Typical Day at Sagewalk

[Nonconformistlaw]

I have to confirm and agree with some things Deborah pointed out. I have also experienced, and still do to this day as a matter of fact, the very same post-program symptoms ---here are the points she made that I noticed in myself post program:

------"He seems guarded, serious," etc----------

------"It appears that it's hard for him to feel like he's part of the group. He doesn't speak up and let his voice be heard. Just kinda lethargic, goes along, or splits and does his own thing (isolates). My sense is that there is still a feeling of deprivation he's trying to compensate for, rightfully so. As well as an avoidance of taking risks and at all costs, avoids conflict."--------

-----"While he appears fine on the surface- has friends and is well liked- I see the insecurity."----------

-----"He felt like he'd been sent to hell, and in fact, he had been."----------

And in response to what you said here Deborah...-----"There are moments when I see MY son, and that gives me hope that the programming will eventually wear off."------------

Even though I say I still exhibit much of the exact same post program damage so many years later....I think your son stands a great chance of putting some of those bad pogramming effects behind him....in my opinion anyway, I think he'll do well because he has an enlightened parent like your self who obviously cares enough to help him through his post program difficulties...
 ::rainbow::

[Nonconformistlaw]

Anon said --------"Wonder if it is time to step up to the plate and give up the black and white thinking--and talk to him about the bad AND the good of what he has experienced."
WOW anon! My what a great idea :idea:  :idea:

Anon, I think you should practice what you preach! :roll:

I wonder if its time for YOU, ANON, to step up to the plate and give up the black and white Pro-progam thinking---and talk about the bad and good of program experiences....

You have quite the knack of posting nothing but pro-program propoganda, never once acknowleging that there are valid program horror stories...you always brush the bad points aside, then start yappping about how anti program people are just angry...insinuating, and, blatently saying that we have no valid complaints....

So again which program has such a great academic program? Its easier to discuss the good and bad points with concrete examples, evidence etc.. :em:

[Anonymous]

I don't think any student has died while at Hidden Lake. Not sure about Carlbrook or Oakley or Cascade.

[Anonymous]

To Nonconformistlaw---you seem to have morphed more than one anon poster into your recent response referring to ignoring horror stories re various programs.

I'm the anon calling Deb on her shit with her son---and based on her past postings I've got to believe that whatever her son went thru at his school is likely a small thing compared to the psychological manipulation that the poor kid is facing now at home with his dear old mom---cuz if he ever even thought about something good in his school experience (and what kid doesn't find something good in most experiences?)---old Deb would be on him like a duck on a June bug---I mean she couldn't let that stand, could she?---that would invalidate her whole reason for being at the moment--- not to mention most of her 3 million fucking lengthy posts at this site.


I'm sure there's shitty programs out there so I have no dog in that fight you're trying to pick.   And about the program with the great academics---that seems to pertain to a post by a different anon my man---you'll have to take that up with the other poster.  Get this: "anon" is generic: it doesn't refer to just one poster

[Anonymous]

On 2005-08-26 19:05:00, Anonymous wrote:

"To Nonconformistlaw---you seem to have morphed more than one anon poster into your recent response referring to ignoring horror stories re various programs.



I'm the anon calling Deb on her shit with her son---and based on her past postings I've got to believe that whatever her son went thru at his school is likely a small thing compared to the psychological manipulation that the poor kid is facing now at home with his dear old mom---cuz if he ever even thought about something good in his school experience (and what kid doesn't find something good in most experiences?)---old Deb would be on him like a duck on a June bug---I mean she couldn't let that stand, could she?---that would invalidate her whole reason for being at the moment--- not to mention most of her 3 million fucking lengthy posts at this site.





I'm sure there's shitty programs out there so I have no dog in that fight you're trying to pick.   And about the program with the great academics---that seems to pertain to a post by a different anon my man---you'll have to take that up with the other poster.  Get this: "anon" is generic: it doesn't refer to just one poster"

 :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :wave:

[Anonymous]

Hmmm- if I'm a Karen I have changed genders.

[Anonymous]

That's hot.  ::kiss::

[Nonconformistlaw]

To the anon that said------"To Nonconformistlaw---you seem to have morphed more than one anon poster into your recent response referring to ignoring horror stories re various programs.

I'm the anon calling Deb on her shit with her son---and based on her past postings I've got to believe that whatever her son went thru at his school is likely a small thing compared to the psychological manipulation that the poor kid is facing now at home with his dear old mom---cuz if he ever even thought about something good in his school experience (and what kid doesn't find something good in most experiences?)---old Deb would be on him like a duck on a June bug---I mean she couldn't let that stand, could she?---that would invalidate her whole reason for being at the moment--- not to mention most of her 3 million fucking lengthy posts at this site.

I'm sure there's shitty programs out there so I have no dog in that fight you're trying to pick. And about the program with the great academics---that seems to pertain to a post by a different anon my man---you'll have to take that up with the other poster. Get this: "anon" is generic: it doesn't refer to just one poster"------------
________________________________________________

First of all to this little tidbit -----"'anon' is generic: it doesn't refer to just one poster"------------ NO SHIT, you dont say???   :wave:

In your astute observations, I am 100% sure that you have noticed the lengths I have gone to in order to try to keep the anons straight...I do this by including quotes then addressing them....aside fom that there is no other way to differential those of you who deilberately remain under the bag....It would be difficult to get confused if say...Oh I dont know, you use a damn user name and login???

And as far as your unsupported allegations against Deborah, what evidence do you have to support that she is "manipulating her son"? You have none...you said so yourself when you said "I've got to believe, etc" This just proves to me that you chose to believe what YOU WANT TO BELIEVE, without any regard for the ACTUAL TRUTH about Deborah...this is your opinion, and NOT a factual conclusion.....

I would have much prefered to have a parent who was willing to listen to my side of things instead of having parents who bought program BS...looks more to me like more program parents should follow the great example Deborah sets. I wish I had a parent like her after I got out of hell/program.

[Anonymous]

".looks more to me like more program parents should follow the great example Deborah sets. I wish I had a parent like her after I got out of hell/program"

Oh, God. Spare us from more Deborahs.

[Anonymous]

I wish I had a parent like her after I got out of hell/program.

I agree.

[Deborah]

FYI, I have heard the good, what little there was, and none was associated with the day-to-day life at the 'program'. One staff in particular treated him with genuine respect, acknowledged his skills, values, maturity, and leadership qualities- thought he was two years older than he actually was. This person also had the integrity and decency to compliment me on my parenting and to futher state that he shouldn't be there- something the egomaniacs he dealt with on a daily basis loved to take credit for. Unfortunately, he only spent 28 days of his 20 month sentence with this person.

We don't discuss it unless he brings it up. He chooses, at this point in time, not to think about it because he'd rather not feel the rage. That will mellow and there will be a time for revisiting the experience. For now, he's enjoying life and making up for the two years that were taken from him by sadistic, money grubbing 'helpers'.

How bout you knock off the shade tree analysis and cop to why I'm a burr in your butt?

What about my story infuriates you?

Come on, it's your chance to have a much needed  breakthrough.

And, I'm just dying to know why you are so invested in me, what I have to say, and my son's well being.

[Shortbus]

I know what gets to me when I read your posts... your undying belief that all programs are bad. Not just the program you dealth with but all the other ones too. Thats up there with having a bad meal in a restaurant therefore all meals in all restaurants will be bad. But youre quick to get all over someone elses  shit if they say they had a good experience with a program. These arent the people that are preaching that all programs are good, just the one they used.

[Deborah]

Gee Shortbus, thanks for sharing what really 'gets to you'.

Now, whose shit exactly did I get all over?
It certainly wasn't yours.
I forget... which program are you here to defend?

I know you haven't been around long, but let me give you a glimmer of what has contributed to my 'attitude'.

My older son was heinously abused for six months in a military boarding school which resulted in severely dibilitating 'PTSD' and a successful lawsuit.
Four years later my younger son was boarded in a different military BS. A week after he arrived his dorm officer was arrested for molesting his charges. My son reported him. There's been another incident recently, so they changed their name. That should help, huh?  :lol:
Then he was off to a TBS for two years. While he had no run-ins with pedophiles, he did have to endure some lovely, sincere but misguided, 'helpers', probably not too much unlike yourself.
My neighbor's son was killed at Skyline Journey. Perhaps you read about that?
A colleague's grandson was sexually abused at a RTC in Waco, Tx which resulted in a lawsuit.
My best friend was incarcerated in a program in the 70s. Ran, was raped, and said it was less traumatic than the program.
My mother was sent along with her 'acting out' twin to a reform school back in the late 40s to have the devil beat out them. Guess mom was guilty by genetic association.  :lol:  A story I never heard until the unpleasant reality  of programs crashed into my/our lives.
Let's see, am I forgetting anyone?

Pardon my skepticism, which I won't apologize for. I don't have any lovely stories to share. I think parents are rolling the dice when they abdicate responsibility for thier children.
Do you have children Shorbus?

We could also discuss the 100+ children that were 'helped' to a premature death. Or shall we continue to pretend that wilderness in particular has no inherent risks? Know any other forms of adolescent therapy that includes the risk of serious injury or death?



 [ This Message was edited by: Deborah on 2005-08-27 00:52 ]

[Troll Control]

On 2005-08-26 10:19:00, Anonymous wrote:

"

On 2005-08-26 09:15:00, Anonymous wrote:


"Yeah, the smart kids are onto something, Ginger.  That's why they were stealing cars, doing drugs, blowing off their educations.  Can't understand why we would want to redirect their efforts. "

The simple fact you generalize tens of thousands of teens shows your idiocy. You are gravely uninformed, and obvious unexperienced. Your hate for yourself shows quite clear, however."

Karen, I thought I told you to get back under the bridge...

BACK!  Back under the bridge, troll!

[Anonymous]

Oh, good. Dysfunctional is back. How did we manage without his insightful comments. I think we should all go by the name Karen, since you idiots think only one person (the alleged Karen) opposes your one-trick show here.