Concern for a "student"

[Troll Control]

That's my advice to others in certain situations, yes.  Go back and read the thread, and you'll see that this was someone who was already gainfully employed and was considering making a disclosure.

I advised against this because one, it wasn't germane to his line of work, and two, people can be very discriminatory when it comes to criminal records, even for minor infractions that occurred decades in the past.  I didn't see any sense in this fellow opening himself up to losing his job.  I think that's pretty responsible advice.

In the interest of ETHICS and working in a field where it's important to be forthright and honest, I chose to disclose to my potential employers.

Would you have preferred that I lied?

Why did you shift the focus instead of answering the question?  For you, it's perfectly fine to take the risk of a child rapist having contact with your child because the facility doesn't do background checks?

Shouldn't you be more concerned with the policies of the places that hired me without a background check, rather than my complete honesty in disclosure?

Seems like you'll say anything to attack me while completely avoiding the fact that the people you support are negligent...


_________________
"Compassion is the basis of morality"

-Arnold Schopenhauer[ This Message was edited by: Dysfunction Junction on 2005-08-14 10:02 ][ This Message was edited by: Dysfunction Junction on 2005-08-14 10:41 ]

[Anonymous]

You know, there is nothin lower than throwing someone's past in there face to discredit them. Please stick to the original dispute. This is maddening!Many people, including myself, have a past, and its so long ago it shouldn't even be an issue! It appears to me that dysfunction was been able to straighten his/her life out. Its detestable anonymous, to sink to such depths as to spend so much of your time hunting for "dirt" on someone, then waiting for the opportunity to throw it in their face when it suits your own twisted purposes.

Seems to me it is you, anonymous, that has NO LIFE!

[Troll Control]

Sticking to the issues is just not possible for these folks.  They have a compulsion to avoid factual discussion.

Thanks for your input, though.

See, the facts are that I have nothing to hide nor defend.  I am what I am, for better or for worse.  I've overcome a lot of handicaps (self-imposed and otherwise) in my life and have become quite successful, both financially and personally.

The reason I went to college for six long years to work as a therapist is because I thought I could help kids avoid the problems that I had gone through.  I was idealistic and hopeful, and fully expectant that my hopes would come true.

What I found was that the "business" of "teen help" is a nasty, for-profit, unethical, unregulated and ultimately harmful industry.

I worked at two different facilities, the second one in hopes that the first was just a "bad place."  What I found, through my experience and through copious research, is that the vast majority of facilities are just like the ones for which I worked.

I left the industry because the industry itself prevented caring people like myself from actually helping any children.

The facilities are warehouses, holding pens if you will, designed solely for the purpose of extracting the maximim dollar from desperate parents with hurting children.  

It is a violation of the code of ethics I swore to uphold to purposefully deny proper treatment to my clients.  I felt it was no longer appropriate to continue to work in the TBS business, so I left.

I have no agenda, no dog in the race.  These other folks do.  

I just want to see hurting children healed.  

Unfortunately, these places just aren't effective at doing so, and all of the independent research proves it, including detailed longitudinal studies conducted under the authority of the Surgeon General of the United States.

I don't deign to understand why these people will go to such lengths to defend an obviously defective modality.  All I can say for sure is that they must have a vested interest to do so, or they wouldn't do it.

[Anonymous]

This is more like it. How about changing the subject to how I was self destructing but still managed to turn myself around and still make something of myself in spite of all the madness of these stupid places? Now that is something worth talking about! Good for you dysfunction.

[Troll Control]

On 2005-08-14 09:37:00, PFRR wrote:

"It would probably be helpful to people if you would be specific when saying you in your posts, I myself could not nor would not even want to begin to think what is going on in your head, or assume anything.  There are a lot of you's out there!"

Andrea, I usually quote the particular post with which I take umbrage.  I try to be as clear as possible and I think I've done so.

On another note, I need to apologize to you for being so nasty earlier.  You certainly didn't deserve to take a hit like that over something so minor.

I got upset when you (mistakenly) thought I was speaking to you in an earlier post and said you'd be offended if you didn't "consider the source," which I took as an unjustified slap at me over your misconception regarding my comments.

I do believe that you do your dead-level best to work hard to raise awareness and bring about change in a very troubled treatment modality and I do not wish to diminish your effort.

Please also understand that the way I respond to hurtful anonymous trolls on a message board in no way shape or form has any bearing on how I relate to actual people in the real world.  If you knew me, you'd know that.

I'm aware that I get a bit out of line sometimes, but I assure you that my emotions are stirred only because I am acutely aware of the suffering that these children endure to the end of lining the pockets of shareholders and ed cons.  And certain trolls, like the ones on this thread, would seek to continue that suffering through pure ignorance or direct complicity.  THAT'S what gets the reaction out of me.

It's a sad state of affairs sometimes.

In any case, once again, I apologize for jumping on you.

[Shortbus]

There are probably people out there trying to get rich in this industry.... but think about it, there are way easier ways to make a buck than wilderness therapy or theraputic boarding schools. Heck, become a dirtbag building contractor!

On another note, I just spent a while reading this thread. Lordy it was long. There are some pretty harsh posts in it. If some of you fornits old timers want to run new folks off I can see that it might work. If its just a trial by fire kinda thing I can understand that too but let people know what the intention is. Most of the topics produce stong emotions and opinions are pretty polarized. I like hearing from different sides - keeps things interesting.

[Troll Control]

On 2005-08-14 11:46:00, Shortbus wrote:

"There are probably people out there trying to get rich in this industry.... but think about it, there are way easier ways to make a buck than wilderness therapy or theraputic boarding schools. Heck, become a dirtbag building contractor!



On another note, I just spent a while reading this thread. Lordy it was long. There are some pretty harsh posts in it. If some of you fornits old timers want to run new folks off I can see that it might work. If its just a trial by fire kinda thing I can understand that too but let people know what the intention is. Most of the topics produce stong emotions and opinions are pretty polarized. I like hearing from different sides - keeps things interesting.



"

I disagree.  I know of few other ways to make THAT MUCH money with no accountablity whatsoever.

Think about it: $4000.00 per month per child in a facility that warehouses, let's say, 100 kids.

That's $4,800,000.00 per year gross income.  I know from working in this business, the the "top-end" places (the $4000.00/month type) operate at roughly 40% profit.  

So, the owner and any shareholders will whack up $1.92 million in profits yearly.

This leaves just over $2 million for pay, facilities, food, etc.  That's plenty to run a campus.

Also, think about places that are charging $300.00-$700.00 per DAY for WILDERNESS "therapy."  They're making an ENORMOUS profit.

They give the kids virtually no gear, no facilities, no medical treatment, hardly any food and supply a couple of uneducated, untrained staff that get paid $400.00 per WEEK.  Make no mistake about it, they're RAKING IT IN.

If they weren't in it for the money, why would they resist regulation so vehemently?  

I'll tell you why.  It's because if they're regulated, they will have to provide actual SERVICES and ADEQUATE care, and that costs MONEY, which will have to come out of their pockets.

If they were in it to help children, don't you think they'd want to use the best possible practices as outlined by the government and professional groups like the APA?

If so, why don't they?

[Anonymous]

No Gear?  My kid came home from wilderness with hundreds of dollars worth of excellent backwoods gear- everything from a pack to parkas and hiking boots.  He came home from TBS with a laptop and a PDA.
I don't think you have any concept of what it costs to run these places.  Don't forget insurance, benefits for full-time staff, rent or mortgage for the places with extensive facilites.....

[Troll Control]

On 2005-08-14 12:24:00, Anonymous wrote:

"No Gear?  My kid came home from wilderness with hundreds of dollars worth of excellent backwoods gear- everything from a pack to parkas and hiking boots.  He came home from TBS with a laptop and a PDA.

I don't think you have any concept of what it costs to run these places.  Don't forget insurance, benefits for full-time staff, rent or mortgage for the places with extensive facilites.....

"

"Hundreds of dollars" worth of stuff..  Let's see, that's about  one half of one day's fee.  How generous.

"A laptop and PDA," too.  That's about five day's worth of fees.  Very generous indeed.

"Send your kid to us for 18 months of reprogramming and receive a free laptop and PDA!"  

Great advertising gimmick.

_________________
"Compassion is the basis of morality"

-Arnold Schopenhauer[ This Message was edited by: Dysfunction Junction on 2005-08-14 14:00 ]

[Anonymous]

The previous poster was pointing out how full of shit you are Dysfunction-  you claimed the kids were given no gear and he proved you wrong.  Everything you say is just fiction and it is nice to have someone point it out.  The issue wasn't wether the gear was worth the fees.  It was that the kids were not out in the wilderness without equipment.  You LOVE to dodge the issues, don't you.  And you accuse others of doing that!!!

[Deborah]

They're totally clueless that they actually 'paid' for those 'freebies'.
Can we say more program deception and manipulation?
Nothing is 'free'.
Do they actually tell the parents that the stuff is free, a 'gift'? Or supplies purchased with tuition money?

Wilderness probably sends the stuff home because they can't legally give it to someone else to wear due to reasons of hygiene, and because the parents did pay for it. Probably serves as a good reminder for the kid too- better stay in line. Your gear is packed and ready to go if need be.

[Anonymous]

Oh, Deborah, I'm so glad you weighed in here with another stupid post.  The issue wasn't the cost of the gear- it was the care given to the students in the programs.  Remember- you claim they are all abused and left to rot in deep pits in the ground.  You can't stand the concept that they are actually given top-notch equipment and are learning a respect for nature and the outdoors along with their therapy.
It must be time for your Prozac.

[Deborah]

***The previous poster was pointing out how full of shit you are Dysfunction- you claimed the kids were given no gear and HE proved you wrong.

How did Anon2 know that Anon1 was male?
Are Pete and Karen back, tag teaming it anonymously?

There's a difference between "NO gear" and "virtually no gear".

[Deborah]

***Oh, Deborah, I'm so glad you weighed in here with another stupid post. The issue wasn't the cost of the gear- it was the care given to the students in the programs.**

I beg to differ. First mention of gear:
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... 110#123280

Damn sure wasn?t in the context of 'care given to the students', but of COST TO RUN A PROGRAM.
Try to stay on topic.

While some may develop an appreciation for nature, I think it's more likely that an aversion is created because they are taken to live in nature, with very few provisions as PUNISHMENT.

Top-notch equipment didn't prevent the deaths of 50 some kids. Perhaps 'the care given' is the next worthy issue of discussion.

[Anonymous]

"They give the kids virtually no gear, no facilities, no medical treatment, hardly any food and supply a couple of uneducated, untrained staff that get paid $400.00 per WEEK"

This is a flat lie.  But what's new- the usual mode of the Fornitscators.