Lesson from RTCs

[RN on Board]

Children in RTC's do have rights - but those rights are circumvented and children are abused daily. The only time we hear about it is when one of them dies. Surely there were others treated with the same brutality and negligence - they just lived to tell. Whenever a child dies we hear the same things - "we thought they were faking it" or " they were totally out of control and we had to do this for our safety - yada yada."

Because children in RTC's are cut off from the outside world this type of institutional abuse with continue.  All must demand that RTC's have pay phone, daily visitation hours and phone hours. All children must be allowed to see and talk to parents and family.  This is not only therapeutic but necessary.

[Anonymous]

Academy at Swift River yet another non licensed school in MA we have written to the state they have been in there and cannot or have not been able to prove they meet the standard for licensing - if someone has information on them especially if they know kids are there with IEP's please tell me I would be happy to pass it along to the right folks, we are trying.  Dewey another unlicensed program that does not fit the criteria for licensing.  The others well Castle is a pretty good program by most standards when you look across the country, they are licensed and so is Stetson.  Cold Springs is not a MA school so I cannot comment.  The licensed programs as a matter of fact both Castle and Stetson are not only licensed through the Office for Child Care Services but also 766 Approved meaning they are approved as a Residential School by the MA Department of Education  all the licensing standards from OCCS are at http://www.qualitychildcare.org check them out not the best but higher than most states and again.  They do not license Residential Treatment Centers in MA they license and approve Residential Schools, that are paid for by School Districts, some parents pay private, some are paid for by the Mental Health State Agency here, and some are paid through the Child Welfare Department or even our Department of Youth Services (Detention).  NO RESIDENTIAL TREATMENT CENTERS.
PS until you know don't try to knock me down, I have the knowledge about MA I live and breath this stuff - trust me I am on top of it.

[Anonymous]

Forgot Harbor has gone through it's share of troubles but is on the right path new management etc.  and we work for keeping kids at home, we provide those resources and information, as a matter of fact I sat in meetings for two years straight 4 days a week to change the way our child welfare agency helps children and families to keeping kids at home, out of residential and providing REAL Wrap Around Services, Family Centered, Family Driven, and that Residential Schools and or Group Home placements should be the last very last resort.
So until you have a clue and are out their busting your XXX daily instead of posting and complaining on a board that very few who care (there are people who do care and I understand all of your passion which is why I come here from time to tim)do not assume things.  I know that some of you have had terrible times and experiences, so instead of just posting go do what I did and try to make a difference at least.  Get out there like I did.  And no I didn't have a single hand in Desisto it was a bunch of folks - it started from my letter of complaint of them not being licensed by the state but they sunk their own grave here in MA.  You all can be angry at the world but that doesn't change things, and before you cut your parents down, know (maybe not all of them) but in some cases they are just doing the best they can do, maybe their were no other options put on the table for them.  Go bash the Ed Consultants and the websites that post Coldsprings on them.  Go after them and work with people like me who really do care a lot.
Andrea

[Anonymous]

And Deborah I am not ignorant at all as a matter of fact in Texas the programs are horrific worse than in MA at least I made a difference and am helping some very wonderful parents who want the same their, their rights for their children different alternatives.  So Deborah what are you doing in Texas if you know so much how come I have to help from MA to make the changes, ignorant not at all, you know nothing about MA and obviously not Texas either or you would be doing something about it.

[Timoclea]

Well, if you understand about Swift River, you can't be all bad.

I had a friend sent there and she had to smuggle in a CD of e-books to have books to read.  What kind of "school" thinks it's a good idea to force a child not to read?

Although they *did* let her have some books I sent her for Christmas.  They were the only things anyone sent that got through, and those only because they were on an "approved" list her flaky mother had given  and I sent them completely anonymously.

But I snuck in "A Handmaid's Tale" and Victor Frankl's "Man's Search for Meaning."

Not happy books, but *great* for their wisdom about surviving mind control.

Timoclea

Faith means not wanting to know what is true.
--Freidrich Nietzsche, German philosopher

[Antigen]

Andrea, Deb's a good researcher. I think it's worthy of debate whether your direct efforts are more or less valuable than her research efforts. Drop the sanctimony, ok?

We're all burned and smartened up here, those who hang around. I believe you when you say that MA has less trouble w/ overtly abusive manifestations of the troubled parent industry. That's why so many players locate out in the wild west, despite the obvious gold pot in the east.

But overt abuse is easy to identify and condemn. The more subtle mindfuck is harder to describe but, in my view anyway, so much more insidious.

If you're intetested in the topics under discussion here, I assume you want to learn something; either about what we talk about or about your positions on same.

Don't take it personally. Slapping the issues around like a red headed step child is what we do here.

Drug War tells us everyone's body is common property
to be managed by the central government for our own
good, even if it kills us.  This is Communism!
Drug Policy Foundation of Texas

--Bob Ramsey

[Deborah]

Andrea, you wrote, and I responded to:
In MA we do not have RTC's they are Residential Schools.

[Anonymous]

Yes you are right Deb you did write but without any valuable knowledge and again we do not have RTC's we have Residential Schools - furthermore we do not have a troubled teen or a troubled parent industry - although we do have some Ed  Consultants hooked up with one org that I am not happy with at all who do use those terms.  We also have a Commissioner of our Child Welfare Agency that if he was to find any case where a child was transported by handcuff's or other aversive measures their would be HXX to pay - and he is a Man of his word.  You have a huge problem out west but be assured especially in Texas that Parents are being educated in this area and how to fight for the changes we have made.  I frankly do not come here everyday and nor do I post everyday I work and I go out their and make the changes - complaining here does no good - frankly few are watching who really care or who really can and are able to make the move to make change.  I also would add that I truly understand that folks have been traumatized by past experiences in their lives - posting here may be a relief but truly is not healing.  Also I have learned that parents who are having trouble with a child or teen that possibly does have a disability or not do not come here for advice at all.  This is a great way for exposing the wrongs I check the site enough to see if their is anything on the radar screen that needs to be passed along to others who can make change and try to do so.  To questions others honesty and knowledge is offensive especially when one has been doing this for years and has made positive changes, which makes me question the verasity (spell check prolly) of the posters and their knowledge.  So the point being, if you have no clue which I believe some do not have, or don't have your facts - be careful on how you question people's posts you know you always don't have to be advesarial in order to work with others you need to develop new strategies or you will go unheard.
I will not defend myself any longer on this forum or my committment to children and families, or to the children who are in Residential Placements - I can lay  my head on my pillow at night knowing I am doing the right thing, I can think of a few that you should be going after and I am not one of them.

[Anonymous]

There is nothing more that we would like is to prove that unlicensed schools need to be licensed in MA - if anyone ANYONE has information of children with IEP's in these places that are not licensed please let us know also if you know of abuses (not past unfortunetly that is not helpful for the present) they can and should be reported to DSS in MA the Child Welfare Agency.  This is the only way to stop these unlicensed programs; unfortunetly they can't always be stopped proving they take the required amount of special needs students is difficult and I will add much to MA credit the term special needs with OCCS is much broader than elsewhere.  It was done with Desisto a few parents became educated on their rights and children's rights found us and started reporting incidents to the state, then the others came out of the woodwork like flies on fly paper, even former staff.  Residential Schools are for a short term period of time or should be - most of them well the licensed one's in MA don't take your child/teen whose parents just think they are out of control, they turn away a lot of kids and families, these kids are suffering from Mental Health Issues, and Developmental Delay's, most often Addiction is secondary if involved, have been sexually reactive, and or PTSD.  They have lots of differently challenged children but they don't take "parental dumps" per say.  Kids have rights - parents have rights - and we encourage them to work with the programs (you get better information that way and also better outcomes) but never at the expense of health, welfare, safety, or service delivery.  We have many state agencies in place for licensing, oversight, etc. and also use the Protection and Advocacy Agency in MA as well.  It is not perfect or 100% abuse free but we are getting better - had you seen it from 97 - 02 you would have seen kids going home in body bags, rampant sexual abuse, miss medications, unjustified restraints from untrained staff, we are moving towards a 0 restraint model in a lot of places including the psych hospitals.  Again better educated consumers!

[Deborah]

***Yes you are right Deb you did write but without any valuable knowledge and again we do not have RTC's we have Residential Schools - furthermore we do not have a troubled teen or a troubled parent industry - although we do have some Ed Consultants hooked up with one org that I am not happy with at all who do use those terms.

Andrea,
Are you in La-La land? The industry is alive and well in Ma. Where is the breakdown in communication? The programs I listed are RTCs. Call them ?schools? if you like, but they are primarily RTCs, with an academic component. I think it is inaccurate and misleading to refer to RTCs as 'schools'.

Dose the Child Welfare Agency review the records of warehoused children in order to ascertain whether or not they were delivered in handcuffs? I tend to doubt it, because if they aren?t licensed they are considered private corporations with all the right of such.

Complaining? That is typically what people do- check consumer products blogs. It?s part and parcel of sharing one?s experience. If I recall, you shared your experience here. I can?t imagine that you?ll convince anyone that doing so does ?no good?. Obviously you contradict yourself when you say, ?This is a great way for exposing the wrongs I check the site enough to see if their is anything on the radar screen that needs to be passed along to others who can make change and try to do so.

I think you should let others decide what gives them ?relief? and ?healing?. Talking about one?s experience can be very healing, same thing that happens in therapy. And to have others validate one?s experience can be further healing, since for many that has not been the case until they found other survivors. Many, like my sons do not trust therapists due to their experience. Five years later, my older son is just warming to the idea of seeking either a therapist or support group.

You said, ?Also I have learned that parents who are having trouble with a child or teen that possibly does have a disability or not do not come here for advice at all.?
That?s a pretty broad comment there. How have you learned this? I don?t doubt that some parents who have decided to warehouse their child may steer clear of survivor sites to avoid the discomfort it might cause, but I feel your comment in general, is inaccurate.

?To questions others honesty and knowledge is offensive?
Huh?  Are you suggesting that readers should take your word at face value? That you are incapable of making a mistake or having your own agenda?
I can?t speak for others, but I?m not ?going after you?. If you weren?t so defensive, and desperately needing validation, you?d see it as an opportunity to answer questions posed to you which could possibly further your cause.
I will continue to question your comment that there are no RTCs in Ma. Why would you want people to believe that? I think the question has merit and deserves an answer. I personally would like to know if you consider all RTCs to be ?schools? and not ?treatment? warehouses.

[Antigen]

Andrea, do you still list or recomend Elan as an approved school?

A lot of the more troubled RTCs out west are just lately reinventing themselves as "schools". That's because Utah has just passed legislation strictly regulating RTCs. So now we don't say RTC, we say school. But nothing has changed.

And this is such an old and tired song and dance. Way back in the late `70's or early `80's, Florida started enforcing foster home regulations on The Seed and Straight and LIFE. Know how they solved that problem? They made us all quit saying "foster home" and start saying "host home" instead. Brilliant!  :roll: Not!

Oh, and BTW, I know of several parents who have dropped in here looking for info on a particular placement and changed their minds. Never mind the ones who have gone and gotten their kids out after placing them and then looking around for more info than they are allowed on the program sponsored forums.

Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.
--John Adams

[Anonymous]

We seem to get a parent, what, about once a month?

But any parent who pulls their kid from a really bad place is a small victory.

At least MA is making a serious effort to make it harder for the bad places to operate.  It's not "enough"---but it's more than a lot of states are doing.

If Utah, Missouri, Idaho, and Montana (forex) started acting like MA tomorrow, there would be a lot of wailing and gnashing of teeth among the program owners and operators.

I don't believe in making the perfect the enemy of the good.  If every state copied MA's model tomorrow, it would help a lot.  It wouldn't fix the problem, but it *would* help.

I can give MA credit for that much.

I think I somewhat agree with Ginger that legislation won't fix the problem.  I just think it can *help*.  I also think that good legislation addressing a problem sometimes makes it much easier to get the word out to consumers.  I agree with Ginger that consumer awareness is vital.  I just think both strategies work together to shrink the problem.

I'm kind of hoping that if enough voters become aware enough of the problem, that the involuntary commitment protections for juveniles will be tightened up to get a lot closer to those for adults.

And that all lockdown juvenile facilities--whether physically locked or locked by remote or inhospitable locations--should be either counted as mental facilities or prisons.  And that all juveniles should have rights against lockdown in a mental facility unless they're dangerous, or a prison facility unless they've been convicted in an adversarial process at which they got a fair trial with representation by counsel.

Well, except for a kid being grounded in his or her own home. :smile:

I don't think anyone of any age should be subject to being locked up in some institution unless they're *fairly* proven dangerous or criminal.

Timoclea

[Anonymous]

ELAN?  What is that where is that?  And again the programs you had listed previously are NOT RTC's they do not meet a standard at least the licensed ones; they may be called that by the ed consultants and out of state folks but they are wrong - they do not have that on their licenses and I have never heard them call themselves RTC either (which doesn't mean they are not saying it).  RTC is an insurance based model.  And for the over 1000 hits a day I get on my site and the hundreds of calls a month no I don' think some of us are doing so badly.  We all can try to help in whatever way he have the capabilities and the tools, some help by just posting here and it is understandable due to their own traumantic history that they are limited as to how they can be helpful to others, everyone has their way of adding information - correct and valid information though is important because none of us have the power or the right to pose personal opinions on parents nor make choices for them - especially in a forum like this - to bash parents or others.

You all keep your days and nights busy by this forum - and I wish you luck.

[Antigen]

If you never hear Aspen hawking RTC, you must not be reading their website.

First hit on a search for 'aspen education massachusetts'

http://www.aspeneducation.com/news-marcus.html
"?What It Takes to Pull Me Through? Gives Parents Insights into Therapeutic Education Programs for Struggling and Under-Achieving Teens" (emphasis added)


Hmm... ASR in MA you say? Do we have any Anonymity Anonymous
return undef() if /coercion/i;

[Deborah]

Andrea,
?What is that where is that??
Do you have selective memory?
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... um=9#95537
Elan is an approved 766 School meaning it met the requirements brought forth by the MA Department of Education, if MA parents have information or anyone that would make our DOE change their mind/status about Elan than please contact them their site is http://www.doe.mass.edu/pqa let me know if you have problems.
Andrea  pfrr

Everyone of those programs will be sold as an RTC or TBS. Doesn?t matter that Mass doesn?t consider them an RTC/TBS unless they are licensed as such. A 766 school?  666 school might be more appropriate, according to survivors.
What ?licenses? do they have? Does the Mass DOE issue ?licenses? or ?accredit? schools/programs academics? It would be highly unusual, for the DOE is concerned with academic accreditation. http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives ... nsing.html

What is your personal opinion of Elan, ASR, John Dewey? Do you refer parents to them because they have 766 status (what you consider ?licensed?) with the state? Accreditation would be second or third on my list of concerns. Have you read their websites? Have the licensing folks read them? Who determined their status to be just ?schools??  And based on what? Do you believe that parents are not sending their ?disabled kid? there to have their behavior ?therapeutically? modified?

Sorry, if that?s too much for you at one whack, but I?d really like to determine how knowledgeable you are on this subject. At this moment you seem a bit confused or ignorant, or perhaps a poor communicator. :