Author Topic: Note to John Underwood  (Read 24682 times)

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Offline Antigen

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Note to John Underwood
« Reply #75 on: August 12, 2005, 11:09:00 AM »
Don't ya' get it, anon? We're not in group anymore. You can't shut down dissent w/ lame ridicule. I can just talk to someone else or drop it if you don't wish to discuss this topic. If we were in group, I'd be dependent on you (the pro faction) for basic care and comfort as well as all social contact. But we're not. I'm in my home w/ my family. Tough I'd like to know your thoughts on the narrow question of isolation and the broader question of the whole method, I don't need your approval or affection. I'm fine w/o it.

RAMPANT talking out in group, bruthuhs and sistahs! That's the cure, I'm convinced of it!

The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by an endless series of hobgoblins; all of them imaginary.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0679728953/circlofmiamithem' target='_new'> H.L. Mencken, 1923

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Offline wtaylorg

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Note to John Underwood
« Reply #76 on: August 12, 2005, 11:56:00 AM »
Hello everyone. It has been sometime since I posted. But, with all the activity relating to JU posting I just felt like I was inclined to say something. I came into the Seed in 1978.  JU was long gone by then. I was apart of the Seed until 1985. So I had 7 yrs.  I only heard JU's name mentioned a few times during my time there. As with any person who left without Art's blessing? Did he or not?They were seldom if ever talked about.

So my point? Let him have his opinion. He wasn't there for the "real" Seed. I don't believe he knows the "real" Seed. The one he knew was a large organization with many staff members and a little bit of freedom in terms of having relationships with family, friends outside the Seed, etc. His Seed seemed like it was about putting butts in the seats and changing the world as they knew it. The Seed I left was a closed little world. There was no personal freedom. It seemed to me looking back at it that the changing the world mentality had been replaced by a shut the world out idea. A they are a__holes, we're the chosen ones mentality. I left before it was about making money. My Seed said money had no "real value. So most of us worked dead end jobs if any job at all.

I wish I had seen people being helped. All I really saw was people substituting one set of crutches for another.
So, when I read his postings, It's simply not the Seed I knew.  When I read the postings of Cleveland and 80's Guy, and others, that's the Seed I knew.
For what it's worth.
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Offline cleveland

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Note to John Underwood
« Reply #77 on: August 12, 2005, 12:15:00 PM »
Wtaylor, it is always good to hear from you. By the way, my brother E. says hello. I knew you guys were friends. We've been talking about this site for a while. I don't think he reads here too often these days, but I fill him in from time to time.

I think by the time we left it, the 'little flaws' in the program had become big ones. I totally agree. You cannont create a society based on partial access to truth or power, and have it survive.

I think it's interesting, since someone posted elsewhere that Art hated the republicans and voted for democrats. When I could vote in 1980 and was a loyal seedling, I voted for Reagan and I know a lot of others did too. He was a lot like Art - charisma, showbiz, full of lots of talk about America and patriotism. So much greater than that little guy Carter, carping on about energy conservation and admitting that he had 'lust in his heart.' We hated him. Boy were we wrong. And now look at the current administration, waving the flag and stomping out the loyal opposition. You know, George Bush hates dissent too, Robin. It used to work for him too. He is surrounded by yes men and women. How about Ann Coulter? Want to debate her? (Sorry my politics are showing). Anyway. I think closed societies on the right or the left, that don't tolerate debate and dissent, are both the same. No difference. Same flaws, different flags. So if the Seed voted democrat and Straight voted republican, their politics had the same flavor.
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Offline Antigen

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Note to John Underwood
« Reply #78 on: August 12, 2005, 12:29:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-08-12 09:15:00, cleveland wrote:

Same flaws, different flags. So if the Seed voted democrat and Straight voted republican, their politics had the same flavor.


Exactly!

It may be that our role on this planet is not to worship God, but to create him.
--Arthur C. Clarke, author

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Offline Stripe

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Note to John Underwood
« Reply #79 on: August 12, 2005, 02:41:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-08-11 13:18:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Oh ya stripe thanks for including all the unnecessary added drama. "


You are welcome.
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The person who stands up and says, ``This is stupid,\'\' either is asked to `behave\' or, worse, is greeted with a cheerful ``Yes, we know! Isn\'t it terrific ?\'\' -- Frank Zappa

Offline Anonymous

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Note to John Underwood
« Reply #80 on: August 12, 2005, 02:50:00 PM »
Hey WTAYLOR,

"Welcome back your dreams were your ticket out". John Sebastain :grin:
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Offline JDUKE

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Note to John Underwood
« Reply #81 on: August 12, 2005, 05:31:00 PM »
:wave:  :wave:  :wave:

Have a good weekend y'all

For something that has spread with all the forethought of kudzu, the Internet isn't half bad."
-- Newsweek, 2/27/95

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Offline Ft. Lauderdale

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Note to John Underwood
« Reply #82 on: August 13, 2005, 04:19:00 PM »
I love this site, because I've been able to reconnect with some old friends and make some new ones.  (and maybe a new enemy or two??)  :grin: I was glad to see JU post.  I havn't seen him in probably some 25 years.  Alot of good memories came to mind.  I remember for, I think my 20th birthday JU gave me a watch for my birthday which I still have (It may not still work, but I still have it.) It was a very nice watch.  He used to call me  Terrence Clarence which I both liked and hated for apparent reasons.
He also told me that I would probably end up as a shoe salesman at KMart.  Which I guess I did wind up being a salesman of some sort. I remember driving around with him in his Maroon Grand Prix and if we were on the highway and couldn't pass someone he would call it "The ole box play" which I think of and still say to myself today. I also remember rushing to see "The Sting" with a bunch of us when the group no longer went from 10 to 10, back when you could still smoke at the movies.   John was a good example to me as a teenager and into my twenties.  He made a difference in my life.  I felt he cared about me and looked after me.  John I guess I'm saying thanks for caring about me and taking the time to make a difference in my life.  

I was able to reconnect with Wally Gater, who I think the world of.  I've also chatted with Thom, MG and Wtaylorg and Robin Martin, who I have had some great conversations with. CG who I think is a great guy and good friend. 80's guy or is it 90's guy has been a close friend through it all for alot of years and I resprct him immensely.
I just wanted to say something nice about some people too.  I'm glad that CG and Wally started it off.  
Antigen & Greg, thanks for this site.  I don't hardly agree with much you say but thanks for the site.  I do think its a healthy thing for everyone.
signed,
Terrence Clarence
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Offline Ft. Lauderdale

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Note to John Underwood
« Reply #83 on: August 13, 2005, 04:48:00 PM »
I also left one person that I reconnected with I couldn't remember their posting name. RJFRO22, god it took me forever to find your posting name
but your the best- thanks. Oh yeah - also RB.
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Offline GregFL

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Note to John Underwood
« Reply #84 on: August 16, 2005, 11:26:00 AM »
Hey, thank you too. I really enjoy all of you, especially when we are all getting along.

I think you agree with some of what I say..certainly you must!   :grin:  :grin:  :grin:

In all seriousness, that is not all that important to me. I know you and I had vastly different experiences. I understand now that I was probably in at the worst time, in the worst location (according to my conversatin with JU, he thought Cleveland and St Pete were out of control).  

I strongly disagree with the methods used at the seed, but that is meangingless in the context of the people here.

Robin, I know you are reading and I haven't said this, but I would respectfully like you to reconsider participating. No one is asking you to agree, and I think you went south on the whole "peer pressure being applied" speech.  Disagreeing is what we do best!   :grin:  

 Come back and participate if you feel like it, you will be welcomed back with open arms. If not, take care and call me or email me sometime!
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Offline Ft. Lauderdale

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Note to John Underwood
« Reply #85 on: August 16, 2005, 12:41:00 PM »
See and you guys thought Greg, couldn't be a nice guy.
 ::bigsmilebounce:: [ This Message was edited by: Ft. Lauderdale on 2005-08-16 09:41 ]
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Offline Anonymous

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Note to John Underwood
« Reply #86 on: August 16, 2005, 08:11:00 PM »
Don't let his secret out...He is
a very good guy!
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Offline wtaylorg

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Note to John Underwood
« Reply #87 on: August 22, 2005, 06:02:00 PM »
First off Hi Cleveland, and say hi to E for me.
I remember first running into you up in Clev. after we both left '86? and you asked me to your apt. in Little Italy. You were painting some fish and we talked about the Seed a little and I said I believed I had left on good terms.
I know you woke me up by telling me how "they" staff had really viewed me. Among other things, I learned, I wasn't allowed to be around Julio, and other newbys alone. That always at the beach there would be you or JA or someone else with us. And when someone asked about my leaving- Bob W, referred to me as a mixed up guy who didn't know what he had.
At the time that truth hurt my feelings, because somewhere apart of me wanted to believe that the Seed really liked me?

So, like you I was out in the world rudderless and a newby, but after yrs of thinking so little of myself while at the Seed, I began aslow learning who I was. I studied ART and found I was good in design and I went to CA and studied Ilustration and Computer Animation and learned I could learn after all. I became a liberal and then a conservative and now liberal again.
All the things we missed out by being at the Seed I have done. I choose to be drug-free, but many of my best friends either drink or smoke pot sometimes.
I have seen the stars from the Joshua Tree and felt closer to God then at anytime at the Seed
So yeah, we learn and experience and now we don't have to watch others live the good life.
Take Care
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Offline cleveland

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Note to John Underwood
« Reply #88 on: August 23, 2005, 10:12:00 AM »
wtaylor, you always were a good guy and i am glad that you have discovered art. there is nothing like creativity and one of the saddest things for me about the seed was that for most of us, creativity was inhibited. when i told staff that i wanted to go to art school i was told, 'art is for girls.' can you believe it? i was straight for 6 years or so, and i was made to feel less manly because i wanted to express myself. and staff members, who i was not to question, told me this!

anyway. i am kind of sad that i was the one to disillusion you, because i wanted to believe in this too. i had forgotten about telling you those things. i do recall you were just matter of fact about it, i didn't know i was playing the role.

E says hello. did you know he's kind of famous now? went to iraq with the first recon unit and wrote, 'generation kill.' has won all sorts of awards for it too. doing well.

you know, we all wanted to believe so badly in something. esprit de corps. i am so glad to have the opportunity to develop some objective thoughts about those years.

w
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Offline Napolean Bonafart

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Note to John Underwood
« Reply #89 on: August 23, 2005, 11:29:00 AM »
Course you know the only cure for that there acid trips was the true brain salad surgery.....................which is PSYPATROPICS!!!!!!! Go see your mental ward today and go on the dole. Don't worry Isreal is fitting the bill as usual. Then maybe you can get some relief from your probs. I take 'em everyday. Just love it. I call mine vitamin T which stands for thorozine. Gee I hope none of you are on meth..........you'll choke on phenothiazines. oh well BE Blessed y'all it's another human rights reform anyway.
"Mine Eyes have seen the Glory of The Coming Of The Lord" and man was that a terrible day that day, oh well swing low sweet chariot.[ This Message was edited by: The Root Of Jesse on 2005-08-23 08:32 ]
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quot;Thank you peanut gallery\"