Author Topic: It is ok to relapse  (Read 28590 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #60 on: March 11, 2005, 08:46:00 AM »
As i said, look what the americans did about one sick cow. canadian economy is utterly dependent on the US. Case closed. I am unwilling to piss off our largest trading partner so a few people can legally consume mind altering substances. Their are no upsides. As far as what marijuana activists tout as a financial boon from legalizing and selling marijuana, this is a farce. If illegal growers produce 7 billion $s worth of product a year, and do it with increasing potency, totally unregulated, who in their right mind would pay for a taxed, meiocre substandard product? People will grow their own or continue to buy from unregulated growers. These growers will not be happy being undercut, or having the government try to tax their product. And what will the legal age be for consumption be? 18? 21? Then the most at risk group for using marijuana, teenagers, will be out of luck if they want pot - oh yeah, those dealers and growers will be out there still, with drastically reduced incomes, except for those exporting to the US, where it will remain illegal. And they will happily supply children.
So, are the current marijuana laws just? No. Believe me I know, and have the record to prove it. But reality is what it is.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #61 on: March 11, 2005, 09:10:00 AM »
Quote
On 2005-03-11 05:46:00, Anonymous wrote:

"As i said, look what the americans did about one sick cow. canadian economy is utterly dependent on the US. Case closed. I am unwilling to piss off our largest trading partner so a few people can legally consume mind altering substances. Their are no upsides. As far as what marijuana activists tout as a financial boon from legalizing and selling marijuana, this is a farce. If illegal growers produce 7 billion $s worth of product a year, and do it with increasing potency, totally unregulated, who in their right mind would pay for a taxed, meiocre substandard product? People will grow their own or continue to buy from unregulated growers. These growers will not be happy being undercut, or having the government try to tax their product. And what will the legal age be for consumption be? 18? 21? Then the most at risk group for using marijuana, teenagers, will be out of luck if they want pot - oh yeah, those dealers and growers will be out there still, with drastically reduced incomes, except for those exporting to the US, where it will remain illegal. And they will happily supply children.

So, are the current marijuana laws just? No. Believe me I know, and have the record to prove it. But reality is what it is. "


Sounds like the battered wife syndrome to me.  Y'know , the woman keeps getting taken to hospital but keps going back because of her dependency.  Shame on you, guy.
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #62 on: March 11, 2005, 06:31:00 PM »
Quote

On 2005-03-11 05:46:00, Anonymous wrote:

I am unwilling to piss off our largest trading partner so a few people can legally consume mind altering substances. Their are no upsides.


What you're leaving out is that those 'few' people who want to smoke or eat pot are going to do it whether it's legal or not. And they're going to keep on doing it for just the reasons that you mention; because it is profitable for the growers and sellers.

When we repealed alcohol prohibition, the quality and purity of the product improved dramatically! No more bathtub gin. And the price came down, too, allowing for a huge tax and regulatory bumper and still providing a much less expensive, higher quality product. No reason to think the laws of economics have any differing opinions on marijuana than they do on the demon rum.

The up side to a regulated trade in marijuana as opposed to the unregulated prohibition policy is that mounties and producers and distributors would not have to be at odds w/ each.

Canada has stood down the US before. You lent us a great deal of help in getting the Mad Monk to quit the Vietnam War. And some of us are grateful for that. I hope Canada won't bow to this round of bullying and I hope Americans will become rightiously indignant over any vindictive, bully tactic that our government might try to use.

A Freudian slip is when you say one thing but mean your mother.

--Anonymous

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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #63 on: March 26, 2005, 04:28:00 AM »
Yes, using drugs is extremely pleasureable, especially the process in getting them. First call the loser dealer that you hope is gonna show up, bitting your nails fiendishly waiting, hoping he will sell you what you want, not rip you off and then running out as few hours layer and repeating the process. Oh what a life to live. I would not trade my worst day for that.

 And it appears that your life is so full of pleasure, spending your time on the internet promoting drug use and how pleasureable it is. It must be brutal having to get high to have pleasure. Grow up, grab a pair and get a fuckin life. Just because your life is a complete and utter failure doesn't give you the right to bash AARC. And even if you do have a job or something going for you, your life must really suck if you hold this bitterness for that long.

So if any struggling graduate wants what this REAL WINNER has, sure it is ok to relapse. You can make great internet buddies!!!!!!
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #64 on: March 26, 2005, 05:05:00 PM »
Wow! I have never had an experience such as you describe. I suppose if I did, I'd have to permanently swear off off whatever substance was involved.

But that's not what we're talking about here. We're talking about Canadians having the freedom to try and improve upon their disastrous US imposed prohibition policies.

Here's the bottom line. I don't care if you agree w/ it or not. It's fairly objective, I think. (BTW, do they still refer to "objective reality" as equivalent to "group/staff's take on things"?)

Nearly all the addicts alive today to stand up at a stepcraft ritual tell their sad, sad talke became addicts under prohibition policy. The drugs you're worried about keeping away from your fellow Canadians are pretty nearly 100% available to anyone who wants them. The same is true in Singapore or Saudi Arabia, where they practice public summary execution, use death squads and chop off limbs in an effort to enforce this policy.

At the same time, under prohibition or not, down' through history, the overwhelming majority of people to whom these same drugs are available do not become addiction, or not so morbidly as to need any kind of formal intervention to kick.

It's your problem, a personal medical and/or psychological problem. Prohibition tries to make it a public problem. It also places LEO in a round room and instructs him to piss in a corner. It does not work, cannot work, never has worked in all of human history. And it's extremely expensive and causes major problems in the process of failing to deliver.

I think you should give it up. I think the results will be reduced crime and violence, better faith among LEO and the people they serve, a better, more efficient and less strained justice system, tax savings, improved safety to users to quality control and access to voluntary treatment of their own chosing.

I think if that happens, the rabid, zealot drug warriors who have lain siege to my beloved homeland for all these years would find themselves unable to defend their policies and maybe we'd stand a better chance of seeing an end to this sorrow south of the 49th.

They used to burn witches. Today we laugh at them. Today we jail people for marijuana. Tomorrow they'll laugh at us.

--Robert "Rosie" Rowbotham

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Offline salsa

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« Reply #65 on: May 05, 2005, 02:04:00 PM »
Joel, u rock!!!  I agree with u 100%!!!

When it comes down to it, all u bashers are really bashing urselves!!!  But hey it's ur life so enjoy ur lack of self-esteem!!!


        Elsa
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Offline TheThrilla

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« Reply #66 on: May 06, 2005, 02:30:00 PM »
I do not bash AARC. I stated that I was better off without it, to put it in easiest terms. That's the truth and proves to be obvious for me everyday that I continue to no longer be a part of the program. People could argue all day about the politics of AARC, but it has worked for some people. What do I mean by worked? Well I guess that could be debated too.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #67 on: May 06, 2005, 03:43:00 PM »
So...when IS it acceptable to not agree with something. When does it NOT mean you are bashing yourself.

Just to disagree does not mean you are being dishonest or that you are being selfish or are about to die from going back to drugs!!


I am so sick of hearing this line...the propaganda that people still spew spew spew
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #68 on: July 05, 2005, 02:39:00 PM »
"The drugs you're worried about keeping away from your fellow Canadians are pretty nearly 100% available to anyone who wants them. The same is true in Singapore or Saudi Arabia, where they practice public summary execution."

I gotta question this, Antigen. While the drug trade and availability is undeniable in many places (an interesting bunch of people on the street trying to make money for their own habit?). While I have never been to Saudi or Singapore I really don't think that it is a comparable scene. Can you substantiate that remark? I'm pretty sure that these reactions are a very effective incentive to not use or traffic.

Personally I don't agree with such measures and can appreciate personal choice. It is a sticky situation. As for my own experience with drugs, it was far from absolutely horrible, but all of a sudden years and years had past and i realized i didn't like who I had become and hadn't really accomplished anything with my life. Also the reasons that I was using were pretty wack.

When I look at our society and the drug culture elements of it, I feel concern. Anti-social and hopless attitudes abound, it doesn't look terribly healthy or positive. Well i'm off to that outsidey place.
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #69 on: July 05, 2005, 03:27:00 PM »
Just check google news occasionally for news on the drug war in various countries. You'll find that, despite barbarically draconian policies and practices, the drug trade lives on. My point is a reductio absurdum; that, even if Americans, Canadians and other 2nd world, industrialized countries were willing to go to those extremes, it still wouldn't work.

Prohibition of any comodity for which there is a steady demand always fails and, in the course of failing, always creates a black market. That's a hard, imutible rule of ecconomics. The more vigorous the enforcement efforts, the broader, more violent and more lucrative the black market.

When I look around at the drug scene today, I'm also concerned. Since our state established an area drug taskforce a couple of years ago, things have predictably gone downhill. Violent crime is up. The local prison is overcrowded w/ former breadwinners sleeping on the floor. They were over budget by a million dollars last year and the media has been silent on that problem since.

And the result here in town, the focus of the effort? The poor users now have to lug their butts all the way to the next town 2 miles away and pay a little more for lower quality product, violence is up, homelessness is up (especially among women and children), police corruption is up and property values continue to stagnate. We're actually missing the housing boom that most of the rest of the country is enjoying. That sucks! I was rather counting on that!

In other words, we have (predictably) all of the problems associated w/ prohibition and none of the promised benefits. That should not be too surprising. That's what always happens.

So, where do you look for a good example? The only good example I know of is our own history. Prior to the New Deal in general and the Harrison Narcotics Act specifically, we had drugs aplenty, freely sold at retail outlets and even through the Sears catalog to anybody w/ a nickle w/o a Rx. At that time, Bayer sold aspirin and heroin for the same price. And we had addicts, to be sure. But we had no drug crime. There were no drug gangs. There were no gnangland shootings or kids used as corriers and snitches.

And, most notably, we had no more nor fewer addicts than we have today. None. No difference at all.

So, why are we doing this again? Why are we funding the drug war in Thailand? Why are we airial spraying reformulated Agent Orange all over Colombia, Peru and Bolivia again? Why are we threatening sanctions against Mexico? Why are we sending DEA thugs to arrest bedridden terminal patients at gunpoint? What are we supposed to accomplish by it all?

If experience is any teacher and our leaders are not total idiots, they must like havning a black market, a booming prison industry, our courts and prisons overwhelmed to the point of collapse and absolutely no benefit to anyone else. Cause that's what we've always gotten from prohibition. I know for a fact that many people have made sure that our governments know this. And yet we persist.

Then again, we're still working that old Manifest Destiny saw all over the planet, too. Maybe they are just hopeless religious zealots and are, therefore, incapable of seeing what they're doing.

I am married, not Buried !
-- Steve Webb

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Offline tommyfromhyde1

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« Reply #70 on: July 05, 2005, 03:43:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-03-11 15:31:00, Antigen wrote:


Canada has stood down the US before. You lent us a great deal of help in getting the Mad Monk to quit the Vietnam War."

Antigen, you forgot the more obvious example of
Canada standing up to the US - prohibition.
Booze remained legal north of the border and
lots of good Canadian..er..rye whisky got
smuggled down here. Did a lot to make the Volsted
Act unworkable.

I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard was not what I meant.



---Richard Nixon

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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #71 on: July 05, 2005, 04:23:00 PM »
Yeah, that's so. And it's also probably worth mentioning that Canada's MJ laws and policies are 1) far more lax than ours and 2) only exist because of pressure from us.

As de dawg chases his tail...

I hold it to be the inalienable right of anybody to go to hell in his own way.
--Robert Frost, American poet

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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #72 on: October 02, 2005, 06:20:00 PM »
You doubt that there was one person on this site that didn't know Andrew Mazur. Your wrong. Knew him better than any of you who sit there and pretend to know him or know what he was about. You all knew shit. He didn't commit suicide. It was a overdose. And it wasn't crack that killed him. Get your shit figured out then you can talk about him. And if you want to sit and talk more shit about him. Call me up and say it to my Face...554-4281
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #73 on: October 06, 2005, 12:47:00 PM »
It is clear to me that the comments of Antigen are spoken from a true person who took a first year class in economics and does not read the paper.  I am not going to get into the workings of the black market debaate, as it does not really matter and is rather complex.  But I would like to talk about some of the other views.  From what I can gather you live the United States and that you believe the lack of a housing boom and rise in homeless people is due to the "prohibition" problem.  I would personally think that it could have something to do with the fact that you live in a country that has a government with the worst economic policy since the 60's and with the rising cost of oil and gas more jobs, that are in sectors that rely on these as an input, are being slashed.  You have a government that is on the brink of bankruptcy and the only real solution for now is possibly to send the country into a recession.  Also there are a lot of companies that are leaving the states for there are better markets to be in.  China and Europe are two examples.  Due to this there are less jobs and more people desperate for money to live.  This in turn causes more illegal activity and thus a strain on the legal system.  Unfortunately it is, in the opinion of almost every "expert", the doing of the economic state of your country, not drug enforcement, that is causing these problems.  As for the rise in gang violence.  The above mentioned is a problem.  But there are others that are much more potent then drugs and alcohol.  The lack of education for members of society joining gangs.  It is proven that a youth is more likely to persue and education if they believe it can be attained.  Unfortunately there are many that are part of society that are not given this opportunity.  Either by parents not being a positive influencs or by a system that does discriminate.  This then leads into the next major contributor and that is societies glorification of "gang" members.  Rap stars are rewarded for living this way, hollywoods portrayl of the life etc...  
There are many problems in society today.  It is a closed minded view to blame this on drug enforcement.  This is part of the problem, but it is no were near the top of the list.  And there are much bigger issues to tend to.  If you want to look at history, take a look at Lydon Johnsons Presidency and the economic policies he needed to implement in order to correct the path of the country.  Take a look at the present and near future and the rise of China as the new super power and the fall of the US.  Not the fault of the "Drug War", in my opinion.

Have a nice day.
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Offline Amber_Rae

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« Reply #74 on: November 29, 2005, 01:08:00 AM »
I would just like to respond Andrew Mazur was one of my best friends befor and during to here people talk shit about him is wrong if there was any one to ask how Andrew felt, it would be me we were closer than anyone. Andrew was a good person and everyone makes mistakes, its when you think you have nothing and feel casted away is when things go wrong. If any one has anything to say about Andrew email me[ This Message was edited by: Amber_Rae on 2005-11-28 22:13 ]
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