Author Topic: A cult? (Read 45327 times)

Anonymous · « **on:** May 02, 2005, 01:01:00 AM »

If you think the Mormon church is a cult, then you must not know the deffinition of a cult.

cherish wisdom · « **Reply #1 on:** May 02, 2005, 01:24:00 AM »

I've been a member of the Mormon church all of my life and it is not a cult. Being a member of the church has been a great benefit to me and my family. It has enriched our lives in many ways. Church services are similar to those at Christian churchs - there are talks given and after that children and adults go to Sunday School and are taught from the scriptures. We sing and pray and listen - then go home.

We don't handle snakes and dance around or anything weird like that.

...the people have a right to keep and bear arms.
-- Patrick Henry and George Mason Debates

BuzzKill · « **Reply #2 on:** May 02, 2005, 11:46:00 AM »

Mormonism meets every criteria to be defined as a cult.
There Are different definitions of cult - But the LDS meet them all.
An organization is not exempt, Just b/c you are happy while in one, and feel it is doing you good.

There is one major factor in defining a cult, the LDS meet that many others do not - the existence of writings outside of the Bible, considered to be equal to, or even superior to the Bible in authority an value.

The Bible is in disagreement with many Mormon beliefs and practices. The very heart of Mormonism is condemned in the Biblical scriptures as the great lie of Satan himself.

Mormonism teaches that Satan told the truth and the Eve fell up.

What Joseph Smith had to say takes precedence over Moses and Isaiah and Jesus Christ Himself - and THAT alone makes Mormonism a cult. But the LDS meet all the other factors as well.

Anonymous · « **Reply #3 on:** May 02, 2005, 01:47:00 PM »

Quote

Church services are similar to those at Christian churchs

What an odd thing to say. Don't Mormons follow Christ's teaching, and are therefore Christian?

BuzzKill · « **Reply #4 on:** May 02, 2005, 02:15:00 PM »

Don't Mormons follow Christ's teaching, and are therefore Christian?//

No, and therefore No.

Nihilanthic · « **Reply #5 on:** May 02, 2005, 04:28:00 PM »

Buzz, LDS-Anon, sorry to break it to you but the difference between a religion and a cult from a rational perspective is how much history it has and how many people believe in it.

I dont know the exact phase transition from cult to 'religion', but its just an emergent property of what I already said... how long its been around and how many people believe in it.

Anywhere, from where I stand, theres either a god or there is not, and youre all arguing about which men who "had visions" and wrote shit down is right or not. Its rather irrelevant to the reason people are here in the first place.

One VERY relevant thing is the apparent cultural connection between the LDS and Utah businessmen, politics, and the programs, however.

Commerce with all nations, alliance with none, should be our motto.
--Thomas Jefferson

BuzzKill · « **Reply #6 on:** May 02, 2005, 07:20:00 PM »

Well Niles, that is one definition.

Psychologist have another - which has nothing to do with religion or age as a defining factor - but rather how people are controlled.

For Christians, the definition of a cult would be any group that wears a Christian mask; Speaks a kind of Christian language; but teaches a message of salvation and of Jesus Christ that differs from the New Testament message; and which has a book or collection of writings they give greater weight to than the Bible; and which believes its members are the only ones saved.

A Sect would be similar, except the salvation message would be Biblical, and the Jesus they teach would be the Biblical; and they would have no writing considered superior to the Bible - but they have this 'we are an exclusive bunch' mentality, and can be hung up on many trivial factors that really have nothing to do with salvation (legalistic) and controlling.

As a Christian, I tend to refer to groups like WWASP and Amway as 'Cult Like'. But Joseph Smith is the founding "prophet" of a cult by the Christian church's definition.

About this:
from where I stand, theres either a god or there is not, and you're all arguing about which men who "had visions" and wrote shit down is right or not. Its rather irrelevant to the reason people are here in the first place.//

I disagree - But you wouldn't need to be a prophet to guess as much. :smile:

Nihilanthic · « **Reply #7 on:** May 03, 2005, 03:17:00 AM »

I'm not gonna get into an arguemnt over epistemology here, but I am going to assume that you know the basis of your religion is faith alone. Not a rational basis.

Thats fine for your psychological sake,I really have no problem with it, but I do when it comes into a treatment or or scientific setting. You might as well make people believe anything to 'fix' them!

BTW... Penn and Teller ripped the bible to shreds! "Bullshit" is a great show. The bible is just a mix of different cannonical works that the council of Nicea (sp?) decided in committee that would "be" the bible. And dont even get me started on the gnostics and the gospel of thomas. This is all what human beings wrote and argued over what should be in it or not.

Its a bunch of writings from a bunch of people and all of them say they have the best idea of what God or Jesus wants, yet neither of them speak anymore. I think jesus was a great man on earth and would love to have him show up again... but I dont like how all these different sects are thinking they have his true word. When he speaks to me personally, I'll know what he wants. Until then, I'll be a good person on my own accord.

Well, I'll close on this: Jesus set a much better example than his deciples did. I'd rather cut them out of it. Also, the reason I said:

"from where I stand, theres either a god or there is not, and you're all arguing about which men who "had visions" and wrote shit down is right or not. Its rather irrelevant to the reason people are here in the first place.// "

I meant reason people are at fornits, not on earth. All I know rationally is my mom gave birth to me, a lot of people think they know the 'true word' of... whatever, and I want to be a good person now. So, here I am. :wave:

668: The Neighbor of the Beast
--Anonymous Postman

Anonymous · « **Reply #8 on:** May 03, 2005, 07:10:00 AM »

How can you say Jesus was a good man. This is a man that claimed to be God. This is a man that said he was the only way to God. How can you say he was good if he was lying continuously to his audience?

bandit1978 · « **Reply #9 on:** May 03, 2005, 08:43:00 AM »

Most sects of the Christian church is a cult- Mormons and Catholics alike.

They insist that their path is the only way to get to "heaven".

I am amazed at how many Americans compare everything to the bible, like that bible is the absolute and final truth.

I used to believe some of that, but the older and wiser I get, the more I understand the need to study other religions and philosophys, like Hinduism and Buddhism.

I guess that, for Christians, the major obstacle in searching for enlightenment or god or whatever, is that which has them thinking that anything that is not in the bible or related to Jesus is evil.

BuzzKill · « **Reply #10 on:** May 03, 2005, 11:36:00 AM »

Penn and Teller??

Oh, well then, I will ingnore Micha and Moses; Isaiah and Ezekiel; Hosea and Daniel; Zechariah and Jeremiah - because if Peen and Teller say it, I know it Must be So!

// I think jesus was a great man on earth and would love to have him show up again... //

Either Jesus is God, or He is insane. There is no middle ground. If you feel He is good, then you ought to take the time to read what He said. If you think He was insane - why call Him good and say you'd like to see His return? BTW - He will show up again, and one way or another, you will get to see Him.

// is that which has them thinking that anything that is not in the bible or related to Jesus is evil. //

No, No - Not at all. There is much the Bible doesn't speak to that is good. What is evil, is teaching a false Christ - and spreading the great lie.

`

cherish wisdom · « **Reply #11 on:** May 03, 2005, 01:32:00 PM »

I don't think it's necessary to go on and on about religion being a cult. Religious belief is a very personal matter. We can find peace and truth in many different philosophies and religions. To believe or not is a highly personal decision based on many factors involving the human mind, spirit and experience.

I don't feel that the LDS church is cultish. I guess that any church, club or organization could be defined as a cult. To me a cult is a group or organization that controls your life in a negative way. The LDS church has been nothing but postitive. It has given me much comfort and the doctrins have touched my soul and sprit. I also believe in the Bible and have found much comfort when I study it. I believe in a GOD who loves everyone regardless of their religion. A merciful God who is there for all who need inner peace and security.

Cops; you wake `em up you gotta dance with `em. They lead.
-- Jack McNulty

Anonymous · « **Reply #12 on:** May 03, 2005, 03:22:00 PM »

Great! You've made up your own god and religion, just like Joseph Smith!

Anonymous · « **Reply #13 on:** May 03, 2005, 05:00:00 PM »

The difference between a religion and a cult:

How much of your money they want.

How much of your time they want.

How insistent they are on you persuading your friends to join up or cutting them off as bad influences.

How much they encourage members to cut you out of their lives if you change religions or change denominations.

How much they want you to slavishly copy the leader/founder of the religion or cult---Forex, the Christians do want "Christlike" behavior, but nobody insists that you dress like him, eat a 0 AD Middle Eastern diet, learn and speak Aramaic, or carry a cat-o-nine into Jewish Temples to flog bankers. :smile:

Part of the difference between religions and cults are religions have gotten enough time and distance from their founders to *generally* be based on philosophical, moral, and ethical *ideas*---not giving all your time and money to a central charismatic leader who you slavishly ape and obey unquestioningly.

Probably not all religions start out as cults.

The difference between a religion and a cult is all about control.

Timoclea

bandit1978 · « **Reply #14 on:** May 03, 2005, 06:22:00 PM »

"Great, you've made up your own god and religion, just like Joseph Smith"//

As opposed to joining your religion and your god? Don't you understand that she prays to the same god that you do, the same one that the Muslims do?

Your faith is much more similar to theirs than you know, and that is so sad that you cannot appreciate that. You turn it into something negative, negativity NOT being from God (the original source of love), but from the other side ("satan", you would call it. The original source of hate and fear).

That is what is so dangerous about churches.

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Author Topic: A cult? (Read 45327 times)

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