Typical Day at Sagewalk

[Anonymous]

Can I make a suggestion - please take the Ed Consultants advice from who they are; they are not "Doctors" they are their to serve a purpose (most often their purpose of drumming up business for themselves) they all refer to the same "troubled teen, or struggling teen" programs, to TBS or Wilderness, much less regulated that real Residential Treatment Center's or Residential Schools.  They are not your long term therapists - your family therapists - and most often are recently just in the picture.  I am not saying they are all bad in general but I have a real problem with an Ed Consultant giving theraputic or parenting advice - does this person even have children of their own?
Buyer Beware is my new theme!

[Anonymous]

'Sorry, I don't understand what you mean by "trepanation." And as for giving him "speed," we relucantly agreed to try Adderall to help him with his ADHD. We had fought the idea and refused it for years. He says it is helping him with his concentration; his teachers see a difference too. I wonder if we had tried it earlier on if he would have then felt more success at school and then would not have turned to the drug-using, outcast crowd he has been hanging with. I would very much prefer he not be on any meds., but try to find an alternative -- we have spent a lot of time and effort trying to find other ways through alternative therapy, etc. and there's just not a lot out there, at least where we live. We finally think we have found some good people to help him. If you could have seen our son before he was being helped with meds. for his anxiety disorder, you would not be so quick to criticize/generalize about giving kids medication. He was a wreck.
I think it's important to respect that there are different solutions for different situations; just as wilderness camp is not the answer-all for every troubled kid, medicating your child is not always a bad decision if it's used in conjunction with productive therapy. Please don't throw stones...we're trying our best to do what's right for our kid and our situation.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for your kind wisdom. I do agree that the threat of inpatient treatment (even though we are not presenting it as a "threat," but rather more intensive "help,") may be currently deterring him from use but is not helping him in the long run.
From what we have learned from family group, we have to create a safety net where he knows that he will have us there for him even if he slips up. I have to keep that in mind. We realize too that it IS ultimately up to him to make a lifelong commitment to sobriety...but as parents we are still in the "we can fix it" mode...but we try to remember the three Cs...we didn't cause it, we can't control it, and we can't cure it. Agggghh. It's tough.

[Deborah]

While you may be seeing some 'positive' effects from Adderall, you should be aware that there are potentially some long-term negative effects to his health.
My sister relented and put her son on Adderall in order to get other services for him- a quieter place to study/test. He was on it during the school year for a couple of years, and only during the week. He ate very little during the week, binged and puked all weekend. He is now having neuorlogical problems- severe, blinding migrane headaches that send them to the ER. I personally wouldn't consider this a 'solution'. It is just as damaging as if you were giving him small amounts of Cocaine on a daily basis. You can read more on the topic and consider some effective options in this thread:
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... art=0#5474
Search WWF for ADHD for more info worth considering.

There are studies that indicate that keeping a child at home and working as a family is more effective. Here's one:
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... =110#31298

I think TSW has given some good advice in terms of developing a fun and supportive relationship with your child. I particularly appreciated his use of humor to defuse a potentially volatile situation:
http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.ph ... &forum=9&0

I think teens grow weary of all the seriousness around them. It's amazing how cooperative they become when situations are infused with a little humor. Common sense leading questions can also help them arrive at more constructive choices, and no resentment toward you for having lectured or demanded.

Anxiety = fear. What factors in your son's life could be causing fear or insecurity?

[Anonymous]

Do you ever think your son might be smoking marijuana to help control his anxiety on his own?

Okay, this is going to seem completely politically incorrect but I will say it anyways. Did you ever think that adderall might be worse for him than marijuana is?

It really bothers me when drug counselors, or society in general will call you a 'drug user' for smoking marijuana, but taking adderall and similar medication is called just that, medication.

Marijuana is not a drug, it is a plant-- in it's God given natural form. You can even receive a prescription for marijuana now in 10 [maybe 12 now?] states.

Alcohol is a drug, meth and cocaine are drugs. These are physically addictive and pose much more risk to the average user of these substances than marijuana ever will.

I am not suggesting everyone tell their kids to go smoke pot, but what I do hope is that parents will eventually realize that villifying pot has negative consequences they never intended. I have met people afraid to touch pot, and have no problem downing 8 beers a day for years non-stop. People who think 'E' is safer than pot, etc. This is all due to the governement propoganda over the decades, and this generation of parents have taken it to heart. They actually believe marijuana is dangerous for some reason.

My point? Smoking pot is not life threatening, it is life enhancing. People smoke pot for a reason, because it helps. Unlike prozac, buspar and similar drugs, pot actually works- and doesn't have any nasty side effects. Other than possibly eating too many oreos!  :lol:

[/end rant]

[Anonymous]

On 2005-07-30 06:38:00, Anonymous wrote:

"My husband and son just got back from a rigorous group camping and canoeing trip. They really enjoyed it and we plan on more trips. The only piece you suggested that we're missing is the month-long outdoor/wilderness ("non-therapeutic") experience but we have a place in mind that sounds appropriate if that is the path we decide to take.



It is exhausting, sometimes downright hellish, but it just makes so much more sense to work things out at home. We have always been a close, loving family and we will NOT give up on our son. He has been dealt an alcoholic, drug-abusing gene pool, as well as other mental health issues that have made him more prone to drug abuse, and our sometimes too-flexible parenting hasn't helped, but we are in this together and will fight it through.

"

 :nworthy:  :nworthy:  :nworthy:  :nworthy:  :nworthy:  :nworthy:

Please don't give up on your son! He will know what you did for him when he is older, believe me.  :smile:

[Antigen]

On 2005-07-30 07:31:00, Anonymous wrote:

"'Sorry, I don't understand what you mean by "trepanation." And as for giving him "speed," we relucantly agreed to try Adderall to help him with his ADHD.

Please don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to throw stones. I don't presume to know anywhere near enough about you, your son or the rest of the situation to tell you what to do. I do, however, know of some common pitfalls when dealing w/ the helping industry.

I have a daughter who has a serious physical ailment requiring ongoing (probably lifelong) medical attention. She's seen at clinic from time to time by a tag team of some of the finest physicians on the plane (no joke, they're world renowned in their field) While I like and respect them all, my favorite is the old guy who is the primary researcher on the team. He's the one who will come into the room, look over the meds list and start asking questions directed at reducing that list. Very often, by the time we land on his rotation, there are meds and therapies going on that conflict w/ each other.

That's pretty much my context for reference when I hear about amphetamines and anxiety. If the meds are working, great! But what's wrong w/ using cannabis if it helps too? Aside, of course, from the fact that (at the moment) it's illegal. Most medical pros who are familiar w/ the effects and research on cannabis agree that it is not addictive. So it's hard to understand why you'd have your son treated for cannabis addiction, unless someone's pulling your leg on that one.

Here's a link on trepanation:
http://www.trepanationguide.com/

I'm being snide here. But I'm trying to make a point. There really are reasonably inteligent, successful people who actually believe that you can inprove your mental health by drilling a hole in your skull. I find that just exactly as compelling as those reasonably inteligent, successful people who believe that forced behavior mod is good for troubled kids.

It is wrong to leave a stumbling stone in the road after it has tripped you.
http://fornits.com/wwf/bb_profile.php?mode=view&user=1005' target='_new'>Hands Out Light

[Anonymous]

On 2005-07-30 09:20:00, Antigen wrote:

"
Here's a link on trepanation:

http://www.trepanationguide.com/"

That is very disturbing.  :scared:

[Anonymous]

I don't disagree with what anyone is saying--and if marijuana was legal and could be injested without smoking it, and if it was regulated for quality, etc. I would be all for him using it. He has said that it makes him feel normal. (Smoking it or cigarettes for that matter will kill him, sooner or later. We lost my father-in-law at age 52 from smoking-induced cancer and that's yet another reason I don't want him smoking anything.) But he's already in the legal system (arrested for possession); he's already been suspended from school for possession, and the reality is that it's NOT legal now--so we have to live with the reality.

I totally agree that we and other parents focus too much on the negative, are too serious, and need to lighten up. I just get anxious because I know where he could be heading, given the fact that we have seen a lot of friends' lives ruined due to drug/alcohol use.

But in the end, he has to make the decisions that will shape his life. We know that. We are just trying to give him the guidance and tools we think he needs. We are also aware that we need to back off, and we are doing that, so he can make his own choices and live with the consequences of his own choices, good or not so good.

I really appreciate all of your thoughts--thanks!

[Anonymous]

Parents- you would be better off getting advice from http://www.strugglingteens.com than from here.  This site is a militaristic group of disgruntled teens and young adults (with a few disgruntled adults thrown in who can't get past their teens) and the advice is not reliable.

[Anonymous]

On 2005-07-30 12:51:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Parents- you would be better off getting advice from http://www.strugglingteens.com than from here.  This site is a militaristic group of disgruntled teens and young adults (with a few disgruntled adults thrown in who can't get past their teens) and the advice is not reliable.  "

Strugglingteens.com is a hategroup, managed and populated by parents who GAVE UP ON THEIR KIDS, and sent them off to be abused and programmed. While the kids endure all these horrors, their parents post on the strugglingteens.com message board, patting each other on the back and assuring each other that they have made "the loving choice"  :roll: for their kid.

These are parents who gave up on being parents. These are parents who blame their children for their own deficiencies, and who refuse to take responsibilty for what is going on in their own homes. Instead of taking actions, they pay strangers to raise their child for them.

[Antigen]

I think that, as parental worries go, marijuana is extremely overblown. Oh, if only it were just the parents and not so many other adults w/ authority over kids. I wonder if there's a way to get a Canadian rx for Sativex
http://www.gwpharm.com/ If, in fact, it's a better drug for your son than amphetamines, that would remove the smoking, legal concerns and most of the 'forbidden fruit' allure.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/03/ ... 3022.shtml

But, bottom line, the only thing I really worry about from what you've said is the idea of your putting him in long term residential drug treatment over this. There is no such thing as marijuana addiction. Habituation? Yes. But that's not an illness that can be treated, it's a choice or series of choices. I can't emphasize enough to you what a monumental mind f*** it is to be imprisoned by a bunch of anti-drug zealots who insist that you confess and then pretend and/or believe you're an addict when you're not.

The most fundamental purpose of government is defense, not empire.
--Joseph Sobran

[Anonymous]

As a parent of a teen, (not militaristic, not disgruntled, just trying to do the right thing for our child) I would much rather be conversing with people on this site, young, old, disgruntled or not. At least these are real people with real experiences. Don't believe all you read on http://www.strugglingteeens.com...it's not what it seems.

[Anonymous]

On 2005-07-30 13:06:00, Anonymous wrote:

"

On 2005-07-30 12:51:00, Anonymous wrote:


"Parents- you would be better off getting advice from http://www.strugglingteens.com than from here.  This site is a militaristic group of disgruntled teens and young adults (with a few disgruntled adults thrown in who can't get past their teens) and the advice is not reliable.  "

Strugglingteens.com is a hategroup, managed and populated by parents who GAVE UP ON THEIR KIDS, and sent them off to be abused and programmed. While the kids endure all these horrors, their parents post on the strugglingteens.com message board, patting each other on the back and assuring each other that they have made "the loving choice"  :roll: for their kid.



These are parents who gave up on being parents. These are parents who blame their children for their own deficiencies, and who refuse to take responsibilty for what is going on in their own homes. Instead of taking actions, they pay strangers to raise their child for them. "

Not only that, these struggling parents appear to have a chip on their shoulder the size of a boulder.

All they do is whine, pat each other on the back every time a kid gets sent away, and kiss the butt of their moderator who deletes the dreadful anti-teen-help posts.

It's downright disgusting.

Censorship is alive and well in Teen Help Land.

[BuzzKill]

The heavy handed censorship is my major complaint with Lon's board.
I understand they want to avoid situations like they had when Sue and her alter egos were posting away; but they have taken the "moderating" to far, IMO.
I have often thought it was really no more than an extension of the Program's BBS. Its very easy to get yourself banned over there.