing that they can do that will make me love them any more.  AND, there is nothing that they can ever do that will make me love them any less.  I love them because they are who they are, not because of what they do or don't do.



You are young (not said in a condescending manner mind you).  You have not parented.  And while you bring many good points to the discussion, until you parent, your perspective is that of a non-parent.  But, do not assume that all parents who practice detachment are motivated by pure hatred.  Some are actually motivated by pure love......



"

The juvenile justice system is one of the best wake up calls out there and few kids, if any, really wanna be there.

The problem with drug use and/or experimentation is it can and does lead to serious consequences.

Most of us parents (if honest) did our share of sex, drugs, rock and roll and understand your concern.

Some, never smoked a joint in their life or drank a drop of booze but still ended up in program like Straight b/c their parents fell for the anti-teen propaganda hook, line and sinker.

Kids can and do get through adolescence at different speeds.  Just being there to help your kid is far more effective than sending them away to some controlled, twisted enviroment.  Some parents will move out of a bad neighborhood (or urban castle), send a child to live with relatives, whatever it takes, because of negative peer pressure and/or bad schools, etc.

Just look around at the number of ed cons and parent referral agencies whose kids DID NOT GROW UP at home, not because they were troubled, but because the parent was, and unfortunately, found a way to fund their kid's institutionalization by persuading other parents to lock up their own kids.

It's a sad, sad situation.  Ironically, selling programs at helping to facilitate family healing when in reality, they are destroying them.

[OverLordd]

In response to Truth Searcher.

The idea of detachment as it has been presented, as it is talked about, and as it is practiced is very different from what you present as your definition of detachment. These parents seem to just leave their child out on a limb, hang them out to dry as it where. They family splinters because they will no help said child. In a time of upheaval the family needs to come together, not to be held apart and a member left to drift. Giving a child the dignity to make his or her own decisions is one thing, but its quiet different from taking away their dignity by cutting him or her off and forcing them to come back begging on his/her knees. This is the way it seems to be talked about, and practiced, while you may not do this, may others sure seem to. As a example I was allowed to make my own choices when I was living at home, if I chose to stay up and out late my mother expected me to not complain about being tired and not to fall asleep in class. This is freedom to make choices. Waiting for your child to get busted by the cops for drugs is not freedom of choice, its screwing him or her over and leaving him or her out on a limb.

I will assume a parent who practices tough love is motivated by pure hatred because their actions show that they are motivated by pure hatred for their child. I read the actions. Saying "I love you." sounds pretty, but it don?t wife batters say the same thing after the wife is black and blue?[ This Message was edited by: OverLordd on 2005-09-14 11:07 ]