The BIG Conduct Disorder Myth

[Truth Searcher]

Thanks Anon~
I appreciate your words.  I too, have shopped with my daughter at the the thrift stores (saved alot of $$$ on the tight budget this year!!), army surplus and even (OMG)at Hot Topix  ::bangin:: (believe me... I'm no fashion diva.  Most of my clothes come from garage sales... :wink: )

See, that's why I come here.  Because I really appreciate the perspective that helps me understand where she's coming from.  So, thanks.

[Anonymous]

On 2005-09-14 09:51:00, Truth Searcher wrote:

"Thanks Anon~

I appreciate your words.  I too, have shopped with my daughter at the the thrift stores (saved alot of $$$ on the tight budget this year!!), army surplus and even (OMG)at Hot Topix  ::bangin:: (believe me... I'm no fashion diva.  Most of my clothes come from garage sales... :wave:

[bandit1978]

Motivated by this thread, I have again put hot pink streaks in my (blonde) hair.

[Anonymous]

This is my assessment, with over ten years in professional mental health treatment. Of course, opinions on this stuff vary a great deal. To start, it sounds like you are very insightful.

On 2005-09-07 16:00:00, Truth Searcher wrote:

"So, does ADD exist?  

I don't believe in ADHD. I am in the minority.  It is interesting. ADHD is not diagnosed as heavily, Europe or elsewhere, as it is in the USA. Big Pharma USA profits heavily on the ADHD mythology. Lots of clinicians enjoy the Big Pharma lunches, dinners, freebees, etc.

Or do kids just need to get out of the house and run and play in the neighborhood and burn off that extra energy?

Yes. Video games and TV don't help a growing mind. Or the school program is not challenging. Many ADHD labeled kids are bright and bored in the crappy public schools.



Do conduct disorders truly exist?

I would not define it as a disorder. But it has become a way to label kids--especially underprivledged minorities. They statistically carry this diagnosis more than others. It is like saying: "This kid will be a sociopath when he gets older." According to the DSM, Conduct Disorder is frequently a precursor to antisocial personality disorder. When a clinician labels a kid with this, it is a set up for failure.

  Or are kids acting out for parental approval and attention because parents are too caught up in a materialist culture?

Good insight.




Do personality disorder actually exist?

Yes. But any clinician worth a grain of salt would not label someone under the age of 18 with a personality disorder. Personality is not fully developed during the pre-adult stages of human development. Erikson addresses this in his widely accepted theory of human development. Many normal adolescent personality traits (testing boundaries, challenging authority, experimentation with drugs and sex, disregard for others) are too often diagnosed / labeled as borderline, antisocial, etc., in the mental health system. Personality Disorders are rare and currently over diagnosed even in adult  mental health treatment. If a clinician diagnoses a kid with a PD, run for the hills. They are essentially telling you: "I cannot help your kid. He / she is hopeless / a pain in my ass."

 Or are kids messed up who have been institutionalized since birth?  

Institutionalization does effect mental health, development, social skills, and general health and wellness. There are plenty of studies on record that address this fact.



Are we too quick to allow ourselves to be victims and not take responsibility for our actions?

Yes. We are living in a microwave fast society. Everyone seems to want the quick fix. This is how Big Pharma makes their billions.

  Do other countries have such alarming rates of medicating their children and do their doctors ship them off to psychiatrists and institutions when things go haywire?

No. This is unique to the Western world--especially the USA. There are many cultural explanations. And there are many studies that show this discrepancy. An example of a cultural difference: In the East, many people labeled elsewhere as psychotic / schizophrenic are considered visionaries and are not stigmatized.

Again, take a look at Big Pharma for a partial explanation.



Rhetorical questions I know, but I do desire to understand the big picture..."

Sounds to me like you have a good grasp of the big picture.

[Anonymous]

In the East, many people labeled elsewhere as psychotic / schizophrenic are considered visionaries and are not stigmatized.

---

I hear this alot, but I have never seen one of these
visionaries who has schizophrenia. Urban myth I would say.

---

It is easy to spot stigmitizing opinions written by someone who does not have a mental illness ...

[Antigen]

Ok, here's my opinion on HD/ADHD.

Yes, certainly, there are people who are far more active, more easily bored, distractable and prone to flit from one interest to the next. This is, to some degree, a normal part of early childhood. But some kids stand out and excell at it.

But THIS IS NOT A DISORDER!

There are other kids who are extremely shy, pensive, quiet, reserved and inclined to just sit and emmerse themselves in a single interest for hours.

THIS IS ALSO NOT A DISORDER!

Most, possibly all, of the great luminaries down through history fit perfectly one horrid Dx or another. Had Einstein been doped up on Nazi methamphetamines like we do to kids like him today, we would never have had the theory of relativity. Then what would Stephen Hawking have done w/ his disable self?

Who knows. I'm just thankful that Mr. and Mrs. Hawking didn't get sucked into the same toughlove hategroup that my parents did. Li'll Steve was, by all accounts (including his own) a perfect candidate for a toughlove behavior mod program.

The present system is among the most impractical imaginable, if the facilitation of learning is your aim.
--Neil Postman and Charles Weingartner

[Anonymous]

Well, I am not sure about the elimination of all diagnosis and simply doing nothing or letting people drift and see where they end up.

Many people have been helped when their diagnosis effect their lives negatively. Ask them, their family or friends. Don't ask yourself to be the expert unless you have experienced a mental illness firsthand or as a family member.

Remember that all those artists that they are now claiming had some sort of diagnosis DID NOT CREATE while symptomatic.

That is so important to understand, rather than to just throw a critical net of disbelief on a whole
section of science that we may all need someday, whether we believe in it or not.

Ask anyone who has a diagnosis how much fun they are having, and if they chose to go nuts ...

No one chooses it, life just happens, just like it will happen to us all ...

---

Finally, Lincoln was very depressed when he was taken in by that family friend.

If it is as the naysayers suggest, he should have been given no help.

His host thought he had the ability for law school so he filled out the application for him. Fortunately for Lincoln he cycled out of that deperession and was able to attend law school and the rest is history.

If it where not for his friend filling out the application, which today would have been called either an accomodation or supportive housing Lincoln would not have made it to law school.

Remember that next time you all are letting someone with a mental illness twist in the wind because you are lucky enough not to be sick.

Again, Lincoln would not have go started because he was symptomatic and unable to function when it was his chance to go to law school.

Symptomatic = dysfuntion

Non-symptomatic = productive life

What would you do for the next Lincoln that is sitting in a corner with racing thought about how terrible he is and how suicide his his only way out of this misery?

[Antigen]

No, that's not what I'm talking about. And I don't think you're talking about anything like the majority. I'm talking about little kids who are generally happy, active, healthy little kids most of the time EXCEPT when they're in the classroom. In the classroom, they fail to act like those other quiet, shy, submissive kids. This makes some adults very uncomfortable. So the adults pretend that the kid is disordered so they can go on imposing rediculously out of line demands on their charges w/ impunity.

Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0688163157/circlofmiamithem' target='_new'> John F. Kennedy

[Deborah]

Executive Mansion
Washington, December 23, 1862.

Dear Fanny

It is with deep grief that I learn of the death of your kind and brave Father; and, especially, that it is affecting your young heart beyond what is common in such cases. In this sad world of ours, sorrow comes to all; and, to the young, it comes with bitterest agony, because it takes them unawares. The older have learned to ever expect it. I am anxious to afford some alleviation of your present distress. Perfect relief is not possible, except with time. You can not now realize that you will ever feel better. Is not this so? And yet it is a mistake. You are sure to be happy again. To know this, which is certainly true, will make you some less miserable now. I have had experience enough to know what I say; and you need only to believe it, to feel better at once. The memory of your dear Father, instead of an agony, will yet be a sad sweet feeling in your heart, of a purer and holier sort than you have known before.

Please present my kind regards to your afflicted mother.

Your sincere friend
A. Lincoln

[Deborah]

:question:

"Abe Lincoln was 28 years old and wholly self-taught. He had almost no formal education at all. He never attended high school, college or law school, and was never apprenticed to a lawyer," he added.

On Dec. 3, 1839, Lincoln was one of six lawyers admitted to practice in federal courts. Among others were Stephen A. Douglas and Samuel H. Treat, both of whom later served on the Supreme Court.

Treat also was a U.S. District Court judge, and Douglas, the "Little Giant" who debated with Lincoln, left the bench to serve in the U.S. House and Senate.

Mills spoke of David Davis, admitted in 1839 to federal practice at age 24. As president in 1862, Lincoln appointed Davis to the U.S. Supreme Court, where he served until 1877 and was elected to the Senate. In 1884, Davis became the seventh president of the Illinois State Bar Association.

"Abraham Lincoln has, in sum, left a legacy of superb and incomparable legal ability," Mills said. Davis said Lincoln "had few equals," and Breeze regarded him as "the finest lawyer I ever knew."

[Anonymous]

On 2005-09-16 12:36:00, Antigen wrote:

"No, that's not what I'm talking about. And I don't think you're talking about anything like the majority. I'm talking about little kids who are generally happy, active, healthy little kids most of the time EXCEPT when they're in the classroom. In the classroom, they fail to act like those other quiet, shy, submissive kids. This makes some adults very uncomfortable. So the adults pretend that the kid is disordered so they can go on imposing rediculously out of line demands on their charges w/ impunity.

Oopsa! I missed your point completely.

Thanks for correcting me, and I agree with you, obviously ...

[Anonymous]

On 2005-09-16 12:38:00, Deborah wrote:

"Executive Mansion

Washington, December 23, 1862.



Dear Fanny



It is with deep grief that I learn of the death of your kind and brave Father; and, especially, that it is affecting your young heart beyond what is common in such cases. In this sad world of ours, sorrow comes to all; and, to the young, it comes with bitterest agony, because it takes them unawares. The older have learned to ever expect it. I am anxious to afford some alleviation of your present distress. Perfect relief is not possible, except with time. You can not now realize that you will ever feel better. Is not this so? And yet it is a mistake. You are sure to be happy again. To know this, which is certainly true, will make you some less miserable now. I have had experience enough to know what I say; and you need only to believe it, to feel better at once. The memory of your dear Father, instead of an agony, will yet be a sad sweet feeling in your heart, of a purer and holier sort than you have known before.



Please present my kind regards to your afflicted mother.



Your sincere friend

A. Lincoln "

Yes, Lincoln describes grief perfectly here.

I think we where talking about mental illness.

Two different things.

[Anonymous]

On 2005-09-16 12:58:00, Deborah wrote:

" :question:

I will find that info I posted about Lincoln being
helped out while depressed, and post it.

Not today, too busy ...

Thanks for your post though, it give me motivation
to read up on ole Abe once again.

Later ...