Cross Creek Manor - Report of abuse

[Anonymous]

Niles:  All I've been able to think of to do that is consumer protection laws like we have for cars that are lemons, or like the laws on the meat packing industry, or the laws that govern drugs or medical devices.

We can't keep all people from falling for scams, even this scam where their kids pay the price.

What we can do is use consumer protection laws to reign in the fraud and deception and require truth in advertising---or, more accurately, punish deceptive advertising when it happens.

Long term, the other thing we can do is fund mental health research using good, solid studies that track outcomes.

One thing I can think of off the top, but which some people would be extremely uncomfortable with, would be requiring programs to provide names and addresses of kids leaving the program, which would only be kept up until six months past the kid's 18th birthday and only be used for contacting groups of kids to offer study participation of following outcomes.  If you paid the kids for periodically filling out questionnaires, you could get good participation.  Paying them would make the study expensive, but one landmark study is worth a thousand piles of half-assed crap.

The programs wouldn't like it and would cloak their objections in mouthings about the kids' privacy.  The program parents wouldn't like it.  But if kids between the ages of 18 and 25 or 30 were being paid, and the ones who declined participation had their information deleted and weren't bothered after their first refusal, I think the former program attendees wouldn't mind.

I know at 18 *I* would have participated in a study where I just filled out questionnaires and maybe signed a release for certain personal records, if it meant extra money in my pocket.

I'd do the study by checking juvenile and medical records of the attendees before they attended, along with self-reports of problems, and then using matching for controls.

I'd use several levels of matching and a "lie scale" to separate out program attendees who were exaggerating their self-reports of bad behavior.

I'd also take a smallish but still statistical random sample and use neighbor or community peer reports to rate how "wild" the matched controls were as teens with how "wild" the program attendees were as teens, as perceived by their communities prior to program attendance.

Give the researchers the budget, and the laws to give them access to make their offer to the kids as newly minted legal adults who need the money, and the researchers can *definitely* produce very good data in landmark studies that would definitively show how various programs affected teen outcomes.

Give me enough money and the access and seven years and *I* could tell you.  But, of course, a real research psychologist with a PhD would do so much of a better job that I'd rather you give it to her  :grin:  :grin:  :grin:

Research is important because it's one of the necessary tools to shut down any false claims these places are making and document which kinds of problems these places handle particularly badly.  Or which kind of problems, if any, the places handle well without undue psychiatric casualties.

I say that last just because it's ingrained not to make statements about prospective research and assume the outcome although I am personally skeptical that the facilities provide any long-term positive difference in outcomes for the populations they accept.

Timoclea

[Anonymous]

No. I wasnt that girl. Now my view on AA is very looked down upon on this forum. Many people here look at it like its as bad as the program or something. I do not agree. If anything, AA is a voluntary program. Therefore the people who go there go there because they choose to follow the principals and see it as helpful to them. I think if they like it well good for them. I was in AA for 3 years till I relapsed. I dont go anymore. I simply cant drink, so I dont. When I drink, I always drink too much. Dont know why. But i always do. Im not exagerating about that either. After I slapped my husband in the face after drinking too much, I just stopped. Occasionally now, I will have a glass of wine with dinner or something. But liqour and beer I just cant drink. Ive had alcohol poisining so many times the smell of most liqour makes me nautious. So I just dont do it. But while in AA, I met some super rad people. I am happy I went if just for that. They are usually the people I turn to for the advice I was talking about. They are level headed people who in the case of alcohol, feel AA worksthe best for them to stay quit and I dont judge them for that. I appreciate what it does for them and I live my life differently. Occasionaly my friend Courti will ask me if Id like to go to a meeting wiht him, but he never presses me about it.

I think we dont havce modeation management because, like I said before, we live in America. Most TV zoned out zombie Americans have no idea where to begin with moderation. Dont even know what it means. In Euroup many kids dont view alcohol as this sneaky thing that they want to abuse to be cool. It is normal for a teenager to go to a bar, get a drink wiht a friend, sit in a park and have a beer, and go home. It isnt so much of a "Im going to drink to be cool" thing there.

I dont talk to many people in Aa anymore. Mostly my BF and a couple of others who have still been my friend after I relapsed and stopped going. But the friends i have who are sober (wethere its because of AA or whatever) are really neat people who have alot more of their shit together than the people I know who are not sober. And I dont mean in terms of having a job and keeping it, going to school, ect. I mean in terms of a positive attitude and being generally responsible.

Amanda

[Antigen]

On 2005-05-12 07:00:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Niles:  All I've been able to think of to do that is consumer protection laws like we have for cars that are lemons, or like the laws on the meat packing industry, or the laws that govern drugs or medical devices.

And how have those been workin' out for us? I just paid some woman $450 for a scratch on her `93 Saturn in order to avoide the much higher extortion rate of higher insurance premiums. Trust me, the entire car (including the contents of the trunk and console) is not worth that amount. But the consumers must be protected!

My new car is lots of fun! Automatic everything and all. But I couldn't fix anything on it if I had to. I'd wind up paying some rediculous sum for an entire assembly if a $1.69 electric motor burnt out. I feel so safe!

Meat packing? We're doing fine in that department, if you don't mind the hormones, antibiotics and prices.

TJ had it right; "Enlighten the people generally, and tyranny and oppression of both mind and body will vanish like evil spirits at the dawn of day."
 

Time's fun when you're having flies.
--Kermit the Frog

_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
Drug war POW
Seed `71 - `80
Straight, Sarasota
   10/80 - 10/82
Anonymity Anonymous
return undef() if /coercion/i;

[Deborah]

There have been a number of studies done.

http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives ... een01.html
In a six-month follow-up questionnaire of parents of Provo Canyon School graduates, compiled in June, 1988, almost half the parents pointed to structure as the area most beneficial to their child.

http://additudemag.com/ourkids.asp?DEPT ... &SUB_NO=22
Excerpts:
Research published in the June 2002 issue of the journal Medical Health Services Research says that sending difficult children to a boarding school may not be as effective as keeping the family together and providing a family preservation program. Psychologist Linda A. Wilmshurst of Texas Woman's University compared children enrolled in a residential program with children who stayed at home.
Wilmshurst theorizes that fear may have been a factor. "Removal from the home may have served to exacerbate existing levels of anxiety, resulting in excessive worry about their future, concern about past behavior, and a heightened awareness of the potential of removal again," she said. She also speculates that at least some of the difference may have been caused by interaction with other troubled children at the residential facility.
Almost two-thirds (63%) of the children who stayed with their families showed a reduction of clinical symptoms for AD/HD, general anxiety and depression. Only 11% of the children who participated in the residential program showed similar improvement.
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... =110#31298

Federal study found restraints lack sufficient regulation
http://www.statesman.com/specialreports ... 18gao.html
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... rt=0#24989

http://www.apa.org/journals/amp/amp549755.html
When Interventions Harm: Peer Groups and Problem Behavior
Excerpts (emphasis added):
The Adolescent Transitions Program Study
Group counseling and guided group interaction produced a negative effect on delinquent and antisocial behavior (Berger, Crowley, Gold, Gray, & Arnold, 1975; Feldman, 1992; Gottfredson, 1987; O'Donnell, 1992).
In this article, we tested the hypothesis that high-risk young adolescents potentially escalate their problem behavior in the context of INTERVENTIONS DELIVERED IN PEER GROUPS. To examine this hypothesis, we first invoked studies on adolescent social development, indicating the processes that might account for problem behavior escalation. More at:
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... t=20#49825

And a very revealing study from the Industry showing that programs are most successful with Suicide, Sexual Permissiveness,
and Run Away. Things any good lock-down or prison would be successful with or that parents could accomplish with a good security system.
The key remarks to notice are:
1/3 were negative or unenthusiastic in their approval indicating they didn't feel they got their money's worth, Suggests inappropriate placements are happening too often, Suggesting that programs promised more than they could deliver.
Results of the study at:
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... rt=0#56579

[bandit1978]

Amanda, Where do you live?  I'm just trying to gain some perspective on your story.

[Antigen]

On 2005-05-12 00:04:00, bandit1978 wrote:

 I don't know why Moderation Management is not used in the States.

Moderation Management is used in the US. It's just not offered as a formal program. I use it all the time. When my family said I was drinking too much I just cut back. Simple as anything. Didn't have to go to a single meeting. I just quit going to the beer store so often.

I think the reason why MM is not offered by treatment providers is because the prevailing opinion among those altruistic tyrants who would save us from ourselves is that all substance use is abuse. The crazy bastards have been going after medical doctors w/ a vengence for the last couple of years. They don't even approve of opiates and opioids used for pain management under the care and supervision of licensed medical doctors!

Nightline aired a segment on the war on doctors just last night.

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/PainManage ... 207&page=1

There's so much comedy on television.  Does that cause comedy in the streets?
-- Dick Cavett

[Anonymous]

Guess i forgot to put that in my post. i live in Colorado Springs.

Amanda

[bandit1978]

In most states, medicinal marijuana is not legal (well, I think most states).  But my boyfriend often prescribes (to his pt.s) a pill called "Marinol", which is a medication derived from cannibis or marijuana or whatever.  

Unfortunately, I don't know much about it.  I myself have never administered it to anybody.  But my boyfriend seems to like it. He thinks it is safer than oxycontin and all those drugs, though he would never hesitate to prescribe those drugs if they are needed.  In any event, doctors should be free to decide which medication is appropriate for their patients.

[Anonymous]

Marinol is a scam and doesn't work as well as smoking/eating/ingesting/vaporizing good homegrown marijuana. Pharmaceutical companies know unadultered marijuana is a medicine, they pretend they do something magical to turn it into a medicine. They do nothing, absolutely nothing (other than make it less potent)! They are just trying to get their piece of the pie- it's all about money. If americans weren't so convinced what they are taught by their propogandish government was true, they'd realize there are many medicines that you can grow yourself.

[Anonymous]

Marinol is not exactly a scam.

It works considerably less well than real marijuana, iirc because Marinol is just a way of delivering THC, the primary active chemical in marijuana.

The reason Marinol works less well than marijuana is that some of the medicinal benefits of marijuana are coming from some of the many, many other chemicals in the plant than just the THC.  

And the drug makers haven't identified those, so they can't match the performance of marijuana.

If they could identify the other active chemicals, it's possible that they could make a pill that's safer and more effective than the actual marijuana.

But they don't have it yet.

I think it's good that marinol is legal and doctors can prescribe it.  Patients who have extreme legal scruples can take the marinol, patients who *don't* can take it as a wink, wink, nudge, nudge hint from their doctor that they would benefit by smoking some pot.  And it's a hint that doesn't endanger the doctor's license.

Sure, it would be better if our society was not fucked up about this.  But since it is, Marinol has its place.

Timoclea

[Anonymous]

But what is 'unsafe' about marijuana?? Nothing!

How can they improve upon that?

Medical patients eat and vaporize their meds, there is no damage to lungs at all. I think the problem is our society now believes medicine comes in pills, and no other form. This is ridiculous! It just sets the stage for the limited few to control the masses medication and rape them of serious hard earned money. Money the companies know the customer has to spend in order to stay alive or remain pain free.

It really bothers me you can go into a hospital and get a prescription for addictive opiates, and cannot for marijuana. This is an infringement upon the rights of American's by any definition.

When will citizens start thinking for themselves and not believing the propganda? That is the time the laws will change.

[Antigen]

Sativex has been approved and will be coming soon to a pharmacy near you (if you live in or near Canada, anyway)

http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/hpfb-dgpsa/tpd-d ... cpl_e.html

It's a whole herb extract tested and approved for neuropathic pain. But I'd think it would be good for just about anything the whole herb is good for. Just depends on the strain they use to make it. I'm guessing (by the name) it's heavy on Sativa, light on Indica.

All religions have been made by men.
--Napoleon Bonaparte, French emperor

[bandit1978]

There are tons of medicines that are not available in this country...and don't count in George Bush to encourage the exploration of new meds.  He has done more to prevent the advancement of medicine than anyone I can think of.  

The only thing he is doing to make doctors' practice easier is to attempt to put a cap on medical malpractice claims.  Still, most doctors I know don't find that compelling enough to give Bush their vote.

[Antigen]

Here's a good read on that from an economist's pov:

http://www.fee.org/vnews.php?nid=4725

Today men with risk of heart trouble know to take half an aspirin a day. By 1988 it was well established that aspirin greatly reduces the risk of myocardial occlusion. But for years the FDA forbade aspirin makers from advertising that fact (the FDA still significantly restricts advertising about it). The FDA surely killed tens, and quite possibly hundreds, of thousands of Americans by this restriction alone.[4]

An Animated Cartoon Theology:
1. People are animals.
2. The body is mortal and subject to incredible pain.
3. Life is antagonistic to the living.
4. The flesh can be sawed, crushed, frozen, stretched, burned, bombed, and plucked for music.
5. The dumb are abused by the smart and the smart destroyed by their own cunning.
6. The small are tortured by the large and the large destroyed by their own momentum.
7. We are able to walk on air, but only as long as our illusion supports us.
-- E. L. Doctorow "The Book of Daniel"

_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
Drug war POW
Seed `71 - `80
Straight, Sarasota
   10/80 - 10/82
Anonymity Anonymous
return undef() if /coercion/i;

[BuzzKill]

When my Dad was dying with cancer, his nurse told me she couldn't tell me to buy him pot; she could write for Marinol; but it didn't help - and pot did. But she couldn't tell me to buy him any pot.

Got back in touch with some ole pals after that conversation.