A argument about camping, and the safey at Brat Camp
KareninDallas
Member
Member # 3697
posted July 14, 2005 06:41 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Great post, Gordon. Thanks. I am a big believer in the reputable wilderness programs. I think my son made more progress in wilderness than at TBS, actually. He, too, did two stints. There is something magical about the outdoors- my son did a three day solo on his second stint (at his request). I have read much of what he wrote during wilderness, and it was gut-wrenching to see him slowly come to grips with why he was there and what HE had done to get himself there. He later told me that the wilderness therapy was a lot more pure than the TBS program. He had excellent therapists at both places, but at the TBS he said there was a lot of political jockeying by the kids to gain favor- more ratting out of other kids etc. I continue to believe that his wilderness therapist, who is one of the founders of the particular program my son attended, is one of the most gifted people I have ever met.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 361 | From: Dallas, TX | Registered: Jun 2003 | Logged: 209.30.38.142 |
OverLordd
Member
Member # 4821
posted July 14, 2005 07:04 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There is something magical about the outdoors-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
::Stares at her, for some reason he can't get past this phrase. while he disagrees with the rest of the post this is what is like a smack in the face to him. Anger, frustration, sadness, pity, rage, it all swirs together into a massive ball. He can't respond for fear of exploding. Frowns deeply at her, completely at a loss for words. He has never felt a knife like that before, not even when a friend betrays him. He gathers him self and says one thing.:: You should not comment about what is precious to me and so many other people, the out doors is NOT a magical place to fix your children.
--------------------
Remember, the impossible is just humanities way of being to lazy to use its imagination.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 37 | From: Georgia | Registered: Jun 2005 | Logged: 69.3.52.18 |
KareninDallas
Member
Member # 3697
posted July 14, 2005 07:09 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Not only is it a magical place for our children to try to find themselves (not "fix"), but it is a magical place for ALL of us to reconnect with what is important.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 361 | From: Dallas, TX | Registered: Jun 2003 | Logged: 209.30.38.142 |
OverLordd
Member
Member # 4821
posted July 14, 2005 07:15 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Not only is it a magical place for our children to try to find themselves (not "fix"), but it is a magical place for ALL of us to reconnect with what is important.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
... I just lost a lot of respect I had grown in you... You just dont understand the out doors do you? Its about freedom, being able to go up, over, down, around, climb the rocks, toss your self off a clif into the water, and be able to do whatever you want with oppresive people miles and miles away... ::sighs and stares at her:: The out doors is like my second home, yet you say things like this, why don't you just come to my home and stab me?
--------------------
Remember, the impossible is just humanities way of being to lazy to use its imagination.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 37 | From: Georgia | Registered: Jun 2005 | Logged: 69.3.52.18 |
BethLewis
Member
Member # 3608
posted July 14, 2005 08:04 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A tarp was slung over them and they had sleeping bags and their own clothing to sleep in. That, to a camper, is completely discusting!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I hate to deter from the original topic BUT... I recently survived Hurricane Cindy on a ridge of a mountain with pounding rain coming down and strong winds. Using merely a tarp, a few of my cohorts who had good tents found themselves swamped. Tarps are not only safe but on my hike of the AT from GA to WV, I used only a tarp. These ladies and gentelmen who are supervising know what's going on. It's not a walk in the park to become wilderness first responder.
Beth
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 92 | From: Philippi, WV | Registered: Apr 2003 | Logged: 207.255.214.42 |
OverLordd
Member
Member # 4821
posted July 14, 2005 08:09 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wilderness first responders are wise in their knowledge of the woods and the know whats going on thats for sure, I know a few. Your missing one major thing. THE KIDS ARE NOT CAMPERS. These kids have no clue whats going on in the woods nor are they suited for it. Sure the First Responders will be ok, but guess what, I care about the kids.
--------------------
Remember, the impossible is just humanities way of being to lazy to use its imagination.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 37 | From: Georgia | Registered: Jun 2005 | Logged: 69.3.52.18 |
Jena
Administrator
Member # 1044
posted July 14, 2005 08:18 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If the outdoors is your second home, then why have you never really camped? Camping can be nothing but a sleeping bag on the ground, or heck a bunch of blankets if you don't have a bag (been there, done that).
I have camped in many different terrains, climates and conditions. I have spent nights in the desert that were so cold our water supply froze...in nothing but a bag on the ground. I have spent nights in rain with nothing but a bag under a tree to try to get shelter from the rain (don't do that if there is lightining). I have had the luxury of a tent at times, sometimes even a cot, but there is nothing wrong with sleeping on the ground. I'm not dead, never had frostbite and haven't suffered from hypothermia or exposure yet.
One of the things I love about the outdoors is the challenge. "Dang, I'm freezing, but can I stick it out?" "Darn, I ache all over, but can I keep going?" The satisfaction that comes from meeting and exceeding those chanllenges is where the satisfaction lies....and the sense of self-reliance, confidence and spiritual healing that so many of our kids need.
My daughter has been to wilderness three times. She regularly goes camping on my farm, but she doesn't really like it. It's not "wild" enough for her. She has a three month old baby, who has been camping at least twice now. She takes the tent for the baby, which I think is prudent given the number of coyotes that frequent the place.
People are much tougher than you want to give us credit for. We are so insulated from the real world of the outdoors anymore that people actually are foolish enough to think that one will die if they don't have a tent. That's malarkey. There are conditions that do dictate what the human body can stand, but that is where an experienced outdoorsperson knows the limits. That's what the staff is there for. I'm glad you are not on staff or my kid would have been sitting in an RV instead of finding herself in the depths of **** 's Canyon (a trip she still talks about with wonder and awe).
In your supposed fight to change the industry, leave camping alone. Those of us who truly understand what the outdoors are all about would really hate to lose our ability to teach our kids how to survive and enjoy the outdoors. My granddaughter has the right to grow up with the outdoors firmly embedded in her soul, as something that has been a part of her since before she could remember. The outdoors is not made of canvas...it's made of dirt, weather, trees, rocks, animals. If you fear these things, then you do not understand. If you respect these things, you would have never written what you did.
I quit being a scout leader because their fear of liability has so overshadowed their activities that it is all meaningless anymore. I understand, but that doesn't make scouting camp, real camping.
Jena
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 999 | From: Paris, IL | Registered: Sep 2000 | Logged: 71.114.173.171 |
OverLordd
Member
Member # 4821
posted July 14, 2005 08:32 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jena, I have been "real camping" as you call it, but thats not "real camping". So don't assume I dont know survival camping.
I once spent a night in a small cave during a tornato with a survial blanket. (you know, the small reflective things.) I camped that way because I knew how, I camped that way because I had to, my shelter had been ripped appart by wind. These kids don't know how to camp Jena, they don't know any of it. I'm not saying that camping without a sleeping bag is wrong, or camping without a tent is wrong, im saying its not wise for people that dont know what their doing and its unsafe.
You Jena owe me an apology, you don't know how I treat the scouts under me, and you dont know how I camp, you don't know squat about me, you have not tried to learn. All you know is that pain is fun. Camping is not about hurting your self, nor is it about freezing, a good camper can keep this from happening to him and the people with him. Its not about pain Jena its about freedom.
DON'T YOU DARE SAY THAT I DONT KNOW THE OUT DOORS. Just because your some dis-honored Scout Leader that couldent hack it with the rules set does not mean you know how to camp and make it enjoyable, it just shows that you like to come ill prepared.
--------------------
Remember, the impossible is just humanities way of being to lazy to use its imagination.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 37 | From: Georgia | Registered: Jun 2005 | Logged: 69.3.52.18 |
I now hate the moderator and will most likely get baned.
