Parents, please consider this

[Anonymous]

On 2005-04-22 16:30:00, Anonymous wrote:

"If they hadn't cared and loved you, they wouldn't have been willing to spend the 30 to 60K a year, they could have just kicked you out of their house."

This is completely ridiculous. Are you suggesting parents without the wherewithal to send their children to programs, don't love them as much? How do you think people who can't afford to send their kid (most of america) deal with 'unruly' teens?

I'd venture over 95% the kids at these programs are white, from middle class to upper class families. If the parents didn't fear the social and legal ramifications from kicking their child out, I'm sure many would simply let them leave. However, this is not acceptable in the society where these kids come from, not to mention the guilt of raising a child who ultimately rejected you. Instead they are sent out of sight, out of mind, to be fixed.

The money issue is something that comes up A LOT with parents. "I spent all my savings, because I love you so much..." The truth is, the parents are terrified, uninformed, gullable and have money to spend. A dangerous combination if you ask me. The flip side of the coin to this argument is the parents are willing to give up everything they worked their entire life for, to keep the child away from home. This is the perspective of the child, pre-seminars of course, they have to train you to be thankful for your parents. They train your mind to think of how terrible you were, and all the terrible experiences you put your parents through. They train you to be thankful for your parents for spending all their money, and being put under so much stress while you were there. This is all BS, and the kid will eventually realize this.

Parents think they can buy there way out of the mess they created themselves. You can't reprogram a teen to be a model citizen during their adolescence, it simply is not possible- unless using extreme and damaging psychological techniques. These programs simply put many kids with normal teenage problems on a road headed to disaster in adulthood. Learning to cope in the real world is much more beneficial. Not escaping to a fantasy land where parents think teens can be re-trained into the teen they always wanted.

Most teens do take responsibility for their actions. We are taught as youngsters the rule of law and consequence. We know when we break the law, we might be punished. What sometimes comes as a surprise to teens, is that you have no civil rights until you reach maturity as far as your parents are concerned- and they can send you to private prison without due process. Kids aren't stupid. They know this is an injustice. They have no advocate, it goes against everything you have ever been taught about fairness and society. Many kids at the facilities will commit terrible crimes, including assault and worse, to simply get put into the legal system. At least you have rights then, or so the argument goes.

Parents, save the money for college. They'll need it then much more, and that will actually help them out.

Parents, why don't YOU take responsibility and help your teen with their problems instead of sending them off to a mind-control factory in hopes they might come home a different person. With 30-60 thousand a year as a budget, I'm sure you won't have any problems coming up with any ideas to improve your situation. Use the money wisely, instead of sending it to a bunch of liars and scam artists. IT IS ALL A SCAM, they want your money and don't provide help or treatment.

[Anonymous]

you know what?  I couldn't even get past the first couple of paragraphs before I needed to respond.

Most parents don't want their kids in prison. Or dead.  Or drug addicts. Believe it or not, most parents do love their children.  Maybe your parents didn't love you.

 Many of these white middle class to upper middle class family parents borrow money to afford help for their children.  We are not a bunch of rich people (yes we have more than many) just throwing money out the window to get their children out of their hair.  How ridiculous.  You have no idea.  My life ended for a year after I sent my son to a program.  My husband and I simply co-existed in order to get by.  It was the choice we made, and I still stand by it.

I am simply saying that parents want what is best for their children, and most would gladly take a bullet for them.  

I did not create a mess that I could not get myself out of.  My child had a problem and was suffering in the public and private school system.  We hired an EC to find a setting where she could thrive as well as get an education.  

Unless you have walked in my shoes, keep your mouth shut.

[Anonymous]

I am simply saying that parents want what is best for their children, and most would gladly take a bullet for them.  



Unless you have walked in my shoes, keep your mouth shut.   "

Maybe one day, because you sent your kid to a fucked up program, you will get the chance.  It's happened before.

Until you've spent a year or more in one of these fucked up teen torture centers, FUCK OFF MOM.

[Anonymous]

On 2005-04-22 18:31:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Unless you have walked in my shoes, keep your mouth shut."

Same to you.

[Anonymous]

On 2005-04-22 18:31:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Most parents don't want their kids in prison. Or dead.  Or drug addicts. Believe it or not, most parents do love their children."

You should realize putting a kid in a WWASP program, will most likely increase the chances of these things happening eventually.

On 2005-04-22 18:31:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Maybe your parents didn't love you."

Classy. Typical program parent. :roll:

[Anonymous]

that is so righteous of you.  I see that you did well for yourself.  Cursing a mom who loves her child.  I pity you.

[69]

On 2005-04-22 18:31:00, Anonymous wrote:

"You have no idea.  My life ended for a year after I sent my son to a program.  My husband and I simply co-existed in order to get by."

::boohoo::

:roll:

[BuzzKill]

Unless you have walked in my shoes, keep your mouth shut//

I've walked in your shoes, and I did the very thing you did in response. I do understand. So I hope you'll not tell me to shut up when I go on to explain - what we did was a mistake.

Speaking for myself, I came to realize it was the program manipulating me with masterful skill. They hooked me and reeled me right in, and then very nearly manipulated the common sense clean out of my head.

They mislead me in very significant ways; and failed to explain many very important factors about the Program.

This is just plain wrong.

I would even call it evil.

I feel they took great advantage of your love for your child; just as they took advantage of me and mine. I feel certain there is a great deal they didn't tell you about the program prior to enrollment; and as you learn about it, if you do, you assume it Must be Lies - or you try desperately to justify it - b/c otherwise, you have to admit you've been suckered by the very people you came to depend upon for help and even salvation. And, worse yet, you sent your child to a place were day to day life is a torment of emotional stress and physical discomfort and even pain.
Facing these facts can be unbearable - So you are all the more easily manipulated by virtue of your willful ignorance.

Wake up.
It past time - Wake up.
Lay off the snooz alarm.

[Nihilanthic]

Ok, lets bring some sense into this thread.

These program parents think taht it was the necessary thing to do if you loved your kid, to spend a fortune and throw them in a program.

They dont realize it was unnecessary almost all the time and potenitally very abusive. They dont realize ANYTHING except taht they HAD to use the program, or they didnt love the kid and the kid would die, bla bla bla.

I'm sick of trying to get through to them, so I wont even try. You all can if you want. Just realize its like talking to a wall to expect them to even understand the possiblity that it was abusive or not necessary.

A little government and a little luck are necessary in life, but only a fool trust either of them
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0679737898/circlofmiamithem' target='_new'> P.J. O'Rourke

[Anonymous]

On 2005-04-22 19:11:00, Nihilanthic wrote:

"I'm sick of trying to get through to them, so I wont even try. You all can if you want. Just realize its like talking to a wall to expect them to even understand the possiblity that it was abusive or not necessary."

Good point.

[Nihilanthic]

I'd rather say a well-stated point than a good one.

Brainwashed parents who are deluded into thinking giving up money and a child to people and not talking to them and making their kid feel helpless is loving and the 'hard thing to do' is a sad, sad, thing.

Truth in matters of religion is simply the opinion that has survived.
--Oscar Wilde

[Antigen]

On 2005-04-22 19:21:00, Nihilanthic wrote:

Brainwashed parents who are deluded into thinking giving up money and a child to people and not talking to them and making their kid feel helpless is loving and the 'hard thing to do' is a sad, sad, thing.

It IS a hard thing to do. And for someone who was raised on penance and punishment, it makes a certain sort of warped sense. Remember that, since Victorian days, the authorities have been telling us to turn a cold shoulder to our infants cries to teach them independence. And they tell us to make happy and carefree when they cry hysterically the first day we drop them at daycare.

"Good" parents suck up the anguish and do what the experts say. It fits. It's not right, it's a huge error. But it fits w/ the core belief in our society that suffering and cash can cover a multitude of evil.

When we contemplate the whole globe as one great dewdrop, striped and dotted with continents and islands, flying through space with all other stars all singing and shining together as one, the whole universe appears as an infinite storm of beauty.
-- John Muir

[Antigen]

On 2005-04-22 13:12:00, Anonymous wrote:

 i dont thin k you all are hearing me. I think the progrma needs reform. I think the program isnt perfect.

Before I read further, let me just say 1 thing. I do hear you! I'm not disregarding what you say. Ashleigh started out from the premis that the Program needs legitimate screening. I agree w/ that. And you've mentioned how the college program was far better than the highschool program, by virtue of spending less time in the Program and more time in the real world. I also agree w/ that.

So then I asked you what about the program should be preserved. There was some back and forth over the lock-down nature of it that went unresolved. I think that would come down to the screening and re-inventing the program to actually deal w/ serious psyche issues.

Now we're talking about how and why the seminars, group raps, isolation and take downs work. As far as I know, that's the rest of the program, isn't it? And some people (myself included) doubt the value of the seminars.

There is not a "fragment" in all nature, for every relative fragment of one thing is a full harmonious unit in itself.
-- John Muir

_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
Drug war POW
Seed `71 - `80
Straight, Sarasota
   10/80 - 10/82
Anonymity Anonymous
return undef() if /coercion/i;

[Antigen]

On 2005-04-22 13:12:00, Anonymous wrote:

P.S. Antigen, did you forget your morning coffee? You seem a little agitated and not so willing to discuss anymore. Have i offended you? OYu seem back to me as the enemy and as the ignorant brainwashed villan. I appreciate your input and would hope you appreciate mine as well. i feel I learned alot forom you. I hope you can consider my post and not get so caught up in the fact that I feel the program was a good tool for me. Ive told oyu again and again it is in tremendous need of reform. Have any ideas as to how to make it more effective? Is there a therapy method oyu have heard of that is more effective?

No, I'm not being critical of you. Just busy today and not much time to read and post. I'm critical of the Program, which is not you. If having been influenced by sophisticated thought reform techniques makes you a villan, than I must be evil too.

I don't think you're exactly drowning in the kool-aid at this point. If you were, you'd view me as pure evil and have stomped off in a huff by now. But I do think that, if we get to a reasonable end to this conversation, you'll conclude as I have; that the only things worth saving about the Program are those elements of it that are not part of the core Program. Stone soup, made w/ manganese.

I could be wrong, but I think I'm not.

The mind is not a vessel to be filled but a fire to be kindled.
-- Plutarch

[Antigen]

On 2005-04-22 14:56:00, Anonymous wrote:

"

One major benefit that cannabis has over SSRIs and similar drugs is the total lack of any long term side effects.

But how can you be sure it is pure?  Unless, of course you grow it yourself. "

Well, unless you move to the west coast and find a very reliable medicinal provider, you can't. The penalties and bust-risk for growing even a couple of plants far outweigh those of getting it from some kid at a highly inflated price. Reversing that disparity would go a LONG way toward taking the crime, corruption and violence out of the MJ market.

Were the government to prescribe to us our medicine and diet, our bodies would be in such keeping as our souls are now. Thus in France the emetic was once forbidden as a medicine, and the potato as an article of food. Government is just as infallible,[sic] too, when it fixes systems in physics. Galileo was sent to the Inquisition for affirming that the earth was a sphere.... It is error alone which needs the support of government. Truth can stand by itself.
http://laissezfairebooks.com/product.cfm?op=view&pid=FF7485&aid=10247' target='_new'>Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia