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Author Topic: The Great Mystery of the Final Days  (Read 14415 times)

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Offline GregFL

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The Great Mystery of the Final Days
« Reply #15 on: June 20, 2005, 03:44:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-06-20 09:51:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Greg would you like to give us the dirt on your whole entire family.  I think not.  Some things are left better unsaid.  It involves illness and greed all the typical ingredients found in most all american families.  "



This was supposedly "our family". I think this is the very least gift that someone that knows could give back...a rundown on why "the family" split up.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #16 on: June 20, 2005, 03:54:00 PM »
Once upon a time blah blah blah- yada yadda yadda .
Hopefully everyone lived happily ever after.
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Offline Stripe

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The Great Mystery of the Final Days
« Reply #17 on: June 20, 2005, 04:16:00 PM »
Hey 80's guy,

I noticed from re-reading your post that the programmers expected you to use the old Idon'twannatalktoyou routine to deal with the aftermath of their problem.  

What that proves to me is that really none of what they attempted to program into us was useful in real world situations. Programmers have proved that it's easy to live life when you refuse to confront the problems and leave things unsaid.  Not easier for us, but surely easier for them.

I know how hard it was for me to tow that line between the age of 15 and 17 and not have contact with the druggies - which under seed definitons was practically everyone else in the world.  I can't imagine what it must have been like, as an adult, to be expected to suddenly cut your friends out of your life - and to then find out it was all misguided loyalty.  As a youngster, I did it so that I could get out of that place.  But to have gone through that as an adult must have been really difficult. More power to you.

I hope someday we do get the responses we justly deserve - but I'm not holding my breath.
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The person who stands up and says, ``This is stupid,\'\' either is asked to `behave\' or, worse, is greeted with a cheerful ``Yes, we know! Isn\'t it terrific ?\'\' -- Frank Zappa

Offline Stripe

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The Great Mystery of the Final Days
« Reply #18 on: June 20, 2005, 04:25:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-06-20 12:54:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Once upon a time blah blah blah- yada yadda yadda .

Hopefully everyone lived happily ever after."


What a nice, thoughtful reply Anon. Tell your programmers I personally said thanks. But you didn't come up with that all on your own, did you?[ This Message was edited by: Stripe on 2005-06-20 13:27 ]
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The person who stands up and says, ``This is stupid,\'\' either is asked to `behave\' or, worse, is greeted with a cheerful ``Yes, we know! Isn\'t it terrific ?\'\' -- Frank Zappa

Offline GregFL

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The Great Mystery of the Final Days
« Reply #19 on: June 20, 2005, 06:06:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-06-20 12:54:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Once upon a time blah blah blah- yada yadda yadda .

Hopefully everyone lived happily ever after."


your a nut


but a good nut!


 ::bigsmilebounce::


 :grin:
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Offline marshall

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The Great Mystery of the Final Days
« Reply #20 on: June 21, 2005, 12:45:00 AM »
"Some things are left better unsaid."

Reading this, I can picture a newcomer being asked to stand up and relate / confess all of the drugs, crimes, selfish actions...all the dirt, real or imagined, in front of the group. Staff awaits the reply and the newcomer responds with; "Some things are better left unsaid."  :lol: That response would have gone over really well, I'm sure.
or

Q. "Have you been fantasizing & getting into your head again?"
A. "That's not important."

Q. "How many of you have lied or stolen"?
A. " Uh, I'd rather not air my dirty laundry in public."

Better left unsaid...better for whom?
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Truth, being limitless, unconditioned, unapproachable by any path whatsoever, cannot be organized; nor should any organization be formed to lead or to coerce people along any particular path. You must climb towards the Truth. It cannot be \'stepped down\'

Offline Anonymous

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The Great Mystery of the Final Days
« Reply #21 on: June 21, 2005, 08:11:00 AM »
Yep stripe I cudn't possibly of thunk that up all by my self.  I'm too ignurent fur that.

I asked my programers they thunked it up by their own selves and wrote it real big so I could repete it. ::bigsmilebounce::


Greg, I like you too.  ::bigsmilebounce::
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Offline 80's Guy

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« Reply #22 on: June 21, 2005, 10:47:00 AM »
Quote
On 2005-06-20 10:59:00, Stripe wrote:


On 2005-06-20 09:51:00,
I think it's tragically ironic that the programmers who demanded honesty are thoroughly incapable of demonstrating such traits in the REAL world.
Maybe we give them far too much credit for character traits they are simply incapable of possessing or understanding.  Maybe we expect too much because our journeys have taught us lessons about this past that the programers could never understand.  When life gets  difficult, it is much easier to leave the painful things unsaid and unacknowledged.  But easy does not equate with right.  Hey! That sure is one big-ass white elephant in the room, don't you think?





I agree completely with Stripe. Honesty was a one way streeet at that place, and it was not just staff or higher up's who were allowed to preserve their silence. Many who were held in high regard by those in power were awarded the luxury of silence when it came to personal mistakes that had negatively affected other people in ways that went way beyond any mistakes I was confessing in the group.

It was amazing how we were kept in our place by the same people that were SILENT about their own shortcomings. It was only after being forced to admit or look like a total fool that they coughed up the censored version of, "Well, I haven't been perfect either." Of course, that is better than saying nothing at all when you and the few followers you have left are staring at the same "white elephant" in the same small room.  

There is no way that those people (who essentially were strangers as far as I am concerned today) ever took the time to stop talking--to listen--about themselves and got to know me inside. Instead, they knew how to blow their own horns, but ironically, as Stripe said, many of them were incapable of using some of the new agey ideas they professed to  :wave: find concrete solutions to their real problems, in the REAL world  :wave: . If they had been able to find effective answers that would have solved (as other humnan beings have to solve on a daily basis) the serious issues that were bringing that group to an end (after all, they were as close as "family"). However, they did not have the tools ncessary to really solve real problems as informed, intelligent human beings.  They could not function as balanced, independent thinkers that make decisions based on THE TRUTH. Plain and simple, they cannot be HONEST IN THE REAL WORLD--supposedly, THE FIRST AND MOST IMPORTANT RULE. The results are individuals, who are skewed in their thinking and refuse to deal with the real problems that they have helped to create.


Many, if not almost all of those people, that I wasted(?) so many years of my life with have little to say beyond a superficial smile because anything beyond that is considered a "problem" that is "better left unsaid." And as far as I am concerened, it is they who needed real help, perhaps real counseling or therapy to learn how to deal with everyday isssues, such as problems in marriages, friendships, relationships, career, etc. Just as I have needed in my life and maybe someday I will find myself in a place where I can benefit from real help. Instead decisions at that place were made based on FEAR, INSECURITY, GREED, and POWER.

By the way, all of these are emotions thast I have felt and acted on many times in my own life, but have had to either confess to in front of a crowded warehouse full of strangers (as Greg put it)or learned to deal with them falling on my face over and over again. But I am no longer afraid of feeling because I realize more than ever that the "happiness" I claimed to feel for all those years was really a numbing of authentic feelings: I forgot what it was to really feel: hurt, loneliness, regret, passion, shame, embarassment, love, selfishness, etc, . . Because I was taught for many years that all of these were inferior to something called "happiness," which looked like a fearful smile plastered on my face, wondering when would be the next time I was going to be told that I was not good enough.


I have no resentments, but I refuse to beleive that there is anything wrong with expecting truth from people, on all sides, regarding a significant period of my life when I was also there for them for a "very long, long ride."
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Offline Stripe

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The Great Mystery of the Final Days
« Reply #23 on: June 21, 2005, 02:07:00 PM »
Hey Anon,

Here's lesson I learned from my dear old dad...
a  hit dog always hollers.

an fer most folks its spelt "coodena"
 :smile:

[ This Message was edited by: Stripe on 2005-06-21 12:05 ]
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The person who stands up and says, ``This is stupid,\'\' either is asked to `behave\' or, worse, is greeted with a cheerful ``Yes, we know! Isn\'t it terrific ?\'\' -- Frank Zappa

Offline Stripe

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The Great Mystery of the Final Days
« Reply #24 on: June 21, 2005, 03:00:00 PM »
80's guy,

I sent you a Private Message.

Stripe
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The person who stands up and says, ``This is stupid,\'\' either is asked to `behave\' or, worse, is greeted with a cheerful ``Yes, we know! Isn\'t it terrific ?\'\' -- Frank Zappa

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #25 on: June 21, 2005, 03:08:00 PM »
Here's a lesson I learned from my dear old Dad may he rest in peace...
You give me the red ass.
 Oh Ya, ::rocker::  sorry it really wasn't a lesson it was more of a saying that I heard quite often durring my teen years. ::kma::  ::kma::
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Offline Antigen

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The Great Mystery of the Final Days
« Reply #26 on: June 21, 2005, 04:15:00 PM »
Whenever I got called on to do Honesty in Rules rap, I used to say "Honesty, the first and most impotent rule." Never got called on it, either. It was just my own inside joke.

All our liberties are due to men who, when their conscience has compelled them, have broken the laws of the land.
--William Kingdon Clifford

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"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
~ Crosby Stills Nash & Young, Sweet Judy Blue Eyes

Offline cleveland

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The Great Mystery of the Final Days
« Reply #27 on: June 21, 2005, 04:27:00 PM »
People and groups of people who demand one-way honesty will always tend to abuse this privilege. the Seed expression - 'That's not important' is right up there with 'Do as I say, not as I do' and 'This is for your own good' as sure-fire bullshit red flags.

Institutions, goverments and organizations that I want to be involved with are open, transparent and solicit the opinions of all involved. Wait a minute - like this forum!

Bravo, 80s guy. Keep writing. Someday we'll meet at a Seed reunion!

PS - Stripe, I love ya but I hate it when you say, the programmers. Us and them? You know, I wanted to help others and thought I was doing the right thing. I bought in - I guess I was a programmer too - the Seed couldn't make it without the Rank and File. Did anyone, from Art on down, not think that they were doing good?
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ally Gator

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #28 on: June 21, 2005, 04:28:00 PM »
so clever
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #29 on: June 21, 2005, 04:31:00 PM »
sorry wally I was saying that to Antigen.
but I do think you are pretty clever too.


or Antigen should I say Wally is pretty Cleaver.
get it Wally Cleaver.  you know like beaver cleaver. :rofl:
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