Author Topic: Guantanamo Bay vs Tranquility Bay  (Read 18503 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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Guantanamo Bay vs Tranquility Bay
« Reply #90 on: June 23, 2005, 02:54:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-06-23 05:57:00, OverLordd wrote:

"I want it noted, as the person who most likely has the most theological knowledge on the board (unless some one is hideing a masters of divinity somewhere) that yes, God has plans for us,"


I thought I read in another post that you are 17, if so, what you said above is a very arrogant statement to make. I don't mean to give you shit, just a reality check. You greatly underestimate the amount of wisdom on these boards. Maybe I misunderstood you...?
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Offline OverLordd

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« Reply #91 on: June 23, 2005, 03:08:00 PM »
Yes, I am 17, but I was one of the formost theolgically adept student at my old school, before I graduated. I am also the most knowledageable at my church for my age grounp, I consitantly discuss such subjects with college professors I am firends with, and  I and a friend are working on editing one of their papers. Its a hobby, somthing I am very involved in. I am guessing that there are no people very knowledageable in theology here, while I'm guessing, I think its a decent guess considering there is a topic about how to mainline smack. While this may not be a good support for my guess, but I think im kinda safe.

Its possable that I came across rude, and I apologise if I did, I ment no slight to any one on this board or any knowledge they may hold. I believ I am a expert, or close to a expert in this feild, and if some one knows more than I do, I gladly defer to said person. Thanks for checking me, some times I can come across mean or rude when I dont mean to.
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Offline Anonymous

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Guantanamo Bay vs Tranquility Bay
« Reply #92 on: June 23, 2005, 03:23:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-06-23 12:08:00, OverLordd wrote:

"I am guessing that there are no people very knowledageable in theology here, while I'm guessing, I think its a decent guess considering there is a topic about how to mainline smack. While this may not be a good support for my guess, but I think im kinda safe."


You couldn't be more wrong.

Look around the forums more, there are literally thousands of posts about theology. You can't take every thread seriously like the heroin one, it's just for shits and giggles.
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Offline OverLordd

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« Reply #93 on: June 23, 2005, 03:27:00 PM »
Quote
Look around the forums more, there are literally thousands of posts about theology. You can't take every thread seriously like the heroin one, it's just for shits and giggles.


I have personally seen ver little of these, all I see is the basic cult bashing stuff, ex stuff on mormons, im talking the stuff like Christology, studies on the nature of God, man, and sin, if you could direct me to anything like that I would greatly apreshate it, I believe you are more knowledgeable about this forum, so if you could help me that would rock.
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Offline Antigen

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Guantanamo Bay vs Tranquility Bay
« Reply #94 on: June 23, 2005, 03:28:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-06-23 12:08:00, OverLordd wrote:

 I am guessing that there are no people very knowledageable in theology here, while I'm guessing, I think its a decent guess considering there is a topic about how to mainline smack. While this may not be a good support for my guess, but I think im kinda safe.


Yeah, that is a bad indicator. If you get to know old junkies, you'll soon discover that many of them are among the smartest and most well read people around. For some, lucidity and prescience generate a need for analgesic.

Aside from that, there are well over 1000 people registered here. I don't know how many individual actually post or how often. But you'd be surprised at the diversity.

Personally, I don't put much stock in formal divinity training. You're only studying what others have believed. You may become an absolute master at it while failing consistently to take in all that nature and real life have to offer. Not saying you have done that or will do that. Just that formal education about religion, all by itself, doesn't mean much. The scribes and Saducees(sp?) and Pharisees(sp?) were highly adept at divinity studies. But they absolutely sucked at spirituality and goodness.

Suppose you were an idiot.  And suppose you were a member of Congress.  But I repeat myself.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/external-search?tag=circlofmiamithem&keyword=mark+twain&mode=books' target='_new'> Mark Twain

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Offline OverLordd

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« Reply #95 on: June 23, 2005, 03:31:00 PM »
Quote
The scribes and Saducees(sp?) and Pharisees(sp?) were highly adept at divinity studies. But they absolutely sucked at spirituality and goodness.

Your absolutely right.


Quote

Yeah, that is a bad indicator. If you get to know old junkies, you'll soon discover that many of them are among the smartest and most well read people around. For some, lucidity and prescience generate a need for analgesic.


I supose I need to rethink my view on this.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #96 on: June 23, 2005, 03:36:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-06-23 12:27:00, OverLordd wrote:

"
Quote
Look around the forums more, there are literally thousands of posts about theology. You can't take every thread seriously like the heroin one, it's just for shits and giggles.



I have personally seen ver little of these, all I see is the basic cult bashing stuff, ex stuff on mormons, im talking the stuff like Christology, studies on the nature of God, man, and sin, if you could direct me to anything like that I would greatly apreshate it, I believe you are more knowledgeable about this forum, so if you could help me that would rock."


Just search. Or start a new thread, and if anyone finds it interesting they might stop by.  :wink:
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #97 on: June 23, 2005, 07:55:00 PM »
You probably won't find a lot of play on the nitty gritty minutiae of Christian theology. However, several of the older dudes are very well read on a broad spectrum of religious beliefs. Anon's right. Post a thread in, say, Open Free For All or Tacitus Realm (all religion is politics, after all) and you may find some interesting discussion.

Religion is just mind control.
--George Carlin, comedian

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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #98 on: June 24, 2005, 07:00:00 AM »
There's tons of spiritual and religious smack users out there.  People can be on drugs and still funtion perfectly fine in society, hold a job, raise a family, study theology, and do lots of good for the world.  I think it's important to tell people how to safely use drugs, because if they're going to do it, they're going to do it.  Free will.  I think I'm getting it now.  That's why lockdowns fail as institutions towards change, because they go against free will, which =is= God's will (or the will of whichever force that brought us here.)  That force can't just take away all lockdowns in one big swoop from the stars because that's what it means to be conscious- to open our eyes to injustice.  We want so badly to believe the things we wish were true- this program will save your child, there's no abuse, there's no war, no problem, everything's fine- that we ignore the TRUTH and allow the atrocities to continue.  How many parents are so desperate that they let the program administrators just take over?  The universe can't solve our problems for us or resolve everything into a sin-free happy-go-lucky world, because then we'd cease to exist.  Conflict is the only thing keeping us around- friction, heat, life, but it all needs to keep a proper yinyang balance.  Which is why we need to keep these places in check, because if it gets out of hand in either direction, it'll throw the whole sphere off.  It seems to all make sense. just can't be expressed that easily.  Thanks to everyone for your input.   This is a great discussion
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Offline OverLordd

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« Reply #99 on: June 24, 2005, 08:53:00 AM »
There are some theological question marks (by that I mean ify statements) in what you said, but your basicly along the right lines in my view.

The only thing I would take issue with you about is that you seem to be looking more for balance than to do what is right.

I think lockdowns fail as instiutions to change because they are inhrently bad, and things that are inherently bad or evil fail over time. But your right, they do seem to go against the nature of humanity.

And about that force taking things away, that kinda grated on me, remember, God can do what he likes, he is God, you know all powerful and all that, he choices not to, I think, because it was humanities choice to start these things so we have to live with the consiquence.
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our walking down a hallway, you turn left, you turn right. BRICK WALL!

GAH!!!!

Yeah, hes a survivor.

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #100 on: June 26, 2005, 12:10:00 AM »
I'm a new user. I'm here because I recently became aware of Tranquility bay, and have been doing some research on that, and other 'Intervention centers'

to say that I'm quietly horrified is something of an understatement but... I digress.

I've read 10 pages of attack, denial, insult, and idiocy. Very few posts are lucid or worth reading. As a new user here I know that is going to sound harsh, but it's simply my opinion. Yours may differ.

If you're a survivor, congratulations. I hope you are able to piece back together your life, and mogve on from whatever damage was done to you.

If you survived and have something positive to say about your experience, I would be glad to speak with you, and discuss all that has happened.

Personally I believe people who sign their posts with comments such as: 'The one who cares' are showing a huge amount of ego, and self importance. To those people I would suggest that they look at their own motivations very closely.

Why is that important? Ultimately everything in life comes down to a decision. Yes or no. You will do something or you will not. You choose to make a decision which has a consequence in some way shape or form.

You choose to take drugs. You choose to commit suicide, you choose to be a positive role model, you choose to be gainfully employed... Whatever it is that you do, you choose to do that. No one forces you, or coerces you.

Even if such coercion was used, it's still YOUR choice to allow that to happen. Nothing happens without your consent, nothing at all. Except...

Except for those who are given no options. Those forced into decisions that they would otherwise not make for themselves. Those individuals forced into programs where they are actively brainwashed by others.

What gives anyone the right to brainwash another? To force them to think in a style and manner of anothers choosing?

See? There's that word once more. Choice. Except it's not yours, it's someone else's. Someone else wants you to do X, when you want to do Y.

Since when is a parent allowed to treat their child as they wish?

If you have a child it does NOT allow you to treat that life form in any manner you desire. Physical abuse is illegal, so why is mental abuse not illegal? *newsflash* it is. The only proviso here is proving that mental abuse.

To those who would subjugate others for their own ends, I would simply say this. Pray to Hell or whatever deity of your choice, that your brainwashing and psychological abuse works, because if it does not?

It will come back to haunt you. And you'll be made to answer for your deeds. If you do not understand what I am speaking about you may wish to find a dictionary and look up a word you seem to misunderstand.

Justice.

What you do to others without their consent is not just, and nothing you say changes that.

People commit crimes, and as a result are judged by society. If you 'intervene' in a family crisis simply because a parent does not like how their child is developing, you are in the wrong. If a child shows homosexual tendencies, it's that childs choice to do so. You cannot intervene, and subjugate because you feel like.

If a child drinks or smokes, then they and the parents can seek counselling. If they still refuse to change it's their CHOICE. The same as it's your choice to go play in traffic or not.

If choice is removed from us, what else is left?

End monologue.
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Offline OverLordd

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« Reply #101 on: June 26, 2005, 01:55:00 AM »
::claps quietly enjoying the monologue::  :smile:
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our walking down a hallway, you turn left, you turn right. BRICK WALL!

GAH!!!!

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Offline Deborah

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« Reply #102 on: July 06, 2005, 10:17:00 PM »
From the article:
The New York Times last month, former interrogators said in interviews that doctors, who may have been either psychiatrists or  
psychologists, counseled them on how to use a detainee's fears and longings to increase distress.

July 6, 2005
Psychologists Warned on Role in Detentions

By NEIL A. LEWIS
WASHINGTON, July 5 - The American Psychological Association, responding to reports that some of its members may have advised officials on how to conduct harsh interrogations of detainees, issued a report Tuesday telling its members of the ethical dangers of such activities.

The report by a group convened to study the ethical boundaries for psychologists at places like the detainment center at Guantánamo Bay,  
Cuba, concluded that it was acceptable to act as behavioral consultants to interrogators of the prisoners from Afghanistan who are held there.

The report said the psychologists should not use a detainee's medical information "to the detriment and safety of an individual's well-
being." It also said that psychologists serving as consultants to interrogations involving national security should be "mindful of factors unique to these roles and contexts that require special ethical consideration."

The report thus appears to avoid explicit answers to questions as to whether psychologists may  advise interrogators on how to increase stress on detainees to make them more cooperative if the advice is not based on medical files but only on observation of the detainees.

The report comes after accounts from former interrogators at Guantánamo who said that doctors had advised them on how to "break" the detainees and make them more cooperative. In an article in The New York Times last month, former interrogators said in interviews that doctors, who may have been either psychiatrists or  
psychologists, counseled them on how to use a detainee's fears and longings to increase distress. One example was taking advantage of a  
prisoner's fear of the dark, which was known from his medical records.

The report, which has been formally adopted by the organization, comes as some American lawyers who are representing detainees have begun to gather the names of the military doctors who have served as part of Behavioral Science Consultation Teams at Guantánamo. The teams, which are known informally as biscuit teams, were typically  
composed of a psychologist, a psychiatrist and a medical assistant.

The purpose of finding out the doctors' names, the lawyers say, is to bring ethics complaints against them before civilian professional  
ethics boards in their home states.

The task force that produced the report by the American Psychological Association included military psychologists, among them an officer  
who helps run the Army's psychological warfare program at Fort Bragg, N.C.

The report was prepared when the group's officials said they realized that their ethics codes did not explicitly address the issue. At the same time, officials of the American Psychiatric Association said there was no doubt that its members may not ethically engage in the  
kind of behavior described by the former interrogators.

The report said that psychologists may not engage in torture or cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment. But in seeming to refer to the situations reported at Guantánamo, which might fall short of torture or cruel treatment, it said only that they "require special ethical consideration."

Leonard S. Rubenstein, executive director of Physicians for Human Rights, said the report is not explicit enough in setting ethical  
boundaries.

"It says psychologists shouldn't engage in torture, but we know that rhetoric like that is not effective," he said. "In view of what has  
happened at places like Guantánamo, we need clarity, and what's lacking here is an explicit commitment not to participate in coercive  
interrogations."

Copyright 2005 The New York Times
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/06/politics/06gitmo.html?
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #103 on: July 06, 2005, 11:10:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-07-06 19:17:00, Deborah wrote:

doctors had advised them on how to "break" the detainees and make them more cooperative.


Schwartz? Riddel? Newton? DuPont? Who are we talking about here?

An Animated Cartoon Theology:
1. People are animals.
2. The body is mortal and subject to incredible pain.
3. Life is antagonistic to the living.
4. The flesh can be sawed, crushed, frozen, stretched, burned, bombed, and plucked for music.
5. The dumb are abused by the smart and the smart destroyed by their own cunning.
6. The small are tortured by the large and the large destroyed by their own momentum.
7. We are able to walk on air, but only as long as our illusion supports us.
-- E. L. Doctorow "The Book of Daniel"

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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #104 on: July 06, 2005, 11:33:00 PM »
At times like these, when ppl laugh at the news and take the comics seriously, it might be wise to look to fiction for insight. Go and rent a copy of Stephen King's Carrie for an angle on social pressure and shame to which we all can relate. (That's why it was a bestseller and then a blockbuster movie)

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